Jump to content
 


Focalplane
 Share

Recommended Posts

EDIT to say:

 

A lot of the early posts on this thread are no longer relevant but the essence remains the same.  If you read on please understand that this is a work in progress and is subject to all the whims and changes of someone who doesn't always know what he is doing.

 

Additional Edit  - The current build project starts on Page 10.

 

After only a week or so of research, and with the blessing of the "chief of household", I have decided that a reasonably accurate model of Penmaenpool Station as it was in the late 1950s, can be constructed using modules. Ideally, the layout will eventually be housed in a garage or shed with tracks leading to an extensive garden run. The basic problem with the word "eventually" is that I currently don't have a garage, a shed, or a garden!

But my aim is to make a real layout in a relatively short space of time (I am retired) using kits I build but also RTR trains and track.

Legge Lane Shed will remain as my indoor apartment test bed for locos, etc. in France. The modules will be constructed there as well but may be transported to the UK at some future date.

The initial work on Penmaenpool (research and planning) can be found on my workbench topic, and I will incorporate much of that into this topic in the days ahead.

But as an introduction, here is a quick sketch map of the potential layout using old maps and Google Earth:

post-20733-0-57366200-1493381945_thumb.png

Edited by Focalplane
  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites

Locomotives and Stock

 

There are a surprising number of RTR and quality kits of locos that were seen on the Cambrian line between Dolgellau and Barmouth Junction.  As an extension of the Ruabon-Bala single track main line across North Wales, a wide variety of trains could be seen.  As well as daily through trains on the timetable, summer specials also connected the heavily populated areas of Lancashire and the North Midlands with seaside resorts along the Cardigan Bay coast.  Local trains added to the passenger services, while most freights were of the pick up variety, serving the needs of the stations along the way.  Quarries also provided important traffic.

 

Because Penmaenpool was on the original Cambrian Railway territory, connecting with the GWR at Dolgellau, a few miles to the east, a single track engine shed was provided at Penmaenpool, later expanded to two tracks.  A sub-shed of Wrexham's Croes Newydd shed, the allocation during the late 1950s was a pannier tank.  Typical visitors to the shed included GWR 43XX moguls and Ivatt 2MT moguls.  These three locos would form the primary traction on the line but a much wider variety can be anticipated, including Manor and 2251 classes.

 

The good news is that all these locos are available either RTR or as kits.  So far I have two locos that will fit the concept - an Ivatt 2MT (RTR) and a Collett 14XX (kit).  My "to buy list" will probably include a Manor, a RTR 43XX and a pannier kit.  I have an ex-GWR Large Prairie (RTR) on order and this will also be used.  The kits will satisfy my desire to build some of the stock myself.  Time, however, dictates using the RTR offerings.

 

Passenger stock is more of a problem as the older GWR diagrams are not well represented in Gauge O (edit:  not true, Haywood Collett's have been sourced) but I already have two ex-GWR "B Set" pairs and a couple of ex-LMS coaches that would have been found on excursion trains.

 

Goods traffic can be catered for using both RTR and kits.  Typical goods trains will be short local pick ups using the one or maybe two sidings at Penmaenpool.  Through goods workings will be added if and when the layout goes outside.

Edited by Focalplane
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Track

 

Peco Bullhead 124 track will be used.  Although I have previously built two C&L point kits, the use of Peco will mean a considerable saving in time.  Off the shelf points fit in with the track plan.  Some 4mm for 7mm trading has resulted in my points list for the modules being fulfilled.

 

I have two catch points but photos do not show their presence even though the Signal Box diagrams have them (edit:  additional photos do show the presence of the catch/trap points).  I will add them as befits safe single line working with the goods yard siding and the engine shed tracks being directly connected to the main line.

 

I have almost enough Tortoises to drive the points, while the signal box, located by the wooden bridge across the estuary, will have all the appropriate signals, ground signals and rodding.

 

I will be using DCC with Sound for the layout, with reliable connections for the bus between the modules.  Electrical controls for the signals and points will be located on a separate panel that could be moved to either the front or the back of the layout.  The front of the layout will be the shoreline.

 

The track will be ballasted using 1960s colour photos as a guide.  There will be inspection pits under both shed tracks.

 

The track plan will have to be shrunk down in size, probably limiting the platform length to four coaches and eliminating the long gap between Hotel and Engine Shed.  This one reason why I have chosen a modular layout, so that the gap between Hotel and Engine Shed can be bridged with an additional module if space allows.

Edited by Focalplane
  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Infrastructure

 

Penmaenpool is a small but comprehensive station, with passing loop, two platforms, a station building, a goods yard and a small engine shed.  A number of ancillary buildings are also present.  Two non-railway items will be important in creating the "village atmosphere".  The first is the George Hotel, still standing and also using the old station building as an annexe.  The second is the toll house for the wooden bridge over the estuary.  The bridge itself will not be modelled.

 

The passing loop is served by two wooden platforms with simple wooden shelters.  Railings along the back of each platform provide some safety.  The platforms were staggered with access from the nearby station building requiring ground level crossings (there is a full level crossing to access the estuary bridge as well).

 

The station building still stands but its external appearance has been changed significantly.  Old photos do, however, give a good indication of what was there and what is original versus what has been added by the hotel owners.

 

The goods yard had one one siding in the late 1950s, though there was another parallel siding at one time.  To improve operating the model it is tempting to consider adding the second siding.  The yard included a small loading dock with a small lockable shed on it.  There was no crane.  Coal deliveries and general pick up goods would be all that can be expected.

 

The engine shed was build of black or dark grey painted corrugated iron sheeting over a wooden framework.  It is no longer there and its exact size is difficult to estimate from photos.  Older maps show one road, later maps show two.  All 1950/60s photos show two roads.  The later map could therefore be used to scale off a footprint and work up from there.  There appear to have been inspection pits inside the shed but no ash pit outside (edit:  new photos do show show ash pits outside the shed).  Piles of ash are evident in photos.  A small wooden coaling stage is present as is a small water tank, mounted on pillars next to the shed entrance.  No water column is evident on photos.  Another black corrugated shed acted as an office or store of some kind.  The foreman's house still stands behind where the shed was located but it will may not be included in the model (for reasons of space).

 

The bank of the estuary will be an important feature, just as it is today (the tracks are gone, replaced by the Mawddach Trail).  Ferries from Barmouth used to ply up the estuary but space will preclude their being modelled.

 

The bridge will be represented by the level crossing, the tollgate cottage and perhaps one span of the wooden roadway.

 

The hotel may have to be shortened in length.  It looks as though it may have been shorter at one time.  An approach to the owners will help to decide how much should be included in the model.  At one time the building was half public house/inn, half a ships chandlers.

 

It looks as though the main buildings will have to be scratch built but there is a good chance that many of the ancillary structures could be sourced from laser and resin kits/RTP.  Skytrex have a good representation of the wooden coal stage, for example.

 

Finally, although this stretch of the line was built by the Cambrian Railway, it would appear that some of the infrastructure was added during GWR ownership.  This is another area where more research is needed.

Edited by Focalplane
  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul,

There are some excellent photographs of Penmeanpool  in the book "The Ruabon to Barmouth Line" by Martin F Williams and published by Lightmoor Press. I received a copy last Christmas along with some other good titles. I have always rather fancied building a model based on Trevor at the other end of the line.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

post-13142-0-12366500-1493395493.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Chris

 

I just checked availability and prices but the snag is the delivery time, so I am going to have to wait a while as I will soon be in France.  I'll order it from there.

 

My next task is to design the track layout in more detail, using a roll of wallpaper lining paper, then transfer that to SketchUp and add the infrastructure.  Module 1, the Engine Shed will be the first phase of the project, a diorama in its own right for the time being.

 

Paul

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some excellent photographs of Penmeanpool  in the book "The Ruabon to Barmouth Line" by Martin F Williams and published by Lightmoor Press. I received a copy last Christmas along with some other good titles. I have always rather fancied building a model based on Trevor at the other end of the line.

I too looked at Trevor. Interesting industrial complex and attractive location.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi D_M

 

I have to say that I have not yet had a chance to check the maps as we are having a family weekend.  However I think you are probably right as there are some discrepancies in the red line links between Google Earth and the old map(s).  This is probably not good news so more pruning of the scale length of the project will be required.  Again the modular concept can come to the rescue.

 

Thanks, Paul

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't a 4mm version of this feature in BRM relatively recently.

 

Paul R

 

Paul R,   I think it did but I had so many problems with the download subscription I stopped renewing a year or so ago.  If it's the one I am aware of it is quite superb.  In 7mm it is going to have to be compressed but otherwise this is the standard I am hoping to attain.

 

Paul

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the Google Earth Street View (which is partly corrupted and doesn't flow easily from one image to the next all along the track way) the old station building now has a large extension on the western end.  This means the model will be much smaller than what is seen today.

 

I am not sure as to when I will return for take measurements and more photos so the Street View scenes are very useful.  A useful old photo of the station building can be found on Dolgellau.wales web site.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A new look at Google Earth and the 1904 map has refined the scaling of Penmaenpool:

 

post-20733-0-97914800-1493660275_thumb.jpg

 

As prompted by Dutch_Master I re-checked the location of the new house that has been built on the foundations of the original engine shed and now everything fits into place.  As we all know, the engine shed was located some distance from the station and this can be handled quite well with the modular approach.  I have not added possible modules to the picture above but I feel sure that the railway-related gap between hotel and shed will be missing on the final layout but that an additional scenic module could fill in part of the gap.  It will all depend on how much linear space I will have to work with.

 

Next I will see what happens when I scale the satellite image with the later map.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a first attempt at a scale model but excluding the long stretch between hotel and engine shed.

 

post-20733-0-31119200-1493745343_thumb.jpg

 

The modules are 1.5 meters long and about 0.75 meters wide (they could be wider)  Two extra modules could fit in the gap if space is available.  The hotel and station building would sit across modules and would help to hide the joins.  They would be constructed on separate plywood bases to drop in and out easily.

 

I need to lay out a paper plan and check that the points (and catch points) would fit within each of the module boards.

 

The six modules requite a length of 9 meters which is longer than I had anticipated.  It does look as though Penmaenpool would have to be an exhibition layout with an eventual home if and when I have the room.  One possibility is to make the layout L shaped with the curve provided by a corner module representing the gap between hotel and engine shed.

 

Ideas and suggestions are welcome!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're taking the exhibition path, here's some tips:

You know, I think you just put me off exhibiting!  But the tips and recommendations are truly taken on board.  I rather imagine that if and when the layout gets to this stage I would seek a local club that would be interested in helping out.  That club certainly won't be in France as Gauge O is not that popular, even though the scale is the same in both countries.  Ideally, though, I still imagine the best solution would be a fixed layout, built from modules because I don't have the space right now, with outdoor runs in a relatively non-hostile environment and plenty of dry weather in which to enjoy running it.

 

Hence the idea of building the two engine shed modules first as a diorama.  That will keep me busy for a while as I still intend to carry on building locomotives, etc.  Right now I am looking forward to starting some more kit and layout building when I return to France.  It's been a while.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I should add that at one time I used to run a stand at oil industry expositions in the US.  This involved a lot of setting up and pulling down, hard floors which kill knees, no time for coffee breaks, fine weather that kept everyone outside the exhibition hall and in the bars and cafés of New Orleans or San Francisco.

 

And when I think of San Francisco I remember the Unions who insisted their members put up my stand at double time rates on a Sunday afternoon.  As soon as they had finished I had to redo the entire stand, but the union men had gone home happy.  I did not break even on that one.  Other states were "right to work" which meant I could do all the work in half the time.

 

The hardest part for me was, literally, the floors.  Big service companies brought their own carpets and underlay and we used to spend what time we could enjoying the cushioned feeling of walking across their large booths.  During a recent visit to the NEC (Who Do You Think You Are Live) they had carpeting everywhere, even down the aisles.  What luxury!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

The 4mm model is by Geoff Taylor and there are photos of it on his GT Buildings website. Go to Yarmouth Junction 2 and activate the slide show using the link on the photo bottom left of the page. It is a superb bit of modelling and well worth a look. If I could work out how to do a link on this device I would!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4mm model is by Geoff Taylor and there are photos of it on his GT Buildings website. Go to Yarmouth Junction 2 and activate the slide show using the link on the photo bottom left of the page. It is a superb bit of modelling and well worth a look. If I could work out how to do a link on this device I would!

Thanks Tony, I have seen photos of the layout on Alan Buttler's Oswestry Works "blog" but could not remember Geoff Taylor's name. It is indeed superb. As I first saw Penmaenpool on a glorious sunny afternoon I will be modelling the layout in more sunny (rather than Welsh) conditions! I doubt if I can emulate Geoff's work in 7mm scale but my effort should be a good backdrop for my locos, etc.

 

Now to find that link!

 

Edit to add: http://www.gtbuildingsmodels.co.uk/page%203b%20barmouth%20junction%202.html

Edited by Focalplane
Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4mm model is by Geoff Taylor and there are photos of it on his GT Buildings website. Go to Yarmouth Junction 2 and activate the slide show using the link on the photo bottom left of the page. It is a superb bit of modelling and well worth a look. If I could work out how to do a link on this device I would!

 

I can tell you are an Eastern Region man!  Yarmouth in place of Barmouth!  You threw me for a moment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We arrived back in France yesterday after a journey including a terrifying half hour through a rain/hail storm near Toulouse.  The Ivatt 2MT has had a brief workout and performed well.  The sound chip is excellent and slow running is also very good. Here is the photo of the Ivatt as it moves down the incline past its future shed-mates:

 

post-20733-0-52236300-1494184768_thumb.jpg

 

For Penmaenpool the only current real shed mate is 1459, another Oswestry 89A loco.  In this case, 1459 has been released from storage inside Oswestry Works as a temporary replacement before a 74XX is available.  That will probably be an MOK kit which is very similar to the 14XX in design and build characteristics.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Next, I unboxed two of the four ex-GWR B Sets and to my surprise discovered they have interior lighting!  The composite and brake third combo was then attached to the Ivatt 2MT for a quick photo shoot:

 

post-20733-0-83123500-1494187805_thumb.jpg

 

post-20733-0-05593100-1494187834_thumb.jpg

 

post-20733-0-82725400-1494187865_thumb.jpg

 

post-20733-0-65609600-1494187893_thumb.jpg

 

All photos were taken with an iPhone using the lens in a "human" position close to ground level.

 

The coupling up of the loco and two coaches took more time than I would like.  Perhaps practice will improve my coupling skill but the temptation to replace the couplers between coaches with MagClics is very tempting.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have spent much of today playing with track and templates on the best way to fit Penmaenpool into a modular layout.  Tools include wallpaper liner rolls, Peco scaled templates, a 6 ft radius template and a rough measurement of the engine shed footprint.  It looks as though my modules can be relatively thin - 600mm to 750mm - and each one may be only 1400mm long, not 1500mm as previously envisaged.  For the engine shed area I may have to add the foreman's cottage as a backdrop half relief structure (it's partly hidden by the engine shed and a cutting anyway).

 

The baseboard structure has also been settled on - marine ply box frame following the surface contours with track bed, also of marine play, let into the framework.  The rest of the ground surface will accommodate the structures, mounted on marine ply boards with chicken wire and plaster cloth forming the undulating topography.

 

I also see that Lee Marsh has announced a limited edition brass model of the Manor Class.  Very tempting!  It would have to be 7822 Foxcote Manor for a number of reasons - preserved at Llangollen, was shedded at Oswestry, loads of photos working the Cambrian system, etc.  And, as an aside, the owner of Victoria Secret owns the actual manor house, not that that is, in any way, a reason!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...