Martin Finny Dean Goods

[shellshock]

As promised last year I am now ready to make a start on the Martin Finny Dean Goods. The model I wish to make is of number 2350 in the time period of the 1920's. Now I am asking a favour of any members of this forum for information as to details such as coupling rods plain or fluted, cab type, smoke box, firebox, steps, reversing rod, chimney, top feed, balance weights, lamp brackets.

From the instructions it would appear that 2350 as built 1885 had a narrow footplate with plain coupling rods with a original S2 type boiler. Of course this changed over time.

Hope some one can help out thanks in advance.

[Horsetan]

What will you do with the leftover etches when you've finished? There looks to be enough material there to squeeze a second engine out!

[Nimbus]

What will you do with the leftover etches when you've finished? There looks to be enough material there to squeeze a second engine out!

With luck, they'll be just what someone is looking for to sort their Oxford one out.

 

The Nim.

[brossard]

You might want to see if you can get a copy of MRJ Compendium 3.  In it Martin Blackwell describes how he got two locos out of the Finney kit. 

 

John

[Guest Lyonesse]

You might want to see if you can get a copy of MRJ Compendium 3.  In it Martin Blackwell describes how he got two locos out of the Finney kit. 

 

John

He and his brother, IIRC.

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to this build as I have one myself ready for the off.  I even have a full set of Ultrascales.

[brossard]

He and his brother, IIRC.

 

 

 

You are right, these are difficult to get.    However, over the years I did manage to get a copy of all 3 compendiums (compendia?).

 

I'm happy to share if you drop me a PM with your email.

 

John

[Horsetan]

You are right, these are difficult to get. ...

They do pop up on eBay every now and then, not always at extortionate prices.

[brossard]

I've found Gary at British Railway Books to be helpful in filling out my MRJ collection:

 

http://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/

 

John

[Dave Holt]

Once you've got the Compendium, all you need is the CNC lathe and milling machine........

Edited May 22, 2017 by Dave Holt

[Horsetan]

Once you've got the Compendium, all you need is the CNC lathe and milling machine........

 

Not sure he'll need the latter two, as he'd have the benefit of parts already available via Brassmasters.

[The Fatadder]

With one of these in the to do pile I will also be watching with interest.

[shellshock]

The first thing I did was to make up the coupling rods when I made the fork joint I used a pin to apply oil to the centre of the joint and then carefully soldered the outer inside face of the joint pin  this ensured that it did not jam up with solder going where it is not required. I then fettled the horn block to each bearing and after I had soldered them on to the chassis sides I marked up the bearings so that they only go in to the horn block I have fettled up to suit. This I did on my Avonside chassis jig which I set up using the assembled coupling rods. So all being well I should have a chassis that runs true. The next task will be the chassis spacers and then the compensating arms.

[brossard]

Nice to see progress.  I do like the Avonside, very useful.  I'm seeing what look like hornguides and blocks on all axles.  You mention compensation, did you lock the driven axle bearings?

 

John

[shellshock]

Nice to see progress.  I do like the Avonside, very useful.  I'm seeing what look like hornguides and blocks on all axles.  You mention compensation, did you lock the driven axle bearings?

 

John

The driven axle will be the rear drivers and they will be free to pivot on the rear compensation beams similar to the arrangement I did on the Hall.

[shellshock]

I have now made up the most of the basic chassis. I had to press the side down hard to ensure that the spacer tabs were all the way home and in one case resolder it until I was happy with it. Next I am going to modify the horn blocks to suit the compensating arms , make up the High level gear box and check that for clearance/fits and lastly partially build the brake Gear. Having done this I will then make a start on the Inside Motion. I note in the instructions it states that to solder the Cast manganese bronze cranks to the steel axle you need to use silver solder. Does any one have an idea of the grade of Silver Solder to use and where can I get it from. Thanks in advance.

[Horsetan]

.... in the instructions it states that to solder the Cast manganese bronze cranks to the steel axle you need to use silver solder. Does any one have an idea of the grade of Silver Solder to use and where can I get it from. Thanks in advance.

I try to avoid silver soldering because it needs some serious heat, as in blowtorch levels. I did it for the Collett Goods and it didn't come out as well as I'd hoped.

 

See here

 

Alternatively, as I ended up doing, is to drill the axle holes in the cranks and eccentrics to only just enough to wang the axle through with a bit of Loctite 601/603, i.e. an interference fit.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Horsetan

[shellshock]

After consulting with various suppliers I decided to use normal Carr’s 183 degrees solder the consensus of opinion that it will produce a more than strong enough axle and that using silver solder is way over the top.

When fitting the crank castings and eccentrics I first measured the length of the axle with my micrometer and then press fitted both crank castings and eccentric and centre spacing washers and again measured the length of these on the axle using my Vernier Callipers. I got the following data

Axle length 22.77mm

Motion length on axle 11.20mm

Difference 11.57mm divide by 2 for equal spacing 5.785mm close to 5.8mm.

 

I then press fitted the first crank casting onto the axle and positioned it 5.8mm from the axle end and then soldered it applying the iron to the outer web. (Note the eccentrics and crank webs after reaming out were a light press fit on the axle). Once the assembly had cooled down I checked that the web was in the required position and then I added the first pair of eccentrics and eccentric sheath’s as well as the centre spacing washers with 0.45mm brass wire through the eccentrics and filed notch on crank web so as to align them. Again I carefully soldered the assembly up. I flooded the eccentrics and sheaths with loads of oil so as to ensure that the solder only went where I wanted it to. I then added he second pair of eccentrics and sheaths and the other crank casting again using 0.45mm brass wire to align the eccentrics and crank to each other. Also I ensured that this crank was 90 degrees to the first crank. Again I soldered it up with yet more oil to ensure that nothing jammed up.

 

Once the assembly had cooled down I used my a slitting disc to trim the crank castings and cut through the axle. Lastly using a file I cleaned up the resulting assembly.

 

I have also made up the Cylinders and am about to start on the Crossheads and connecting rods.

[Dave Holt]

Your crank axle looks very good. Personally, I wouldn't have cut out the axle between the cranks till after pressing the wheels on (that's what I did on my re-built West Country crank axle) as I think you will need to fit tight fitting packing now to avoid any risk of distortion during wheel fitting. Hope it goes well.

Dave.

[Craigw]

Your crank axle looks very good. Personally, I wouldn't have cut out the axle between the cranks till after pressing the wheels on (that's what I did on my re-built West Country crank axle) as I think you will need to fit tight fitting packing now to avoid any risk of distortion during wheel fitting. Hope it goes well.

Dave.

 

I would second that. A friend collapsed his crank axle when fitting wheels!

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Horsetan]

Your crank axle looks very good. Personally, I wouldn't have cut out the axle between the cranks till after pressing the wheels on (that's what I did on my re-built West Country crank axle) as I think you will need to fit tight fitting packing now to avoid any risk of distortion during wheel fitting. Hope it goes well.

Dave.

If he's using Ultrascale driving wheels, I'd say they are a bit easier to slip onto what are now effectively stub axles. When I did the one for the Collett Goods, nothing shifted when I test-fitted the wheels so I reckon I got away with it. If I had been using AGWs, I might not have been so lucky.

[Brassey]

If he's using Ultrascale driving wheels, I'd say they are a bit easier to slip onto what are now effectively stub axles. When I did the one for the Collett Goods, nothing shifted when I test-fitted the wheels so I reckon I got away with it. If I had been using AGWs, I might not have been so lucky.

 

In the OP there are 4 axles of A. Gibson wheels

[Horsetan]

In the OP there are 4 axles of A. Gibson wheels

Could be in for an interesting exercise then.

[shellshock]

Interesting the comments about the eventual fitting of the driving wheels thanks for the warnings. One possible idea I have to overcome this would be to fit the wheels to a standard axle first a couple of times so that it is a light push fit and then when going for the final fit using the GW Models fitting tool only initially press the axles half on and quartered correctly and then use Loctite for the final press home on the outer end of the axle and wheel.

Anyway I have made up the cylinders and also the cross heads and connecting rods using other suitable wheels I them trial fitted them to the chassis and all so far seems to be fine.

The next thing to do is the valve rods motion bracket and then the final riveting of the eccentric sheaths expansion links and valve rods.

[shellshock]

I have now assembled the rest of the valve gear and then did a trail fitting of the motion to the chassis. A very fiddly job getting the valve spindles and cross-heads to fit in., but with perseverance I succeeded. I now have free running inside motion. I am now making up suitable keeper plate assembly’s and also working out how to make up suitable pick ups and especially fro the front pick ups how to route the conductor wires back to the rear of the chassis with out fouling the motion ans also that it is not too visible. I have also received from High Level a road runner plus Gear Box and a D1 extender as well as a 1.5mm worm and a 2mm worm. The reason for this is that have a Mashima 14/20 which is my first choice but I may find that it will be too big so I have a plan B ready and waiting using either a 10/24 or 10/20 motor.

Anyway I am now getting on with making up the keeper plates using the springs as well as the pick ups and sussing out a suitable pick up wire routing. As a check I will soon make a start on the body and see how things actually go together.

[Brassey]

I have now assembled the rest of the valve gear and then did a trail fitting of the motion to the chassis. A very fiddly job getting the valve spindles and cross-heads to fit in., but with perseverance I succeeded. I now have free running inside motion. I am now making up suitable keeper plate assembly’s and also working out how to make up suitable pick ups and especially fro the front pick ups how to route the conductor wires back to the rear of the chassis with out fouling the motion ans also that it is not too visible. I have also received from High Level a road runner plus Gear Box and a D1 extender as well as a 1.5mm worm and a 2mm worm. The reason for this is that have a Mashima 14/20 which is my first choice but I may find that it will be too big so I have a plan B ready and waiting using either a 10/24 or 10/20 motor.

Anyway I am now getting on with making up the keeper plates using the springs as well as the pick ups and sussing out a suitable pick up wire routing. As a check I will soon make a start on the body and see how things actually go together.

 

In my experience, there is not a big enough gap in the footplate to allow for a 14mm motor to fit.  There are delicate location etchings for the firebox that make it hard to remove metal in the area.  The largest is a 12mm.  The proposal on the Brassmasters site is a 1220 IIRC. I have manage to get a 1224 to fit in an underslung fashion using the RoadRunner compact.