Penmaenpool (Llyn Penmaen)

[Focalplane]

In between the blue words (see above) I have been thinking about Penmaenpool in a rectangular room.  The biggest problem is the entrance door, approximately midway along one long wall.  This will have to be rehung to swing outwards and then have a lifting bridge installed to allow for continuous running.  I could simply remove the door and replace it with a heavy black curtain.

 

Although a continuous circuit is envisaged, the truth is that this would not be prototypical, so I am going to add two fiddle yards, representing Dolgelley and Barmouth Junction.  There is no turntable in the area but tender engines were turned at Barmouth Junction (beyond Dolgelley the nearest turntable would be at Wrexham).  So my Legge Lane turntable will be installed at the Barmouth Junction fiddle yard.  Points leading to the fiddle yards will be either side of the lifting bridge.  And to fit them in, there will be inclines down to the lifting bridge and then down, again, to the fiddle yards, which may be located under the scenic half of the layout.  This would require a drop of around 15 cm over a length of 15 meters, or 1:100, though I may find this to be optimistic.  Generally the trains will be short - perhaps a maximum of 4 coaches -  so the fiddle yards won't have to be very long and the inclines should be workable.  It also looks like the fiddle yards will have to be installed first, so a few packs of Peco track will be a priority.

 

The logical place for the turntable would be at the end of the Barmouth Junction fiddle yard, with a release road.  But this would bring up the problem of uncoupling the loco when under the baseboards of the scenic section - impossible with scale couplers.  So perhaps the turntable would best be installed at the beginning of the fiddle yards, the sidings being on a large hidden sector place beyond the (accessible) turntable.

 

In which case, a Barmouth train from Ruabon would pass through Penmaenpool and then be switched off the continuous circuit into the fiddle yard.  The locomotive would then be uncoupled and turned and driven off into a short holding road.  The turntable would then be moved to allow hand-of-god movement of the coaches across the turntable and onto the selected sector plate siding.  Not all trains need to be turned - an autotrain being the obvious example - so they would simply be shunted across the turntable and then wait for the next UP movement to Dolgelley.  Light engine movements to and from Penmaenpool shed would also be possible using this layout.

 

So it looks as though I am going to be busy during the holidays.  At least I already have accurate architectural drawings of the railway room to be.

[coachmann]

As to the coach's livery, there is evidence that carmine and cream would have been correct, though even this is circumspect as the photo on Flickr has been colourized.  The photo even has 1459 in it!

Apparently and backed up by photos in J H Russell's books, the auto trailers initially got BR carmine & cream. Then Riddles contacted the Western Region (circa 1953?) to tell them it should stop, as these vehicles should only carry unlined carmine. Seeing as the elderly wood panelled would be marked down for withdrawal within a few years, a few that got carmine & cream early on may have received carmine red before their general demise by 1957.  

 

My reason for inquiring if the model was maroon is, I will have to establish if the glazing could be easily removed for re-spraying the coach body.  If not, then a GWR livery coach would be purchased and the lower half resprayed carmine.

[Focalplane]

My reason for inquiring if the model was maroon is, I will have to establish if the glazing could be easily removed for re-spraying the coach body.  If not, then a GWR livery coach would be purchased and the lower half resprayed carmine.

 

The glazing was one part of the coach I knew I did not have to remove, so I did not try.  The seating and internal walls would have to come out first, though, and it seemed to me that some glue had been used in fixing them onto the floor.  Either that or a lot of bending of the side walls to release the internal parts.  So, it could be difficult.

 

I will PM you with a copy of the colourized photo at Oswestry.

[coachmann]

The glazing was one part of the coach I knew I did not have to remove, so I did not try.  The seating and internal walls would have to come out first, though, and it seemed to me that some glue had been used in fixing them onto the floor.  Either that or a lot of bending of the side walls to release the internal parts.  So, it could be difficult.

 

I will PM you with a copy of the colourized photo at Oswestry.

Thanks Paul. It looks like your information has settled it then. a GWR version it will have to be.

 

PS: I have just seen your PM with the picture. Very good colorization too. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by coachmann

[Marshall5]

Thanks for posting the photos of your new Dapol auto-trailer, Paul.  I had hoped that the website photos were the old Lionheart ones and the "maroon" description was in error - it wouldn't be the first time that "carmine", "crimson lake" and "maroon" have been confused.  As I understand it all non-corridor stock was meant to be painted in unlined carmine although as Larry says some may have been actually turned out in "blood & custard".  The last of these cars was withdrawn in 1957 so i would think it most unlikely that any of last survivors would have warranted re-painting in the recently introduced maroon.  It is a pity, therefore, that Dapol issued this model in the incorrect,maroon rather than unlined carmine or, at a push, "blood & custard".

If you've not seen them there are two very good articles in MRJ # 212 & 221 about this model and how to improve it.  Best of luck with your house move - jealous of your new model room!

Cheers,

Ray.

[coachmann]

Having looked at the choc & cream auto Trailer, the cream would need spraying over if I were to spray the bottom half carmine red. So it looks like the maroon one for me and I'll see what can be done about making it look more carmine. 

[Focalplane]

In preparation for the move in January, Legge Lane (my engine shed, loco test track layout) was ripped up today. The turntable will serve a new role as the Barmouth Junction triple junction turning point for Barmouth tender locos. But it not be scenic, just part of the fiddle yard..

[Focalplane]

I have a thousand ideas spinning around my head for the soon to be railway room (7m x 4.5m).  The main theme remains Penmaenpool.  Two fiddle yards with inclines sounds too time consuming to me, when I could have a simple contiinuous circuit with four loops on the non-scenic side and a simple spur off the innermost loop to my turntable for turning and storing locos.  The loops would be several meters long, capable of holding two trains per loop  Ruabon-Barmouth express locos would turn on the turntable after leaving Penmaenpool to return to the shed at the end of the day.  One loop could hold two freights (Up and Down), another the local passenger with additional stock in the middle.  The outer loop would be for continuous running.

 

The four loops would require a lifting section in the middle in order to enter and leave the room without too much difficulty, particularly when carrying stuff.  My policy of walking about 5 kilometers a day and using the stairs instead of the lift is going to pay off when it comes to ducking under a layout.  With no inclines the stock shouldn't roll around and simple safeguards can be used to keep cherished locos where they belong, not upside down on the floor!

 

I would still use the L Girder system, mainly because the scenic section will be hilly above plus the estuary will be "below".  This would also allow modifications at a later date.

 

Next would the possibility of re-instating Shipston-on-Stour in 4mm scale, using new baseboards and RTR track, etc.  I have a lot of stock for this enterprise and also the buildings, originally built by SteveNCB7745, which were built after being scaled off prior to removal from the site.  Steve is an old Shipstonian and lived across the road from the yard.  I owe it to him to complete this project.  It would be portable (using the Grainge and Hodder boards) and would not need to be in place all the time.  It could even be an exhibition layout but I am not at all sure where the nearest show is held.

 

So, out with Adobe Illustrator over the holidays.

[Focalplane]

While out walking this afternoon I could hear trains running on the main line between Narbonne and Perpignan.  This reminded me of my earlier drive into Perpignan to buy cardboard boxes for the future removal.  Near the village of Fitou the Route Nationale, Autoroute A9 and the railway all skirt the Corbiere Mountains adjacent to the coastal lagoon.  The railway track negotiates a number of reverse curves and this morning I saw three trains while driving.  The first was a regional EMU, then a TGV going south which crossed with another TGV going north.  It is quite clear that these curves are heavily canted to allow 160 kph running.

 

So what has this to do with the new plans for Penmaenpool, you may ask?  It's simply that there will be 6 foot radius 90º curves at each end of the station, unlike the real thing, and they will look much more realistic if they are superelevated.  Trains will lean into the curves.

 

Creating a superelevated track bed is most easily done with the L Girder construction, each pillar under the track bed being angled to provide the most realistic tilt.  And that is what I was thinking about while walking today!

[Miss Prism]

 

 

[coachmann]

Creating a superelevated track bed is most easily done with the L Girder construction, each pillar under the track bed being angled to provide the most realistic tilt.  And that is what I was thinking about while walking today!

That is what I found and so no matter how many times track is lifted, the foundation with the tilt is always there.  Track through Carrog station platforms, and indeed all my previous layouts, was done the hard way using an electric sander to form individual super-elevations on strips of 1/8" cork sheet for Up and Down tracks. 

[Focalplane]

There was, in fact, a degree of super-elevation to the west of Penmaenpool, as seen in this photo:

 

 

I am not sure of the origin of this (I made a screen grab of it sometime ago) but it was clearly in the 1950s when moguls were most common on through express workings.  (Note to Coachmann, you might need more than one mogul for Carrog!)

 

The super-elevation is very obvious and yet on the ordnance survey map the curve is not very pronounced.

 

Also evident on this photo is the railway cutting that will successfully hide the train as it nears the end of the scenic area.  There is no such screen at the eastern end of the station so Rule 1 may have to apply.

[coachmann]

There was, in fact, a degree of super-elevation to the west of Penmaenpool, as seen in this photo:

 

Superelevation.jpg

 

I am not sure of the origin of this (I made a screen grab of it sometime ago) but it was clearly in the 1950s when moguls were most common on through express workings.  (Note to Coachmann, you might need more than one mogul for Carrog!)

 

The super-elevation is very obvious and yet on the ordnance survey map the curve is not very pronounced.

 

Also evident on this photo is the railway cutting that will successfully hide the train as it nears the end of the scenic area.  There is no such screen at the eastern end of the station so Rule 1 may have to apply.

The curve is actually quite sharp because, as can be seen, the third coach is not in view. Camber is part and parcel of real railway lines, but a surprising number of layout builders simply ignore it. 

 

You are right about needing two 43XX 2-6-0's. Two Grange locos covered on 4mm Carrog.

[Andrew P]

Paul, I would have thought that a Level Track platform, and then packing under the outer edge of the Track may be better, this is what I have done on the KM revers curves, and on previous Layouts.

The reason I say this is so that the outside ballast is larger and shows the cant off better IMHO.

[coachmann]

Paul, I would have thought that a Level Track platform, and then packing under the outer edge of the Track may be better, this is what I have done on the KM revers curves, and on previous Layouts.

The reason I say this is so that the outside ballast is larger and shows the cant off better IMHO.

Drainage old boy......

[Focalplane]

The beauty of the L Girder construction can be demonstrated like this. If the platforms are on a curve (which they were) then they can be four separate strips of plywood or MDF, each separated and mated to separate up rights. From inner to outer:

 

Flat curved base for UP platform

 

Super-elevated UP track base, tilted

 

Super-elevated DOWN track base, tilted but with axis at same level as UP track base

 

Flat curved bade for DOWN platform which would be extended into the single goods yard siding.

 

This should imply that the two platforms end up at nearly but not quite the same elevation.

 

Having walked the track bed west of the standing Foreman’s house, the curve is certainly evident so Larry’s observation is correct. But it’s not a scale 6ft radius!

[Focalplane]

With all my railway stuff boxed up for a January house move, this is the best I can do to wish all my RMWeb friends a very Merry Christmas.  Maybe next year we can have a railway theme.  I sure hope so.

 

 

Canigou from Vernet les Bains

[Andrew P]

With all my railway stuff boxed up for a January house move, this is the best I can do to wish all my RMWeb friends a very Merry Christmas.  Maybe next year we can have a railway theme.  I sure hope so.

 

Christmas 2017.jpg

 

Canigou from Vernet les Bains

Great Card Paul, thanks, scrunched up Kitchen Towel and Woodlands Scenics perhaps? hahha

Edited December 16, 2017 by Andrew P

[Focalplane]

Now in North Wales, very grey but also relaxing with time to think about the new railway room.

 

The latest idea is not a new one, but it has occurred to me that as well as Penmaenpool being set in the late 1950s, the layout could also represent a fictional heritage railway.  Let's just suppose that the line from Dolgelley to Barmouth Junction has stayed open (or was re-opened) and offered a similar experience that the Llangollen Railway does today.  Penmaenpool would be retained as a preserved station much as Carrog is today.  The engine shed would be used to accommodate visiting locos (such as preserved Jubilee Polyphemus and Castle Sir Daniel Gooch) along with rakes of suitable coaches stored at Dolgelley.  A different timetable would be in force, with large tender engines running backwards half the time.  And they would all be kept very clean!

 

We'll see how this idea stays alive over the holidays!

[Andrew P]

Now in North Wales, very grey but also relaxing with time to think about the new railway room.

 

The latest idea is not a new one, but it has occurred to me that as well as Penmaenpool being set in the late 1950s, the layout could also represent a fictional heritage railway.  Let's just suppose that the line from Dolgelley to Barmouth Junction has stayed open (or was re-opened) and offered a similar experience that the Llangollen Railway does today.  Penmaenpool would be retained as a preserved station much as Carrog is today.  The engine shed would be used to accommodate visiting locos (such as preserved Jubilee Polyphemus and Castle Sir Daniel Gooch) along with rakes of suitable coaches stored at Dolgelley.  A different timetable would be in force, with large tender engines running backwards half the time.  And they would all be kept very clean!

 

We'll see how this idea stays alive over the holidays!

I like the preserved idea Paul, some nice shiny Green Locos.

[Focalplane]

I like the preserved idea Paul, some nice shiny Green Locos.

Thanks Andy

 

I have a few loco kits to build that would never have been seen at Penmaenpool in real life, as well as a 6 to 8 coach set for the Midlander in crimson and cream. It would also allow me to tackle the Finney7 kit of the Princess Coronation in order to bring to life the static exhibit of City of Birmingham; that’s the only way I am ever going to see the third preserved loco actually move again.

 

Paul

[coachmann]

If you are considering a 'funny hour', a heritage line from Barmouth Junction to Dolgelley would give you a mainline link with the Cambrian Coast to Shrewsbury section and bring with it the possibility of through traffic including diesels.

[Andrew P]

I see that Larry bloke starting to put ideas in your head Paul, hahahah    

[Focalplane]

Diesels? No way! (Famous last words)

[Focalplane]

It looks as though the Railway Room with house attached may be ours in a few days.  Meantime I have done some thinking about Penmaenpool with minimum 1.8m curves.  And I have finally understood some of the finer points of using Anyrail software, for which I will need to buy the license and have access to the full compliment of tools with no size constraint.

 

The house will need some attention before I attack the railway room, so it will probably be a few weeks more before I get started on baseboard construction.

 

Paul