Starting from scratch

[Jongudmund]

OK. If I'm going to do this and build railway once I have reclaimed my garden from the triffids, what's the best thing to start with?

 

I want to go large as that's kind of the point really. What are the merits/demerits of the various starter packs out there?

 

Really appreciate any input. You don't need to go into long explanations (unless you want to) - just what you'd start with if you were starting now.

 

Many thanks.

[Narrow Minded]

Hmmm, taking "just what you'd start with if you were starting now" as the key point, I'd pretty much repeat what I've done this time round, especially if you're interested in "starter packs" and you're talking large scale.

An LGB / Toytrain starter set plus a couple of Sidings extension track packs will provide you with everything you need to make a start in the garden (and acclimatize you to the huge leap in size from the 'indoor scales' which can be quite a shock to some people ), a loco, some stock, power supply and an oval of track with a passing loop.

 

Once you've taken the plunge, the most often repeated mantra is "get something running"

Because of the nature of garden railway building (ie you're at the mercy of nature ), it's the tonic that'll keep you going!

[vjoneslong]

Hmm a very tricky post - how long is a piece of string?

 

It depends what you want to model or where your interests are.

 

I ended up going 32mm as I was sold a IP engineering Jane and a old modified mamod as a teenager which were both 32mm. However, sometimes I wish I had gone 45mm just because the amount of pointwork, chassis, etc available to you for kitbashing etc is so much greater. What I am doing now is having a small amount of "re-gaugable" stock which I can swap between 32 and 45 which will enable me to visit both kinds of lines. 

 

The other thing to consider is whether you want Narrow Gauge or Standard Gauge. Narrow Gauge allows you to get lots in a tight space, but if you are predominantly interested in standard gauge, you may find your interest waxing in the long term. Although I am predominantly interested in standard gauge, I was lucky that I found a nice little niche in the Welshpool & Llanfair Railway which has more than peaked and sustained my interest. If your interested in standard gauge, then that leaves Gauge 1 and Gauge 3. You can still have a small layout in these scales, but it seems that everything shoots up in price in these scales - its the same sort of relationship as swapping OO for O gauge. There is also alot less readily available stock in these scales, so getting a train off the shelf is much harder.

 

Another thing to consider is construction - how are you going to build it? Raised or ground level? Do you rent or own? If you rent you want something thats easily dismantled if you have to move. When I lived in rented accommodation dug a channel around the edge of the lawn and used guttering, filled with pea shingle, to lay the track on. This worked fine for the first six months it was laid, but became a real pain as the track shifted during summer and winter. Thats why I'm building my latest line out of blocks and concrete - I hate doing track maintenance so I'm trying to minimise it as possible. Wooden track bed is perfectly feasible and okay, but will require some annual maintenance to prevent rot etc. 

 

Sorry if this is all depressing, but having a good think about what you want to do can help keep the interest going. From my own experience there is nothing more demoralising than a half completed layout/project. I also subscribe to NM's theory (perhaps we should call it Greg's principle), get something running quickly. There are going to be days when you really can't be bothered with building and just plodding a train down and having a play can bring that enthusiasm back.

 

I suggest you have a look the various societies webpages. If you can, see if you can find someone locally that has a line and go and have a look. You never know, you might make a friend who will help you build your line (I really do wish I had an extra pair of hands sometimes who could do some lifting as SWMBO is useless).

 

http://www.16mm.org.uk/

http://gscalesociety.com/

http://www.g1mra.com/

http://www.gauge3.org.uk/

 

For some bed time reading, you could always invest in some of these?

http://www.16mm.org.uk/publications/new-members-handbook/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garden-Railway-Manual-The-Complete-Step-By-Step-Guide-to-Building-and-Running-a-/391701163269?hash=item5b33356d05:g:C70AAOSwtfhYnbdg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Practical-Garden-Railways-Peter-Jones/1861268335/ref=la_B0034PF9R2_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1494921949&sr=1-1

 

Don't be afraid to ask questions, and if you are ever in the Nottingham area, please do drop by for a cup of tea. Its a pity I don't live in Swansea anymore!

[Jongudmund]

Thanks both. It's not depressing - my indoor efforts have stalled because I didn't get to the running point. So that's good advice.

 

One thing I have noticed is that the sell on market seems quite strong so I can start with something and then move on.

[Jongudmund]

I have seen a Playmobil set reduced to £66 from RRP £120. You get a yellow diesel (which I've seen being used on some layouts on here) plus a wagon. It's battery powered and radio controlled which I like the look of because reading through other people's stories it seems like the way to go.

 

The plastic track doesn't look great but I could look into buying some metalled rails. It would be something to get me going at least. And it's compatible with LGB etc.

 

So what do you all think? Should I go back in and buy it some time in the next couple of days?

[Nearholmer]

That Playmobil set is a bargain at full price, so an absolute stunner at £66. The radio control that is provided is better than some things that cost many times that price. Go for it!

 

The loco and wagon are entirely compatible with LGB, and it is usually possible to buy LGB R1 points and curves at good prices secondhand, because people move up to larger radii as they progress. You can also sell on the plastic track, because it is popular for children .... it's dead easy for them to use, and it doesn't hurt so much when you stand on it!

 

LGB track can be used in the garden with barely any ground preparation (works well on a well-mown lawn, for instance) and is very robust. Mine has been used in three gardens, has been outside for nearly twenty years, and shows no signs of decay. It looKs expensive, until you factor longevity in.

 

The one caution is that this will wed you to 45mm gauge, which not everyone likes.

 

Track power in the garden is a bit of a pain, because it involves a fair bit of cleaning, and I got fed up with it after about two years, and have been 'steam land battery' since. It works for some people, but not lazy bods like me!

 

In terms of trackbed, I've progressed from a scrape in the dirt, by way of various wooden constructions, to a low 9" wall, made from engineering brick, over the years. Wood I found to be very troublesome, but there are now recycled plastic sections available which overcome the rot problem, and I think if I was starting again on a long-lasting trackbed, I'd use them instead of brick, which is a bit OTT.

 

Oh, and get it running! Which you can inside an hour with that Playmobil set.

 

Kevin

 

PS: just noticed that you'd seen my other Playmobil advert!

Edited July 25, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Jongudmund]

Thanks Nearholmer.

 

I have a bit of inspiration overload at the moment. But this is a project I have been thinking about for ages.

[Jongudmund]

OK. I bought the Playmobil set. Discussed it with my wife who said I'd regret it if I didn't. If she was a bit better she would have gone in and bought it as a surprise.

 

Haven't opened it yet but will post some pics.

 

There were a couple more in-store also priced at £66. This was in Hamley's, Cardiff.

 

Big scale trains here I come...

[Jongudmund]

I've got it put the box and had a run. It's a solid piece of kit and comes with sound effects for when it's standing still, head and tail lights that switch when you change direction and a horn. The wagon is very nice too, with drop sides and some crates. Very happy with this.

[Sturminster_Newton]

See my piece on smallest gauge in the garden.

 

Do not start early but visit as many garden lines as you can, do a lot of looking and ask a LOT of questions.

 

Every single line has pros and cons.

 

My garden is 300' long but only 16' wide at one end although its 60' wide at it's furthest point.

 

Standard gauge see GRS Garden Railway Specialists at Princes Risborough. 63mm is the new gauge 3 true 1:22.3 and equates to the G scale 1:22.5 so all the G-scale accessories are transferable. You can also model in Narrow gauge using LGB?PIKO mechanisms or battery electric. A BLT will fit into a modern garden and still leave space for a roundy roundy loop

 

After that its the smaller of the model engineering scales talk to Maxitrak as they amongst others offer kit built diesel outline electrics or proper coal fired live steam. Choose 4.75" for 1"/ft standard gauge or 5" and 1.75"/ft SG or scale at 2"/ft and have a 2'6" narrow gauge line.

 

Get in the biggest you can afford.

 

Do not build it down a fence/border line.

 

Build it along the centre line of the garden.

 

Weave it back and forth across the space.

 

This will also break up the garden and give new areas to cultivate for new plants and environments

 

Set access paths to avoid come to a dead-end or go over the line.

 

5" NG will 'turn' in a 8-10' radius so should go fence to fence in most gardens if built as a scenic railway. IF you want to ride on then you'll need a wider garden 30' or work out and back like a leisure line, hard work on the neck and shoulders.

 

Above all only put in what you can maintain easily or it will never be fully operational...the voice of experience. Ivy can and will bend LGB/PIKO .300 section rail vertically out of alignment a good reason NOT to use lighter section or aluminimum. You have been cautioned.

 

You are about to make a BIG investment in time effort tears and money. So make sure that you can enjoy it properly.

 

It has to be admitted that a set of rails leading off down through a scenic area jogs memories and engages many in the hazy memory of long summer afternoons waiting for a train. So you don't even need rolling stock...

 

Even if your line turns out to be a three pieces of Mamod track buried in cement leading to a mine entry with the rusting hulks of a V tippers hiding under a dwarf azalea.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Sturminster_Newton

[IanT]

"63mm is the new gauge 3 true 1:22.3 and equates to the G scale 1:22.5 so all the G-scale accessories are transferable."

 

​News to me - The Gauge 3 society track standard is 63.5mm (2.5") and if you buy track from Cliff Barker (recommended) then that is what you will get. It is also what every G3 modeller I know uses, both in their garden railways and exhibition tracks. This works out to a correct scale of 1:22.6 which I agree, is certainly near enough to 'G' scale (at 1:22.5) for both to use common accessories.

 

GRS were an early supporter of G3 but there are now many other G3 suppliers around these days, including Williams Models, Walsall Industries, Slaters and others. I'd recommend a look at Western Thunder (in the G3 section) to see some very nice examples of G3 modelling - but it's possible to make much simpler G3 models too - whatever takes your fancy.

 

Regards,

 

IanT 

[Sturminster_Newton]

"63mm is the new gauge 3 true 1:22.3 and equates to the G scale 1:22.5 so all the G-scale accessories are transferable."

 

​News to me - The Gauge 3 society track standard is 63.5mm (2.5") and if you buy track from Cliff Barker (recommended) then that is what you will get. It is also what every G3 modeller I know uses, both in their garden railways and exhibition tracks. This works out to a correct scale of 1:22.6 which I agree, is certainly near enough to 'G' scale (at 1:22.5) for both to use common accessories.

 

GRS were an early supporter of G3 but there are now many other G3 suppliers around these days, including Williams Models, Walsall Industries, Slaters and others. I'd recommend a look at Western Thunder (in the G3 section) to see some very nice examples of G3 modelling - but it's possible to make much simpler G3 models too - whatever takes your fancy.

 

Regards,

 

IanT 

New as in squeezing it to 1:22.5 to fit in with the mainstream G-scale brigade.

 

G-scale is not beyond tweaking every dimension apart from Cab door dimensions to fit within the narrow gauge dynamic envelope see the various G-scale mainline locomotives which are compressed to suit 45mm gauge and loading gauge when they should be somewhat larger on every dimension. Santa Fe FA+FB units being smaller so they appear 'correct' on 45mm track.

 

LGB Stainz being to pretty much 16mm scale.

 

In boat muddling terms such representations are stand-off scale, valid in their own sphere; much like Marklin My World HO,

 

But not quite up to rubbing shoulders with true scale models on 63.5 rails.

[IanT]

I'm not sure I really understand your point N_S.  I've always viewed 'G' (e.g. Metre Gauge on 45mm) as being essentially the same scale as G3. Of course, some US manufacturers have played fast & loose with "G" scale - so I do understand that bit.

 

Fortunately in Gauge '3' we are unusual (unique?) in that we just have a single gauge & a single scale (63.5 & 1:22.6).  There is no 'fine' scale vs 'coarse', 10mm vs 1/32, 00/EM/P4 - or numerous different N/G 'gauges' being squeezed onto either 45mm or 32mm track - all called "16mm".

 

But clearly other folk are happy with the scale and gauge combinations they have chosen and that's great, I'm delighted for them.  So if someone wants to model standard gauge railways at 1:22.5 on 63mm track - then I'd wish them well too (although I'd be puzzled as to why?)

 

However, in my view - by definition - it wouldn't be "Gauge 3" - it would be something else...

 

Regards,

 

IanT 

[MacDuff999]

• Just discovered your post(s)  J/Mund (OK 3 years later!). I have been modelling in 4mm for quite a while, but am seriously thinking of doing a feasibility exercise on a bit of outdoor 'O' gauge. Don't know how far (presumably) you have progressed since your initial post. I noticed you live (still?) in Cardiff, which is where I am. I guess you may have made contact with Cardiff Model Engineering Society at Heath Park by now? It would be interesting to know how far you have progressed to date.