Goods Wagons Height, Length and some other Goods wagon research.

[844fan]

Hey all,

In just a few weeks I plan to start learning the ins and outs of 3D modeling at last. As many of you may know I don't have room in my apartment for any scale lines at the moment (Just a note I may have just enough for a N scale/gauge layout but I dare not touch the scale. I am a klutz at times and I know anything smaller than HO/OO would be unwise for me to handel. That plus I have a pet Dash hound who is very nosey and likes to chew on plastic things. He never eats them but he could those.) so I am going to be making my engines in the digital realm of Trainz.

 

But before I start I'm making some mocups of certain things like Engines and rolling stock with my Pixel art skills. I'm drawing them to scale as well going with a TT scale for size and hopefully eventually G/Gauge 1 size.  A few of the engines are going to be partial Freelance designs as well hence my need to make my drawings the way I am.

 

Now I've been working on a drawing of a old 7 plank wagon and one thing I'm not sure I'm getting right with it is the height right. How tall is the average 7 Plank wagon from rail to top? Also are the wooden planks making up the Truck the same in size vertically? (I'm having trouble finding the right way to put the question on the planks. What I'm asking is if you were to measure them with a tape measure while they are in place on the Truck would they be equal in width up and down? I know they are the same length from end to end otherwise the Truck in question would be uneven and possibly very weak is how well it stayed together.) 

 

Also I recently found a photo on google of a older Truck that had inside bearings as opposed to the classic Leaf spring atop a journal box look that the average Truck would have. It was also quite small but it was definitely not a Chauldren type as it's sides were the regular style of plank trucks and it's sides weren't in the "V" shape a Chauldren would be and it even had modern buffers.

 

I'd like to learn more about it as for one Locomotive I wish to model it will need smaller wagons to do it's work (The engine in question is S&M "Gazelle" and her job fo my layout is her Military job a Track inspection engine. The Smaller wagons would be for carrying tools and some other light loads for the Workers along with a small coach like she had in her prime.)

 

 

This is the wagon in question.

 

 

I'm quite sure it is a Standard Gauge truck but I have never seen any like this in the UK I have in the US from during the civil war era but those had no buffers only Hinge Pin couplers. (I hope that is the correct name for said coupler which basically had a indent allowing a pin to be dropped in to hold the freight cars and engine to link up.)

 

Now one last thing I get to get some ideas for is Private Owner wagon liveries as I plan to have my own operators for certain goods for my layout so if anyone knows of some interesting paint schemes on real PO wagons please don't hesitate to link me to them. Color if possible.

 

As always thanks for any and all help everyone. You guys are great mentors on my model railway journey.

[Dunsignalling]

That's a mine or quarry truck with no suspension or brakes at all.

 

It would almost certainly never leave its place of work and would probably hop off the track at anything much over walking pace.

 

As you suggest, proper buffers are a novelty on such a wagon, coupling hooks less so, at least in the UK.

 

As a general rule of thumb, the height-above-rail of a 7-plank wagon will be in the region of eight feet. 

 

Cambrian Models do a fair selection of oldish PO wagons in kit form and its worth having a look at the pictures of built up ones on their website to get an idea of proportions, variations between builders etc., even if you are intending to scratchbuild.

 

John

[Guy Rixon]

Now I've been working on a drawing of a old 7 plank wagon and one thing I'm not sure I'm getting right with it is the height right. How tall is the average 7 Plank wagon from rail to top? Also are the wooden planks making up the Truck the same in size vertically? (I'm having trouble finding the right way to put the question on the planks. What I'm asking is if you were to measure them with a tape measure while they are in place on the Truck would they be equal in width up and down? I know they are the same length from end to end otherwise the Truck in question would be uneven and possibly very weak is how well it stayed together.) 

 

 

The plank width varies significantly, both between designs and within a given vehicle.

 

Example of the first case: 8-ton wagons of the late 19th century could have either 5 narrow planks or 4 broad ones, giving roughly the same height of sheeting.

 

Example of the second case: 12-ton wagons to the RCH specification of 1923 often had five planks up to the top of the side doors and then two noticeably broader ones above the door. The RCH specification-drawing shows the lower planks as 6.875" and the two upper ones as 8.875". Later, as the broader timber became scarce and more expensive, builders preferred to use three narrow planks above the door.

 

We should remember that the overall height of mineral wagons was regulated by the RCH so that they were interoperable. Make the side too low and the wagon won't hold its rated load in coal. Make it too high and it won't fit under the screens at the collieries. The RCH drawing of April 1923 for a 12-ton wagon states the height from rail to coping as 8' 6.25". The equivalent RCH drawing of 1906 gives the overall height as 8' 8.75", suggesting that the earlier, standard wagons were getting wedged in somebody's machinery and there had been complaints.

[844fan]

That's a mine or quarry truck with no suspension or brakes at all.

 

It would almost certainly never leave its place of work and would probably hop off the track at anything much over walking pace.

 

As you suggest, proper buffers are a novelty on such a wagon, coupling hooks less so, at least in the UK.

 

As a general rule of thumb, the height-above-rail of a 7-plank wagon will be in the region of eight feet. 

 

Cambrian Models do a fair selection of oldish PO wagons in kit form and its worth having a look at the pictures of built up ones on their website to get an idea of proportions, variations between builders etc., even if you are intending to scratchbuild.

 

John

I had thought about that. Seeing so many wagons that were used on industrial lines both standard and narrow gauge from a documentary I found recently the Classic Truck was often the odd one out on those lines but as you say Buffers were quite rare for the wagons used there. I quite like the design of that Truck though from what I see of it a breaking gear could easily be installed but as it would be a rough rider without shocks but for use as a tool wagon for a small engine like Gazelle I think it could work so long as there was another carrige behind it to act as a counter balance. 

 

Ok a average 7 plank wagon is roughly 8 foot from the rail tall. That will help me greatly. I'll have a look at the Cambrian Models and see what they have to inspire my companies. Thanks very much.

 

The plank width varies significantly, both between designs and within a given vehicle.

 

Example of the first case: 8-ton wagons of the late 19th century could have either 5 narrow planks or 4 broad ones, giving roughly the same height of sheeting.

 

Example of the second case: 12-ton wagons to the RCH specification of 1923 often had five planks up to the top of the side doors and then two noticeably broader ones above the door. The RCH specification-drawing shows the lower planks as 6.875" and the two upper ones as 8.875". Later, as the broader timber became scarce and more expensive, builders preferred to use three narrow planks above the door.

 

We should remember that the overall height of mineral wagons was regulated by the RCH so that they were interoperable. Make the side too low and the wagon won't hold its rated load in coal. Make it too high and it won't fit under the screens at the collieries. The RCH drawing of April 1923 for a 12-ton wagon states the height from rail to coping as 8' 6.25". The equivalent RCH drawing of 1906 gives the overall height as 8' 8.75", suggesting that the earlier, standard wagons were getting wedged in somebody's machinery and there had been complaints.

Duly noted as with all railways no two rolling stock types were exactly the same from line to line. You can see it in quite a few designs of Van and Wagon for Western region and Southern region. But most were about eight foot tall from the rail give or take a few inches amd the planks could vary quite a bit from each other do long as they stacked correctly. Thank you very much.