Cromford Wharf Shunting layout - structures and scenery

[Alister_G]

Code 75 plus C&L track is a definite improvement over Peco code 100!

 

I hope you go for it. It is a fascinating area with a lot going for it, especially if you have room for the canal.

A County series OS map would be very helpful as a planning aid.

 

I like the idea of a run round behind the back scene, providing it is open topped and accessible. I have fitted one to Horselunges, but quickly made it two tracks, one for each direction of travel.

Just one track will quickly become a bottle neck.

How will you over come the difference of heights? I am thinking short cassettes that will comfortable take the maximum number of wagons that were winched up the incline at any one time, possible 3 or 4.

 

Gordon

 

Hi Gordon,

 

Thanks very much.

 

I'm definitely going to go for it, probably Easter week is when I'll start it, as I have some holiday booked.

 

With regard to the run around, I'm not sure it's feasible with the curves of the scenic section, and the height difference, as you say, so your suggestion of cassettes is looking favourable to transfer stock from the top of the incline back to the fiddle yard. I haven't quite given up on the idea of the run round though, and may experiment when the main section is done.

 

Al.

[MarshLane]

Al,

It has just occurred to me, somebody (I think a club) did a model of this in OO a few years back, complete with working incline.  It was on the exhibition circuit for a while and *I think* was described and photographed in Railway Modeller - I'm probably going back to early 2000s / late 1990s however.  Can't think what it was called, might have been High Peak Junction or just Cromford Canal ... but might be of help you if you can find the article.

Rich

[Alister_G]

Baseboard thoughts.

 

My previous layouts have used two different methods of baseboard construction. Bakewell, being a permanent layout in the cellar, was built to withstand a nuclear attack, using 19mm ply surfaces and 8" timber framework, and is strong enough that I could walk on the boards before I started laying track.

 

By contrast, Grindleford was designed from the outset to be easily transportable, and so the baseboards are bult using sheets of Insulation foam, with a 6mm ply frame round the outside for rigidity.

 

Both these layouts, however, are almost flat-earth designs, although Grindleford does have some slight changes in contours above and below the track.

 

For Cromford though, the terrain is against me!

 

Here's a representative slice through the landscape:

 

 

 

The front is to the left.

 

So first, at the bottom, there is the Midland main line to Matlock (now only single track, but modelled as the full double track original, non-running), then there is a substantial retaining wall, behind and on top of which is first the towpath, and then the canal. Then you have the main trackbed level of the site, which is followed by another retaining wall to hold back the steep hillside up to the road level, and then the road itself. In addition, a section of the track will be built on an incline to go from the main trackbed level, under the road and off-scene.

 

It would be silly therefore to try and start this from a flat baseboard, and so my thinking is that I will build this using a space-frame type construction, using ply formers and thin ply trackbed. I want this to be as light as possible, so that if I choose to exhibit it I can lift it without requiring medical attention.

 

I've never built a baseboard this way before, so any advice would be welcome.

 

Thanks,

 

Al.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Alister_G
re-upload images

[Alister_G]

Al,

It has just occurred to me, somebody (I think a club) did a model of this in OO a few years back, complete with working incline.  It was on the exhibition circuit for a while and *I think* was described and photographed in Railway Modeller - I'm probably going back to early 2000s / late 1990s however.  Can't think what it was called, might have been High Peak Junction or just Cromford Canal ... but might be of help you if you can find the article.

Rich

 

Hi Rich,

 

I know of a number of different models of the Cromford Wharf area, these below I've come across a lot whilst researching the line:

 

Cromford Wharf model O Gauge - built by Dave and Jackie Walker

 

http://cromfordvillage.co.uk/celebrating/wharf_model.html

 

Cromford And High Peak by John Holroyd

 

http://www.bradfordmrc.co.uk/Exhibition%20archive_2013.html

 

Famous Trains, Markeaton, Derby

 

http://www.famoustrains.org.uk/gallery/incline_layout.html

 

There's also the Scalefour Society  model of the Sheeps Pasture incline:

 

http://glevums4.co.uk/sheep-pasture.html

 

So, no pressure to get it right then!

 

 

Al.

[MarshLane]

Hi Al,

I've no real hints or tips here, but I think the open plan idea is potentially the best ... it does strike me however as your main line is not going to be operational, it might be best to build the boards around the Cromford line and Canal, and have a extra piece of ply or whatever you use for the top, mounted below at the front, screwed/glued from within the frame, so that the main line part is actually outside the frames at the lower level - assuming the frame is the same height as the LMS retaining wall, if that makes any sense?

 

The boards on my Arksey layout (See Post #3) were designed to be light and possible for one person to lift, which they are.  Obviously that is a different kettle of fish to what your doing, as they are 3' x 18' boards, but it strikes me that if you didn't put the ply top on, and added perhaps two or three cross-sections below, rather than the one I had ... that may give you the flexibility for different heights on the canal extra, without needing a degree in woodwork?

 

Rich

Edited April 9, 2017 by MarshLane

[Alister_G]

On 09/04/2017 at 21:32, MarshLane said:

Hi Al,

I've no real hints or tips here, but I think the open plan idea is potentially the best ... it does strike me however as your main line is not going to be operational, it might be best to build the boards around the Cromford line and Canal, and have a extra piece of ply or whatever you use for the top, mounted below at the front, screwed/glued from within the frame, so that the main line part is actually outside the frames at the lower level - assuming the frame is the same height as the LMS retaining wall, if that makes any sense?

 

The boards on my Arksey layout (See Post #3) were designed to be light and possible for one person to lift, which they are.  Obviously that is a different kettle of fish to what your doing, as they are 3' x 18' boards, but it strikes me that if you didn't put the ply top on, and added perhaps two or three cross-sections below, rather than the one I had ... that may give you the flexibility for different heights on the canal extra, without needing a degree in woodwork?

 

Rich

 

Hi Rich,

 

You read my mind, regarding the mainline section - this will be tacked on as a shelf in front, rather than being an integral part of the main structure.

 

What I'm planning is to make a load of plywood formers like this:

 

 

 

Which will be supported on and fixed to two timbers which run the length of the board.

 

These formers will run front to back, and there will be around 24 of them along the length of the layout.

 

The profiles of these will change along the length, and attached to these will be the plywood track base, cut to match the required curves, like this:

 

 

 

The front face will have more ply covering it, to provide a base to make the embankment wall.

 

That's the plan so far, anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

Al.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Alister_G
re-upload images

[Enterprisingwestern]

Are you building an aeroplane?

 

Mike.

[Marcus 37]

Morning Al

Wow mate. Haven't been on for a couple of days so hadn't seen this until now. Having been to the location a few times I'm really looking forward to this. There's some lovely interesting buildings there, which I know you will recreate to your usual superb standard, so I have a feeling this going to be a good one.

Also will we see the first ever Al scratch built loco in the form of one of the 47000 Kitson 0-4-0 saddle tanks? Not being a steam man I don't know if a kit exists.

Also seen pictures of the Drewery diesels shunters at Cromford wharf just before closure. Not sure if their 03 or 04. I'll have to try and find by Cromford and High Peak book that's around somewhere.

Shall be following along with interest now mate.

Cheers

Marcus

[Andrew P]

A really good test of your woodworking skills I would say Al.

[Alister_G]

A really good test of your woodworking skills I would say Al.

Yeas... that's what's worrying me... my woodwork skills are going to have to improve to get this right!

 

Al

[Alister_G]

Morning Al

Wow mate. Haven't been on for a couple of days so hadn't seen this until now. Having been to the location a few times I'm really looking forward to this. There's some lovely interesting buildings there, which I know you will recreate to your usual superb standard, so I have a feeling this going to be a good one.

Also will we see the first ever Al scratch built loco in the form of one of the 47000 Kitson 0-4-0 saddle tanks? Not being a steam man I don't know if a kit exists.

Also seen pictures of the Drewery diesels shunters at Cromford wharf just before closure. Not sure if their 03 or 04. I'll have to try and find by Cromford and High Peak book that's around somewhere.

Shall be following along with interest now mate.

Cheers

Marcus

 

Thanks Marcus,

 

Yes, the buildings are one of the attractions of the site, I'm looking forward to modelling them.

 

I was looking round the other night, Dapol do a plastic kit of a Kitson Pug, which it might be possible to modify to reflect the 47000 class, and the Hornby Caly Pug (with the longer wheelbase), might be a suitable chassis to put under it.

 

I've got a photo at home of the 03 shunter on the line, as well.

 

Al

[Gordon A]

Michael Edge (Judith Edge kits) does a kit for a  Kitson 0-4-0 saddle tank.

Might be next on my shopping list.

 

Gordon A

[New Haven Neil]

I saw a C&HP layout with a working incline at a show 'some' years ago, it wasn't any of the ones above.  IIRC it was by Geraint Hughes?  I think it was in Your Model Railway in the late 80's.  The incline worked very well indeed, Mrs H was most impressed at the time which takes some doing.  I recall the scenery to be very good for the time too.

[Alister_G]

I saw a C&HP layout with a working incline at a show 'some' years ago, it wasn't any of the ones above.  IIRC it was by Geraint Hughes?  I think it was in Your Model Railway in the late 80's.  The incline worked very well indeed, Mrs H was most impressed at the time which takes some doing.  I recall the scenery to be very good for the time too.

 

Thanks, I'll look out for that one as well.

 

It does seem to be quite a frequently modelled location, but you can sort of understand why, with buildings, a canal, and the incline, it's a modellers dream, I suppose.

 

I'm not sure I'm going to have a working model of the incline, as I'm only reproducing the very bottom of it, using the road bridge as a scenic break, although I will add the details like the pulleys in the middle of the track, and so on.

 

Cheers,

 

Al.

[New Haven Neil]

Yeah, the making of a working incline would be beyond me!  I would look to see if I had the magazine still but I'm immobile after an accident at the moment!

[Alister_G]

Yeah, the making of a working incline would be beyond me!  I would look to see if I had the magazine still but I'm immobile after an accident at the moment!

 

Yeah, cheers Neil, I've seen the photos of your foot!

 

Al

[New Haven Neil]

Sorry!  Ugly mess isn't it!

 

I'm sure the guy's name was Geraint, less so that Hughes was his surname.

[Alister_G]

Sorry!  Ugly mess isn't it!

 

I'm sure the guy's name was Geraint, less so that Hughes was his surname.

 

You're absolutely right, he's now very kindly contacted me to offer support having seen this thread.

 

Al.

[New Haven Neil]

You're absolutely right, he's now very kindly contacted me to offer support having seen this thread.

 

Al.

 

I'm glad I was complimentary about it!  I was much impressed with the incline, must have been York or Manchester show I reckon, didn't get much further afield than that from Tyneside at tha time as I was recently married.  Please share any good info, or it would be great to have Geraint post some photos.....pretty please.....

[Joseph_Pestell]

Even with the incline itself off-scene beyond the road bridge, you need something to move the wagons while uncoupled from a locomotive and take them off-scene at that end. Easy enough I guess if DCC and a motorised wagon (rather like the old Kitmaster one).

[Joe MCMLXI]

Liking your choice of subject for your shunting layout, Al.

I also have a soft spot for the C&HPR and have a corner of my layout, 'themed' as Middleton Top engine shed.

Good luck with the build, will be dropping in regularly to see the progress,

 

joe

[Alister_G]

Even with the incline itself off-scene beyond the road bridge, you need something to move the wagons while uncoupled from a locomotive and take them off-scene at that end. Easy enough I guess if DCC and a motorised wagon (rather like the old Kitmaster one).

 

Hi Joseph,

 

There's plenty of photographic evidence showing the locomotives being hauled up and down the incline with the wagons, so I reckon it might be possible just to drive a model loco up and off scene with three mineral wagons.

 

Some experimentation may be required!

 

Thanks,

 

Al.

[Alister_G]

Liking your choice of subject for your shunting layout, Al.

I also have a soft spot for the C&HPR and have a corner of my layout, 'themed' as Middleton Top engine shed.

Good luck with the build, will be dropping in regularly to see the progress,

 

joe

 

Thanks Joe,

 

Nice to have you along mate, us locals have got to stick together!

 

Al

[Mrkirtley800]

Hello Al, just found this thread. Looks fascinating, good luck with it, I will be tuning in to you on a regular basis

Derek

[Alister_G]

Hello Al, just found this thread. Looks fascinating, good luck with it, I will be tuning in to you on a regular basis

Derek

 

Thanks Derek, I'm looking forward to starting this, now.

 

Al.