Dublo teaks and deltics (basic variations)

[muir]

'morning.

 

Two ponderings here,

 

I've ended up with a few gresley teaks, cos I love the look of 'em, and apart from the obvious brakes etc, I've noticed a couple of them have all brown ends, whereas most have brown with a black door.

Any ideas why, or which ones earlier? I've also noticed that some appear to have silvered "windows", some with a definite gold tint. Initially I would've put it down to fading, but the "gold" trim on the sides of the silvered window variety still sparkle.

 

and.... IF the all green co-co's were for sale till the end, why did HD go to all the trouble of having two different deltic castings? Or was the original batches of the co-co enough that when they changed the casting for the named deltics there was still ample stocks of the all green co-co to see them through until the end?

 

hmmmm....

 

Muir

[Dublodad]

The Teaks with brown ends should be all thirds and were issued later to use up tinprinted sheets not used for post war articulated sets

 

The plain green Deltic was issued before the actual real life livery of Deltics was known. Then correctly liveried ones were issued

 

Terry 

[sagaguy]

The later Deltic castings had a paint guide line cast into the body,also the BR Deltic shape was revised by English Electric after the drawings had been sent to Meccano resulting in the wrong body shape.

 

                      Ray.

[coachmann]

Hornby Dublo was always quick off the mark....Too quick at times as noted above. After seeing a freshly shopped coach in the then new BR maroon, I looked at the HD coach I had bought earlier in the week in Rhyl and the waist lining was yellow & black as it had been on blood & custard. It should have been yellow-black-yellow.

[Il Grifone]

The D12 coaches (crimson and cream Staniers) were also quick off the mark. The composite has its number at the left hand end as applied to the first repaints. The brake/third has it on the right. Neither has the M suffix. The D11 Gresleys have right hand numbers with suffix and were presumably updated later. All have the same numbers as their pre-nationalisation counterparts. For some reason the all-third never made it into BR livery.

 

I have seen it suggested that the brown ends were to represent a non-corridor coach, but although two compartment sides could have been used (ignoring the number which is half of an articulated set - correctly consecutive with the brake/third (the other half)) one side is a corridor. It's possible that there weren't enough ends printed and they had to run off some more. Apparently they had some sheets salted away from before the war and the first post war releases used these. (How thet avoided the wartime scrap drives I don't know (Perhaps it's better not to ask?) This would have resulted in two ends missing from each pair of course. Why they stopped making the articulated sets is another mystery.

 

As regards the Deltics, there were enough of the original issue for it to be on sale to the end (as a Class 5) alongside the correctly liveried Deltic (I doubt they sold very many once this came out, but must have sold a good number beforehand, as the plain green version is much commoner, above all if you want 'St. Paddy'.

[muir]

The D12 coaches (crimson and cream Staniers) were also quick off the mark. The composite has its number at the left hand end as applied to the first repaints. The brake/third has it on the right. Neither has the M suffix. The D11 Gresleys have right hand numbers with suffix and were presumably updated later. All have the same numbers as their pre-nationalisation counterparts. For some reason the all-third never made it into BR livery.

 

I have seen it suggested that the brown ends were to represent a non-corridor coach, but although two compartment sides could have been used (ignoring the number which is half of an articulated set - correctly consecutive with the brake/third (the other half)) one side is a corridor. It's possible that there weren't enough ends printed and they had to run off some more. Apparently they had some sheets salted away from before the war and the first post war releases used these. (How thet avoided the wartime scrap drives I don't know (Perhaps it's better not to ask?) This would have resulted in two ends missing from each pair of course. Why they stopped making the articulated sets is another mystery.

 

As regards the Deltics, there were enough of the original issue for it to be on sale to the end (as a Class 5) alongside the correctly liveried Deltic (I doubt they sold very many once this came out, but must have sold a good number beforehand, as the plain green version is much commoner, above all if you want 'St. Paddy'.

Thanks everybody - actually all very interesting stuff, especially with regards to the artic stock involvement,

Judging by the fact that it sounds like dublo had always been very quick off the mark with new liveries, modifications etc I can't help but think that the late change to BR livery was more due to massive stocks of pre-lithographed tinplate which would've had to have been used up.

I appreciate there is the thoughts about tinplate for the war effort scrap drives - I have read somewhere that the tinplate used by the toy industry were basically off-cuts from the food giants.

Also (although I'm not knowledgeable in these kind of things) is it possible most of the scrap drive was for either heavy metals or precious metals?

Tinplate when it's thrown into the melting pot possibly doesn't produce much quantity of steel plate or copper or aluminium.

I have the feeling that if the British Ministry of Supply were to put the heavy word on toy manufacturers they would've requisitioned their tool steel in a flash.

Although they wouldn't have allowed the manufacture of new tinplate, maybe they could keep their existing stocks which maybe accounts for the late BR tinplate changeover.

 

The D13's were apparently going to be articulated sets, how would that work? with BR bogies? in LMS maroon? 

[Golden Fleece 30]

The LMS did have a handfull, 6 I think, of twin articulated sets consisting of a brake and an open. Bogie wise is a different issue but they probably would not be noticed at that scale whichever they used.

 

Garry

The LMS did have a handfull, 6 I think, of twin articulated sets consisting of a brake and an open. Bogie wise is a different issue but they probably would not be noticed at that scale whichever they used.

 

Garry

[alfsboy]

The Government nicked my mothers iron railings to help the war effort .She never forgave them.

[Il Grifone]

The Government nicked my mothers iron railings to help the war effort .She never forgave them.

 

This was spread all over the country (our house in Bristol had the sad stumps left in the front wall. The rumour is that since the railings were unsuitable for the intended purpose they were all dumped in the North Sea... (wrought iron not much use for making tanks?).

 

Presumably the D13 coaches would either have used Gresley bogies (pre-war Dublo had rather an LNER bias) or the LMS bogies would have been designed to take the pegs for the articulation in the same way. It is possible they would have appeared in all four liveries (like the 0 gauge version) with a generic design of bogie. I believe only the Southern didn't have any articulated sets (not that that would have worried them at all!)

 

The delay introducing BR livery was in part due to the Korean War stopping production. Meccano had to close their new Speke factory. Whether we should have been involved at all is another matter, but we certainly didn't need to be engaged in another war after WW II had almost bankrupted the country.