Glasgow North

[scottystitch]

To help deal with a health problem or two, I find it very therapeutic (and enjoyable) to work on track plans within the Anyrail software (other track planning programs are available), primarily in N gauge. The most satisfying are real locations, with track plans derived from old maps.

 

As a discussion promotion, I present, therefore, a code 55 rendition of the once proposed replacement for Queen Street High Level and Buchanan Street stations in Glasgow. 

 

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/british-transport-commission_passenger-transport-in-glasgow-and-district_1951_proposed-new-north-station_5396_2481_300.jpg

 

The reference map is hard to discern at times, so some licence has been taken with regard to some of the crossings and turnouts. Also there are limitations when working with RTP track. What I'm getting at is, I know it isn't 100% accurate, but its a start and since it was never built, who's to say what it would have looked like anyway?

 

I've used the canal aquaduct as a scenic break, so everything to the right of that is "rest of the world" and doesn't have to be 100% plausible.

 

As for who would build it? It's rather large (the canvas is 17.5ft by 9.5ft - the size of my garage) so perhaps a large club or group, similar to those who develop and exhibit Liverpool Lime street.

 

Anyway, it's not a serious proposal, I just enjoyed drafting it with a view to promoting (constructive, and non-judgmental) discussion.

 

Hopefully some of you will find it interesting.

[kevinlms]

That track plan looks like a vastly enlarged version of Bolton's Great Moor Street. There is a series of books published on the author's 7mm version of it.

[airighdrishaig]

All very interesting. What platform would the Aberfoyle train leave from I wonder? When the planners were at it, it's a wonder they didn't go for a sort of Superwaverley for Glasgow.

[Legend]

That is very interesting. I've never heard of this proposal before and I've got the book "Glasgow Stations". I know it was only a proposal but you would have thought it would have been mentioned. Like OP I'm fascinated by this sort of stuff. The railways around Glasgow were, and still are to some extent, fascinating. From the original diagram it looks like the plan , at least was well developed. I'm supposing it relates to post 1923 period as reference is to LNER and LMS . Would have been a great station if built. As you say it's a bit of fun, but would be a great layout to operate .

 

Thanks for posting

 

Édit: actually just realised it says former LNER and LMSR , so it looks like this was a proposal after 1948 . Fascinating

Edited August 30, 2017 by Legend

[scottystitch]

That is very interesting. I've never heard of this proposal before and I've got the book "Glasgow Stations". I know it was only a proposal but you would have thought it would have been mentioned. Like OP I'm fascinated by this sort of stuff. The railways around Glasgow were, and still are to some extent, fascinating. From the original diagram it looks like the plan , at least was well developed. I'm supposing it relates to post 1923 period as reference is to LNER and LMS . Would have been a great station if built. As you say it's a bit of fun, but would be a great layout to operate .

 

Thanks for posting

 

Édit: actually just realised it says former LNER and LMSR , so it looks like this was a proposal after 1948 . Fascinating

I am glad it is of some interest.

 

It was a post-war proposal, 1951 in fact, discussed here on the Urban Glasgow Ffrum:

 

http://urbanglasgow.co.uk/archive/glasgow-north-station__o_t__t_1055.html

 

and mentioned here on Hidden Glasgow forum:

 

http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1986

[Joseph_Pestell]

Plenty of references to it on the web and indeed a fascinating subject for a layout.

 

I think that, as planned, it is a bit too "perfect" to make for a model that would be interesting to look at and to operate - as well as taking up too much space in 4mm. I would be inclined to get rid of the turntable and carriage sidings, reduce the number of platforms (modernisation plan would have intervened by the time it got built) and not allow access to all platforms from both routes.

 

I did draw up a plan. If I can find it, I will post here.

 

PS: I think that we have already had a Glasgow North thread on RMWeb.

[Legend]

I am glad it is of some interest.

 

It was a post-war proposal, 1951 in fact, discussed here on the Urban Glasgow Ffrum:

 

http://urbanglasgow.co.uk/archive/glasgow-north-station__o_t__t_1055.html

 

and mentioned here on Hidden Glasgow forum:

 

http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1986

Thanks again for the links . I'm wondering what type of station it would have been. 1950s architecture not too common on train stations, the 1960s Euston and WCML Stations were stark and austere. I doubt we would have got an overall roof , probably just some canopies. So maybe on reflection we were better off retaining Queen Street . Certainly glad on the Southern Glasgow scheme we didn't lose the gem that is Glasgow Central. St Enoch was a fine station too.

 

I don't recall seeing a thread on this before ,but I might have missed it.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think the plans show clearly that it was to be platform canopies not an overall roof. Interesting arrangement for the various passenger buildings and with a very large concourse for vehicle access.

Post-war economics mean that there is not really any such thing as 1950s architecture on a wide scale. Coventry and Guildford cathedrals are about the only significant 1950s buildings that I can think of and Guildford may have been designed pre-war.

Most likely any buildings would have been in a modified 1930's style.

For a model, it might be more interesting to assume that Buchanan St had been rebuilt earlier (it was always a collection of shabby "temporary" buildings) and then extended to accommodate the Queen St HL traffic.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Joseph_Pestell

[Joseph_Pestell]

Don't know what happened there! Anyway, I was editing to say that Guildford was indeed 1930s. Construction started 1936 but not finished until late 1950s.

[Legend]

Maybe a bit of Art Deco, like Girvan Station , rebuilt in the 1930s . Ironically Triang Hornbys modern station range in the 60s with platform canopies might actually have been suitable

[scottystitch]

I have drawn up a reduced "version", based tentatively on the Glasgow North Premise. Platform faces number 8, plus motorail,  rather than the 14 of the real plan and there are next to no concessions for steam locomotives, save for water facilities. A through route bypasses the station and heads underground via Queen Street low level. This is mainly for freight, but some cross city passenger trains use it.

 

In my version, Queen Street is still open, but only for Edinburgh and some northern suburb/local services.

 

My Glasgow North has taken some of the long distance, cross border traffic from Central (such as the WCML Scots) and Queen Street (Queen of Scots, North Briton), as well as serving Stirling, Aberdeen, Perth, Dundee, Inverness, etc.

 

It does what I want it to do and is here for perusal/interest, rather than critique.

 

https://flic.kr/p/Y1GqUy

 

I envisage a low relief hotel/station building, platform canopies, pedestrian subway on at least some of the platform extreme ends, and roadway access to the motorail platforms over the top of the sub surface lines.

Edited August 31, 2017 by scottystitch

[scottystitch]

 

For a model, it might be more interesting to assume that Buchanan St had been rebuilt earlier (it was always a collection of shabby "temporary" buildings) and then extended to accommodate the Queen St HL traffic.

 

Exactly the route I have gone down, Buchanan Street being considered having been damaged by a Heinkel (other bombers were available) crew, unable to find Clydebank, perhaps............

Edited August 31, 2017 by scottystitch

[Mad McCann]

It might be helpful to look at some re-modelled German stations of the postwar era to give some basic pointers. You really want to create a feel of the then current modernity in the station design. Perhaps a concourse frontage modelled on that of Renfrew Airport?

 

 https://goo.gl/images/ZiJdTZ

 

D.

[Bino]

My interests are the Glasgow to Aberdeen mid Sixties route and so I looked at Glasgow North some years ago when planning a layout. Limited for space I would have truncated the carriage sidings but tried to maintain the number of platforms. Ultimately my eyesite limitations mean I am modelling in 4mm and simply couldn't do the plan justice.