kirtleypete Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 At the weekend I bought an 0 gauge MTH SNCF 141P locomotive, but when I got it home there was no instruction booklet. The DCC address is 3, and I want to change it to the loco number. According to the manual on the MTH website you can only programme their loco's on the main, you can't use a programming track. That's fine for changing CV's, but how do you change a loco address using POM? If I can't change the address from 3 it prevents me buying any more of their engines. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 http://mthtrains.com/news/037 Says you can use programme track to change address, I'd give that a whirl first. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 3, 2017 At the weekend I bought an 0 gauge MTH SNCF 141P locomotive, but when I got it home there was no instruction booklet. The DCC address is 3, and I want to change it to the loco number. According to the manual on the MTH website you can only programme their loco's on the main, you can't use a programming track. That's fine for changing CV's, but how do you change a loco address using POM? If I can't change the address from 3 it prevents me buying any more of their engines. Peter I'm not clear what the problem is with POM to change an address, as it is my default action. I get very annoyed with decoders that won't! Perhaps my Digitrax system makes it easier than some others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 All right, I'll come clean! I bought the loco at Lille exhibition on Sunday - when I got it home there was no booklet. It ran perfectly at first. Yesterday I put it on my programming track - not having done the sensible thing and looked at the online manual first - and tried to change the address. Not only did the address not change, the loco stopped working - it was completely dead. I tried everything - factory reset, etc....nothing worked. This morning it has gone back to MTH to be sorted out. This is the second MTH loco I've bought and the second one that has gone wrong. I shouldn't have used the programming track, but that shouldn't destroy all the electrics in the damn engine! I use Lenz DCC, and as far as I can see you can't use POM to change the address. It's a shame, because the loco is a beauty, a really good model. It wasn't cheap, though, and having spent that amount on it I expect it to work and keep working. I've asked MTH to change the address for me when they repair the loco - fingers crossed! Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 The NMRA DCC specs allow for changing the address using POM. Some system designers decided not to allow it in their command stations and/or decoders. If you have a decoder that supports it then you need to use a command station that generates the correct packets. If the decoder doesn't support it, you can't do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 (edited) It seems crazy to sell a range of loco's, all given the number 3, on which it may not be possible to alter the address. Then there's the bizarre fact that the SNCF 2-8-2 is built to 1/43 scale and the 2-10-0 is 1/45th! Pete Edited May 3, 2017 by kirtleypete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 It seems crazy to sell a range of loco's, all given the number 3, on which it may not be possible to alter the address. Then there's the bizarre fact that the SNCF 2-8-2 is built to 1/43 scale and the 2-10-0 is 1/45th! Pete But 3 is the default DCC address for loco decoders. MTH have their own digital system, DCS, which is different to DCC. Their decoders are suppposed to work with DCC, but being multi-protocol, there may be differences in programming procedures from "normal" DCC. Looking at the MTH website, they seem to differentiate between products made to different standards using different MTH "straplines" and part numbers, which might explain the scale difference to which you referred. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 I know number 3 is the default, but you are supposed to be able to reprogramme the engine! Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 MTH were the first to release the SD70Ace in MRL so I rushed out & purchased 3 As these were to be run as a permanent set of 3 with 2 facing forwards & 1 facing backwards I gave them all the same number I tried to set CV29 in the backward facing unit so it will run backwards with a forward throttle setting (this failed & I gave up in disgust & replaced the DC/DCS/DCC decoder with a standard DCC decoder) This is when my joy turned to frustration & I decided to avoid MTH like the plague I've weakened a few times when there was no other choice (Bi-Poler, Little Joe & a couple of steamers) or were on sale (F7 ABBA set, CV29 was programmable on these more recent purchases) As I recall all these loco's were programed on the main with Digitrax DCC John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 Confession time - there was nothing wrong with my MTH engine, other than the fact that I didn't know the right way of doing things. With a normal DCC engine, you just plonk it onto the programming track and off you go. With an MTH engine, you have to switch it on first by pressing 3 twice on the controller which is why they recommend programming on the main. If you try to change the address without switching on the engine you get ERR02. The procedure is to place the engine on the track, either the layout or the programming track, and first turn it on using normal track power. Once the loco is turned on you can then change the address in the normal way. I don't think the instruction booklet makes this at all clear, but with hindsight I suppose it's obvious because you have to do it every time you run the loco....pressing 3 twice shuts down the engine at the end of a running session so it turns off the sound, smoke and lights. It's actually a pretty good idea - ideal for loco's in the fiddle yard for instance. When the loco has it's new address you still use 3 to turn it on and off. Phew! It's been a stressful week but finally I've got my head around the MTH way of doing things. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I don't think that's obvious at all. In fact, I think it's a stupid way of doing it. Most/all (?) sound decoders have a startup and shut down sequence to mimic the real life loco but I don't know of any that require you use it for programming. Some can be set to start up as soon as power is present or only when they see a packet addressed to them. Again, this is independent of programming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 It's only MTH, they've even got their own control system called DCS. They've had to be dragged kicking and screaming to incorporate DCC as well. Having said all that, the loco runs like a dream and does everything they say it will do. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) The NMRA DCC specs allow for changing the address using POM. Some system designers decided not to allow it in their command stations and/or decoders. If you have a decoder that supports it then you need to use a command station that generates the correct packets. If the decoder doesn't support it, you can't do it. I have found no problems writing to Hornby decoders CVs 1, 17 & 18 on the main when the normal prog track method was being iffy using Hornby Elite. Other systems and decoders may not follow suit as stated. Edit - is this MTH loco the one with the 468 page manual and very odd 'do this to make that happen' sequences. If so there was a long discussion about getting it to work on the Hornby forum some time ago. Edited May 13, 2017 by RAFHAAA96 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 There is a big manual, but it has to cover 3 rail DC, 2 rail DC, DCS and DCC! In fact the DCC section is very well written and easy to follow. Once you understand their way of doing things it's all logical and works well; the problem we have is that Lenz DCC does not allow you to change the loco address using POM. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 I'm finally getting to the bottom of this. You can change the loco address using POM by changing CV1. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 I'm with Dutch Master on this. Bin the MTH electronics and install a proper compliant DCC decoder. My feelings towards MTH and their business practices would also get me banned from RMweb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 If I pay £1400 for a model I expect it to work, I'm not spending another £200 on top on a new decoder. If you buy a new TV or fridge you expect it to work as promised - why should a loco be any different? I've heard from MTH this morning; they are currently turning round repairs in about six weeks which suggests that either their repair department isn't very big, or an awful lot of models are being sent back to them. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I'm finally getting to the bottom of this. You can change the loco address using POM by changing CV1. That's only the short address. To change the long address you need to be able to change CV17 and 18. Some background: The concern in changing the long address using POM is that you need to know the address in order to write to the address CVs. If you write to CV18 or CV17 then you have changed half of the address, so which address do you write to to change the other half? Fortunately, the DCC specs allow for this. So long as you write CV17 and CV18 in the correct order (with no other writes intervening) the address will only be updated after you have written to both CVs. Unfortunately, some system/decoder manufacturers prevent this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 The short address will do - keep it simple!Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 Don't forget that CV 29 has to be set to indicate that you are using a long address In my first MTH HO diesels I couldn't change the part of CV29 that allows the loco would go backwards when given a forward instruction John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelrow Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 My lady wife with help from my US based son, has just bought me a MTH GE ES44AC loco with pro sound 3 for xmas. Read this thread, with interest. It says on MTH site that you can use prog track, but you may need a booster. I have an Elite, also Railmaster. Am i right in assuming that Elite will happily run this loco. john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 The recent models allow the use of the programming track John, but to be honest now I'm used to it I find POM is just as convenient. I have no idea about a booster, and have no experience of an Elite...what make is that?Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelrow Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Hi, Peter, its Hornbys own, but fully compliant etc, and about £240 new. Loco, , . was bought new on 28th july, (shop early, for xmas) in my family , so may be ok on prog track, but apparently needs more current than normal prog track. I would know more, if allowed to read all relevant instructions, that have been locked away with loco. Think the only other prob may be getting all the 29 functions. happy days. john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirtleypete Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 I should use POM if there's any doubt John. When you are allowed to read the book it will tell you everything you need to know, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2017 It seems crazy to sell a range of loco's, all given the number 3, on which it may not be possible to alter the address. Then there's the bizarre fact that the SNCF 2-8-2 is built to 1/43 scale and the 2-10-0 is 1/45th! Pete Sorry for a late reply on this. But the answer is fairly obvious (if slightly unsatisfactory). The 2-10-0 is a German loco. They reckon to sell far more of it in its German livery than as an SNCF 150X. So they make it to the German version of 0, 1:45. The 141P is a French loco so they make it to the French standard of 0, 1:43.5. As Americans, MTH might have made them to 1:48! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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