What is a Cameo Layout?

[New Haven Neil]

I'm struggling with the dimensions. Iain Rice's books are all based on 4mm either EM or P4, Nothing wrong with that but if your a 7mm working out dimensions of what counts as a Cameo layout. We have a Fenland style layout that is 22ft long with it fiddle yards does this count once I have finished its lighting rig. its not high as we wanted kids to be able to view it without having to climb on a box.

 

 Marc

 

IF.....it was in a box with an arch and with built in or at least easily integrated lighting, I'd say yes.  Personal view..... I take cameo to mean an enclosed scene, a stage set.  Size within reason is academic, it is the presentation method that makes it so. 

[NHY 581]

I deliberately included a smiley in the hope that you would not take my comment seriously.

 

I do agree that there is no perfect answer.

 

But a great deal of money is spent (for example on low-floor kneeling buses) to make life easier for the minority of people who have disabilities; are obliged to use wheelchairs or who are in charge of small children. It seems singularly perverse if the attitude of the model railway fraternity is to say F*** Off to those people. We can do what we want in our homes or our clubs. But at a public exhibition the "ordinary" public should be accommodated even if at some inconvenience to the exhibitors

 

...R

R,

 

Nobody here is suggesting anybody is told to F off. The concept is as offensive as the language you allude to. However there is no perfect answer. If we build a low layout then some one will say it should be higher. If we build it high then someone will say build it lower. Someone will take issue. My layout is set at 52 inches because that's the height I like it and it's the most comfortable for me to operate as I like to be standing stood up when I is chatting to people, innit.

 

 

 

This whole issue of layout height is dragging the thread down ( no pun intended). It is not the first time this has been debated ad nauseum and it won't be the last for sure but shall we conclude this point and move on.

 

Rob.

[Huw Griffiths]

Grammar rules are interesting, as the vehemence with which some people chose to police them. Recently, I was in the audience for a very enjoyable talk at the Stratford Literary Festival by David Crystal, British linguist, academic and author, entitled “Making Sense: The Glamorous Story of English Grammar”.

 

He managed to kill a number of sacred cows during the evening by tracing the rules back to their root. Goodies such as “Can you start a sentence with a preposition” for instance, owe their origins to a group of teachers deciding they were bad and banning pupils from starting sentences with “And”. Of course, as he pointed out, these same teachers were encouraging pupils to read Shakespeare, specifically Hamlet, which includes the line “And then it started like a guilty thing”.

 

Alack, Shakespeare. I knew his works well. Well, some of them. And rather too well for my liking. Be it written in an English language so obscure, and antiquated, that lots of people these days can't understand some of the words without an explanation.

 

I could make similar observations about the works of Dickens - and other "classic" authors - who padded their writing out with pages of meaningless (and sometimes unintelligible) waffle, to keep up the word count (and presumably maximise the amount contemporary magazines paid them to serialize their novels).

 

And yet, those educationalists who've insisted, over the years, on inflicting this stuff onto generations of teenagers, seem incapable of comprehending the fact that lots of people have been turned off reading for life. (I can't possibly think why.)

 

 

As for the Oxford comma, another significant rule you'll be familiar with, the story is hilarious and exasperating. For the record, I side with Cambridge.

 

Hmmm - the "Oxford comma" has long been a personal bête noire - which is why I made a point of including one in my previous comments. You needn't worry - there won't be more of the abominations any time soon - well, not from me, anyway.

 

 

The start of the talk laid down a simple message. Language is for communication. If you can understand what is being communicated then it's worked.

 

Unfortunately, by the same token, if people try to communicate with me using "txt.spk", then oh dear ... !

 

 

Now, how is your layout progressing?

 

Now we're talking - except, in my case, we're not (however much I might wish for the opportunity to do something constructive about this). Anyway, moving swiftly on:

 

 

In future Phil, to avoid adverse comment regarding stood, standing etc, I would suggest the following;

 

"I like to be erect when talking"

 

There can be no miss understanding about that.....

 

Well, there might - but probably best not to go into too much detail there - especially in view of a few thousand people for whom the word "stand" probably means something completely different right now. While they all wish us to see them as upright citizens - "honourable men" (and women) - some of them seem to be in the wrong line. That's right - some of them belong in "stand up" - while others aren't remotely funny.

 

For obvious reasons, I'd prefer not to engage in discussion here about which ones would get my vote - and which ones would merely get "a piece of my mind".

 

 

Anyway, that's enough about that.

 

Let's get back to the trains.

 

 

Huw.

[Ruston]

Yes it can be if you add a full frame to conceal lighting, or as Ian calls it proscenium arch, and it can be mounted around eye level.

Buying the book is the entry ticket effectively as it's a Wild Swan competition. This was launched in MRJ and just been allowed additional exposure on here.

Another really nice layout whether you enter it or not

Thanks but I won't be entering it. It's 99% finished now, so that would be cheating, I guess. Also, it has been made to particular dimensions, regarding height, due to storage restrictions, which means it can't have a frame/arch around it. I suppose I could make the arch removable but it's an unneccesary expense just to enter the competition.

 

All this talk of the viewing height of the layouts; seems to me that everything is geared toward exhibiting and I don't think I'm cut out for exhibiting a layout.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Ruston

[MarcD]

I think high is an issue for a number of reasons. My "Scratchy Bottom/Lowick" layout is 3ft6 off the floor. Its about right for operating 3 link couplings, in 7mm. The only way to increase the high would be to use automatic couplings. If the legs were any higher or lower it would be hard, if not imposable to operate without automatic couplings. It does mean that if you are between 5 and 15 you get a very good view and its not a bad view from a seated position which allows visibility from a wheel chair.  If you are above 5ft tall you do look down on the world.

 

I remember watching the St Juliot  S gauge layout at York some years back the layout was viewed from a seating area that had been laid out specifically so you could sit and watch it.it was like being sat in a small theatre.  

 

Marc

[PMP]

If anyone is really having sleepless nights about whether they should enter the competition because of the layout height criteria, the simple solution is to make a cameo model of a rack railway. Start it about 1ft off the ground and finish it around 5ft. Simples, and all inclusive too.

[Joseph_Pestell]

If anyone is really having sleepless nights about whether they should enter the competition because of the layout height criteria, the simple solution is to make a cameo model of a rack railway. Start it about 1ft off the ground and finish it around 5ft. Simples, and all inclusive too.

I was actually thinking of something based on the Cromford & High Peak. This double benefit had not occurred to me.

[Captain Kernow]

Maybe a more practical option for an exhibition is to locate the Cameo at a height that suits shorter people and have video screen showing at the eye level for taller people.

Really?

Really?

My response to that suggestion reminds me of John McEnroe's favourite riposte.

 

 

If the tall people want to view the real thing rather than the video then they can squat down.

 

No, no, no, no, NO! Again, John McEnroe's riposte refers.

 

Anyone who is tall, perhaps with lower back problems and/or has knees that don't like prolonged squatting won't thank you for that idea.

 

I have absolutely nothing against making provision for those unfortunate enough to be in a wheelchair, but I'm also increasingly fed up with the number of 'disabled-friendly' facilities in this country that actually equate to discrimination against tall people with lower back problems. At RailEx last weekend, I practically had to squat down to dry my hands in the lavatory, and you find these low-lying wash hand basins and hot air driers all over the place. By all means provide such facilities (legal requirements not withstanding), but can we also please have some additional facilities alongside, that are set at a sensible height for taller people, please?

 

 

If anyone is really having sleepless nights about whether they should enter the competition because of the layout height criteria, the simple solution is to make a cameo model of a rack railway. Start it about 1ft off the ground and finish it around 5ft. Simples, and all inclusive too.

Brilliant, Paul, just excellent! Thanks for diffusing this unhelpful and unproductive layout height argument. The only thing missing from this debate hitherto is to bring in arguments about the reliability of P4 exhibition layouts!

 

As I've said elsewhere, my layout will be set at the height that suits me and is most comfortable for me. I have to build it and then I have to operate it. It's main purpose is for me to have something to play with at home, where I don't really have the opportunity currently to set my other layouts up.

 

If it gets invitations to shows, then fine, if it's not invited to certain shows - because it's set too high for some - then that's also fine with me.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Captain Kernow

[davefromacrossthepond]

What is a cameo layout?  Such the innocent thread title.  Yeah right.  After reading through 12 pages of this thread and the 6 pages of the Cameo Competition thread, and several of the others, I couldn't help myself and ended up this morning on the Titfield Thunderbolt Bookshop website where I purchased Iain Rice's book and the MRJ issue 254 to learn more.  Darn you guys!!!  I'll probably end up trying to build one of 'em too.  

Edited June 2, 2017 by davefromacrossthepond

[Not Jeremy]

Perhaps this would help?

 

 

 

 

 

[Porcy Mane]

With the newly discovered fact that all worms created have individuals identities and can be recognised by number like markings along their flanks, the ranks of railway enthusiasts has been recently been decimated by them taking up the new hobby of Worrm Spotting.

 

Ex. train spotter & railway modeller, William Bentspine said yesterday. "Train spotting had never been the same since the manure specials stopped running down my local branch. This new hobby has filled a void in my life. Not only that, my wife never now complains about the smell of glue in the kitchen. I guess it will not be long though till she starts moaning about having to scrub the grass stains out of my trousers knees (adding it's been a long time since she did that)."

 

William explained that with the help of fellow worm spottters, they had managed to cop all of the worms in his back garden and with a bit of luck is hoping to arrange a spotting trip to the local council allotments. He also said he planned to publish a book listing all known worm casts as he thinks it would be of assistance to fellow enthusiasts. He finished by adding that his new hobby was opening up new horizons for him and those like him.

 

P

Edited June 3, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[Captain Kernow]

Perhaps this would help?

 

trainspotting.jpg

'NHS baffled by mysterious illness transmitted by Gauge 1 trains'.

[Porcy Mane]

'NHS baffled by mysterious illness transmitted by Gauge 1 trains'.

 

Maybe they got knocked over by an Oxford Comma?

 

 

P

[Captain Kernow]

That's the van used by the Horrocksford PW gang.

[Ruston]

I think it had something to do with being south of Barnsley and therefore becoming disoriented, but I opened my wallet and bought a copy of the Cameo Layouts book at the DEMU show, today. It looks to be a an interesting book (it's got two Ruston 48DS, an 88Ds and a 165DS in it!) and so now I'm considering building one of these cameo layouts.

 

[Goes off to get thinking cap on]

[davefromacrossthepond]

Ruston,

 

Ah, I see they got you too.  

 

Dave

[Robin2]

 but I opened my wallet and bought a copy of the Cameo Layouts book at the DEMU show, today.

They'll need a second print run at this rate!

 

And Iain Rice will finally be able to afford to buy a loco rather than go to all the trouble of building them

 

...R

Edited June 4, 2017 by Robin2

[Arthur]

For those interested in his layout design philosophy Ian mentions his earlier Haynes 'Layout Design' book noting that it's out of print but available used. I think he might be surprised at their current value....

 

I've got a copy but looked on eBay out of curiosity. There are three, one at £202.79, yes, you read that right,

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112404119468

 

a second at £174.59 and one at a more modest £49.99.

 

 

Whether they sell is, of course, another question.

.

(Edited for link)

Edited June 4, 2017 by Arthur

[bgman]

They'll need a second print run at this rate

 

...R

 

Personally I hope so.

As a good friend of Iain and having spent several hours with him yesterday afternoon it's what he deserves when one considers his contribution to this hobby.

 

I would also add he is in good spirits and still has a very positive outlook.

[Robin2]

I would also add he is in good spirits and still has a very positive outlook.

That sounds ominous. Please pass on my best wishes.

 

...R

[davefromacrossthepond]

What is a cameo layout?  Such the innocent thread title.  Yeah right.  After reading through 12 pages of this thread and the 6 pages of the Cameo Competition thread, and several of the others, I couldn't help myself and ended up this morning on the Titfield Thunderbolt Bookshop website where I purchased Iain Rice's book and the MRJ issue 254 to learn more.  Darn you guys!!!  I'll probably end up trying to build one of 'em too.  

Ok, got a small package from Bath UK in the mail today when I got home.  In quickly flipping through Iain's book, I can tell that, just like all his other books, I'll very much enjoy reading it and that it will stimulate more than a bit of thought.  I also have to say that never having seen MRJ before, I get the feeling that it also will make for some pleasurable reading this weekend.  I also downloaded the "entry form."  

[Not Jeremy]

Cameo compadres may be interested to hear that there is full page "Cameo Competition Update" in the latest MRJ (256) which expands a little on a couple of rule type points, including some thoughts on layout h**ght as It relates to the competition.

 

Nothing revolutionary or different but a slight concern that physical dimensions don't propel some entries out of the competition.

 

As the update says, the response to the idea has been terrific, both here and off the net and there are lots of really interesting ideas and schemes taking shape.

 

I'm still contemplating one of my own in G1, but it is a very big scale for a small space. If I do manage to build anything it will of course be without the competition.

 

Simon

[Robin2]

I thought #256 was going to be in the shops on 6 July. I have not seen it yet in WH Smiths.

 

UPDATE:  Got a copy today (21st July).

 

...R

Edited July 21, 2017 by Robin2

[Regularity]

I would like clarification of the meaning of a "Cameo Layout".

 

Am I allowed to use other machines, such as the Cricut, or indeed the Silhouette Portrait, to make a layout?

[queensquare]

I would like clarification of the meaning of a "Cameo Layout".

Am I allowed to use other machines, such as the Cricut, or indeed the Silhouette Portrait, to make a layout?

Read the book.

 

Jerry