Start of the Swanage - Wareham trial service 13 June 2017

[The Dorset Wanderer]

Both Devon & Cornwall are a damned sight wetter, Dorset is lucky as they both take most of the rain out of the prevailing winds. But don't tell anyone or it'll be flooded with 'grockles'.

But Paul as I have lived here for 67 years- we say come to sunny Dorset- but we don't tell you when!

Steve

[Robin Brasher]

NIMBYism and stupidity, quite a potent combination.

 

Mike.

I thought that Network Rail originally wanted to close the foot crossing at Wareham and leave the bridge as it was.  The residents objected as mobility impaired people would not be able to use the stairs. Network Rail submitted a plan to install ramps on the footbridge which received planning approval. Then the rail company found they were unable to build the curved ramps on an incline so they submitted another plan which would spoil the appearance of the station that the planning authority rejected. Network Rail is unable to reinstate the siding at the north of the station because it installed some signal equipment on the track bed while the company was resignalling the line to enable the Swanage Railway to run to Wareham. The Swanage Railway is also unable to use the sidings to the east of Wareham station because the foot crossing is still in use and it would involve too many train movements. I don't think there is any NIMBYism as I went to a meeting with about 400 people at Wareham and they were very keen on getting access to the town for people who lived on the north side of the railway.

[phil-b259]

The sidings were upgraded a couple of years ago for the use of Swanage Railway. But the crossing has been a bit of a thorn in the side, in the past many using it have been impatience with the somewhat long wait,it is the only way that people, on foot, from the Northport area can get to Wareham town centre, and many are not the best mobile, but enjoy the exercise of a half mile walk into town. 

 

The point is NR have proposed an entirely suitable solution to this - namely adding gently graded ramps to the footbridge.

 

Level crossings of all descriptions are dangerous, thanks to the inability of the general public to use them correctly and as such NR is entirely correct to want the thing shut.

 

Its not as though (despite what some locals like to claim) that NR is proposing to shut the crossing and remove the ability for those with restricted mobility to get from one side of the line to the other as the ramps would be built and opened before the crossing closure would happen.

 

However for that to happen and thus allow the Swanage to be freed of timetable restrictions posed by the inability to use the sidings (which will remain for as long as the foot crossing stays),  not to mention saving Dorset CC taxpayers being able to stop having to pay for a crossing keeper whenever trains are running, the residents of Wareham have to stop this illogical nonsense of objecting to the addition of ramps to the footbridge.

[chris p bacon]

Swanage last Thursday

 

Taken from "The Grand" ?.....stayed there a few years ago and it was 'Grand' in name only.

 

Usually stay at the Purbeck House Hotel and ask for a room in the house, rooms are ok and service is good.

[PaulRhB]

Taken from "The Grand" ?.....stayed there a few years ago and it was 'Grand' in name only.

 

Usually stay at the Purbeck House Hotel and ask for a room in the house, rooms are ok and service is good.

Mates wedding and it was rather good It's in the process of a slow refresh so getting there though the lift is 70's tv gold Edited June 12, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Tim V]

I haven't been to Wareham in years, but are you referring to this crossing?

[PaulRhB]

Yes they are.

[john new]

The point is NR have proposed an entirely suitable solution to this - namely adding gently graded ramps to the footbridge.

 

Level crossings of all descriptions are dangerous, thanks to the inability of the general public to use them correctly and as such NR is entirely correct to want the thing shut.

 

Its not as though (despite what some locals like to claim) that NR is proposing to shut the crossing and remove the ability for those with restricted mobility to get from one side of the line to the other as the ramps would be built and opened before the crossing closure would happen.

 

However for that to happen and thus allow the Swanage to be freed of timetable restrictions posed by the inability to use the sidings (which will remain for as long as the foot crossing stays),  not to mention saving Dorset CC taxpayers being able to stop having to pay for a crossing keeper whenever trains are running, the residents of Wareham have to stop this illogical nonsense of objecting to the addition of ramps to the footbridge.

I can't recall now from reading coverage of this topic on an other forum what the planning or highway authority argument against was but I do recall it was fully set out and the issue(s) is/are valid viewed from that perspective; it is not NIMBYism or bloody mindedness. The answer therefore is that your statement that "NR have proposed an entirely suitable solution to this" is incorrect as at the present time all key stakeholders needing to sign off on the plan have not been given an acceptable option to agree to. We may think that this is a farcical and trivial situation, perhaps it is as another thread on here suggests that Planning rules are not currently fit for purpose but the development won't happen until the blocking difficulty to the current proposal is overcome in some way.

Edited June 12, 2017 by john new

[bike2steam]

I haven't been to Wareham in years, but are you referring to this crossing?

 

Indeed, with the Carey, Northmoor, and Sandford areas of Wareham off to the left, and Wareham town centre off to the right. The crossing is the only way for residents in those areas to walk into the town centre. The road bridge ( that replaced the level crossing in the foreground) does NOT have a footpath. Thanks Robin for going into a bit more detail  .

Edited June 12, 2017 by bike2steam

[bike2steam]

But Paul as I have lived here for 67 years- we say come to sunny Dorset- but we don't tell you when!

Steve

Hello Steve, you don't look that old, just a year older than me eh ?, and I've been living in Dorset half my life - well there's no way I'm ever going back to Essex

[The Dorset Wanderer]

Hello Steve, you don't look that old, just a year older than me eh ?, and I've been living in Dorset half my life - well there's no way I'm ever going back to Essex

I have managed to mostly avoid Essex and can appreciate your reluctance to return. The county promo The only way is Essex does nothing to encourage me to visit.

Tfic

Steve

[Karhedron]

There will be 4 return trains / day, leaving Swanage at 10:23, 12:23, 14:23 and 16:23.

Does anyone have any idea why those times were chosen? It seems that by not running an early morning service out of Swanage, they are ignoring any potential commuter traffic. Conversely, by not running later in the evening, they seem to be losing out on day-trippers who might want to have tea in Swanage/Corfe and then head back the mainline around 7pm for the journey home.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I haven't been to Wareham in years, but are you referring to this crossing?

Wareham March 1985 OM1 246-002.jpg

 

There looks to be plenty of space there to put in an "off-the-peg" design of footbridge with ramps.

 

Edit to add: Of course, that's an old photo. May be a bit different now. I will take a look later.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Joseph_Pestell

[Gwiwer]

They are not ignoring anything and are well aware of these potential markets.

 

This is the trial service. Not just to test the demand but to assess the costs and the interface with NR.

 

Swanage Railway has stated (somewhere I cannot locate quickly on the phone) that to offer early morning commuter services will involve them in significantly increased costs. Another whole shift has to be staffed for train crew, station and signalling staff and access charges paid to NR. The same may apply for evening returns notwithstanding the existing evening service to Norden.

 

While some staff are volunteers that should not be mistaken for free labour. Not everyone is willing to hop out of bed at 5am to prep a train, drive a shift and go home with no more than thanks.

 

If the trial succeeds - and we all hope it does - then commuter services may follow in 2018 or 2019.

[PaulRhB]

Does anyone have any idea why those times were chosen? It seems that by not running an early morning service out of Swanage, they are ignoring any potential commuter traffic. Conversely, by not running later in the evening, they seem to be losing out on day-trippers who might want to have tea in Swanage/Corfe and then head back the mainline around 7pm for the journey home.

if you know Swanage the tourists all decamp around 4-5 and it's chaos on the roads so the 16:23 time is pretty spot on and will have better connections at Wareham for onward journeys. Remember this is the initial trial to see how it goes and may be changed. I'm afraid commuting isn't on the radar as most who live in Swanage work locally and it's significantly quicker by the ferry and bus to Bournemouth. I very much doubt it would be viable in their fare structure.

[bike2steam]

There looks to be plenty of space there to put in an "off-the-peg" design of footbridge with ramps.

 

Edit to add: Of course, that's an old photo. May be a bit different now. I will take a look later.

That's an old pic, there's no room now, most of the spare space has been built on, especially between the old goods shed, and the crossing.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.6930991,-2.1143399,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz10dPPRkAInV-G1ORQwwbQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Edited June 13, 2017 by bike2steam

[lmsforever]

Just looked on Corfe camera and normal service train with class four tank in down platform with the Wareham Swanage routed into normal up platform presume regular train will follow on at its leisure,Swanage is an excellent place and has a brand new RNLI station go and visit them and the shop please.

[Ceptic]

Subway, anyone ? (And I don't mean a sarnie).

[phil-b259]

Subway, anyone ? (And I don't mean a sarnie).

 

Unnecessary - there is a perfectly serviceable footbridge over the railway, it just needs the addition of ramps as per NRs proposals that the locals keep objecting to for stupid reasons (as per https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi0xpDavrjUAhXNa1AKHc74AmsQFggtMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.warehamtowntrust.org.uk%2FObjection_to_2015_ramps_apps.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGw3ZRV6WdpG1Il_qRDrj1MdtkmQw&sig2=Q6jW6rP1JP0l6s-y7PeQYQ)

 

If the locals think this https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi0xpDavrjUAhXNa1AKHc74AmsQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdorset.moderngov.co.uk%2Fdocuments%2Fs5375%2FAppendix%25204.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE0ospo1oboMx4CuC4wV9bQsRe8rA&sig2=zm2v-dimXwbexm6q59vqqw is what 'ruining' the area' or 'severing the two sides of the town' looks like they really have lost the plot.

 

I can't recall now from reading coverage of this topic on an other forum what the planning or highway authority argument against was but I do recall it was fully set out and the issue(s) is/are valid viewed from that perspective; it is not NIMBYism or bloody mindedness. The answer therefore is that your statement that "NR have proposed an entirely suitable solution to this" is incorrect as at the present time all key stakeholders needing to sign off on the plan have not been given an acceptable option to agree to. We may think that this is a farcical and trivial situation, perhaps it is as another thread on here suggests that Planning rules are not currently fit for purpose but the development won't happen until the blocking difficulty to the current proposal is overcome in some way.

 

Sorry, but the local authority actually supported NRs proposals as they also recognise the level crossing has to go (hence why I said NR have proposed an entirely suitable solution). However local authorities are duty bound to respect the wishes of the residents and their elected representatives, regardless of how misguided they may be  - which is how planning permission has been refused for what should be an entirely non contentious issue. Even after NRs most recent plan got turned down the council are not hostile to the solution - its simply a case of finding a way of selling it to the locals

Edited June 13, 2017 by phil-b259

[Ceptic]

Quote :-

"Unnecessary - there is a perfectly serviceable footbridge over the railway, " :- Snip.

 

There is, also, a perfectly serviceable footbridge, over the tracks at Bournemouth, built at the time when the subway there was sealed over and closed.

It was found, later, that the subway was indispensable and duly re-opened.

 

If local folks don't like the idea of ramps, or a subway, how would Lifts (Elevators), and their accompanying towers, suit them ?, as at Brockenhurst, deep in a National Park.

 

Regards,

Frank.

[Robin Brasher]

Swanage to Wareham service on BBC South Today 18:40 - 19:00.

[Robin Brasher]

 

Quote :-

"Unnecessary - there is a perfectly serviceable footbridge over the railway, " :- Snip.

 

There is, also, a perfectly serviceable footbridge, over the tracks at Bournemouth, built at the time when the subway there was sealed over and closed.

It was found, later, that the subway was indispensable and duly re-opened.

 

If local folks don't like the idea of ramps, or a subway, how would Lifts (Elevators), and their accompanying towers, suit them ?, as at Brockenhurst, deep in a National Park.

Brockenhurst station's lift towers..png

 

Regards,

Frank.

 

I would like to see lifts. There are lifts at many Thameslink stations from St Pancras to Luton. The reason that Network Rail cannot install lifts at Wareham is that the station is not manned 24 hours a day.

[phil-b259]

I would like to see lifts. There are lifts at many Thameslink stations from St Pancras to Luton. The reason that Network Rail cannot install lifts at Wareham is that the station is not manned 24 hours a day.

 

True lifts would do the job - but what happens if they break down? Also I don't see a lift tower being significantly less intrusive as regards the general built environment than a ramp.

 

At Wareham we are told civilisation as we know it will end if those with mobility problems are denied the ability to get from one side of the railway to the other so a physical ramp would be more suitable as it cannot break down like lifts can.

[Robin Brasher]

Subway, anyone ? (And I don't mean a sarnie).

I think that the problem with the subway was that the water table is high at Wareham and there would be a danger of flooding.

[Tim V]

Short-sighted of the highways authority to build the replacement flyover without a foot path. What were they thinking? My picture from 1985 looks like the vehicle level crossing has just been taken out of use. So was it that recent?