Imperfections when repainting

[bart2day]

Hi everyone,

 

I am currently doing a repainting of a 2 car DMU using a paintbrush and Phoenix paints over a base coat of humbrol grey primer.

 

However after finishing a coat there a lots of tiny raised dots all over the surface area which are mostly only visible when holding the model up to the light but are prevelant nonetheless. I am hoping someone may be able to advise me what I am doing wrong? Have I not mixed the paint correctly, something to do with my paintbrush or maybe something else?

 

I have attached a photo which illustrates my point a little although my camera is not the greatest.

 

Thanks, and apologies if this is posted in the wrong section, I am fairly new to RMweb.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by bart2day

[brossard]

If you want a good looking finish on a passenger vehicle, I recommend using an airbrush, or a rattle can if you can find the right colour.  It is very difficult with brush painting to get that professional looking paint job.

 

John

[micklner]

Brush is finding tiny bits of debris, probably there before you primed the model. Lightly rub with very fine wet and dry, that should flatten the paint surface, this will also remove any brush stroke marks. Spraying is better , no reason with care that you cannot brush paint on. 

 

Sealing with a aerosol varnish coat will help to level the paint in due course as well.

[Nile_Griffith]

Long winded process but either very fine wet and dry or maybe some kind of liquid abrasive like T'Cut. Warning! This advice is dependent on the thickness of the coat of paint applied and also method of application. Don't go mad with lots of excessive pressure. Your aiming to lightly polish away those imperfections rather than bear down into the whole surface of the paint.

 

Will agree with previous advice. A good result can be achieved by brush painting, but you really need to have the very best paint, brushes, preparation and technique to get a finished surface close to what can be achieved with a good airbrush. If it's something your planning to get into long term I really would recommend you look at air brushing.

[bart2day]

Thanks for your replies. I appreciate that airbrushing gives the best finish but I am living in a small flat at the moment and have no facilities for airbrushing whatsoever so it was either brush painting or nothing.

 

I will try rubbing down each coat with some wet n dry. Is 1200 grit fine enough?

[Daddyman]

Thanks for your replies. I appreciate that airbrushing gives the best finish but I am living in a small flat at the moment and have no facilities for airbrushing whatsoever so it was either brush painting or nothing.

 

I will try rubbing down each coat with some wet n dry. Is 1200 grit fine enough?

Agree with all the advice given, though it looks like you have done a damn good job with a brush, all things considered. You never know, you might just be one of that rare breed that can brush paint... 

 

I would use 1500 for rubbing down - and worn 1500 at that. 

[bart2day]

Agree with all the advice given, though it looks like you have done a damn good job with a brush, all things considered. You never know, you might just be one of that rare breed that can brush paint... 

 

I would use 1500 for rubbing down - and worn 1500 at that.

 

Thanks for the compliment. It means a lot as this is my first go at repainting and I need all the encouragement I can get.

 

Ok. I will try and obtain some 1500. I am using Tamiya flat brushes sizes 000, 1 and 3. Are these good or could you suggest any better ones?

[Daddyman]

Thanks for the compliment. It means a lot as this is my first go at repainting and I need all the encouragement I can get.

 

Ok. I will try and obtain some 1500. I am using Tamiya flat brushes sizes 000, 1 and 3. Are these good or could you suggest any better ones?

No idea, really, I'm not daft/talented enough to have ever tried brush painting! 

 

All I can recommend is that you paint topless (I'm hoping you're male), to avoid fluff/dust coming off your clothes. 

 

Mr Rathbone's book says use a good quality long bristle sable brush for large areas, smaller pointed ones for detail and second division for wheels and axle boxes. For the general work, you "need to go for one of the more expensive ranges from Winsor and Newton  or Daler Rowney." 

[Nile_Griffith]

Think you might be surprised at how compact a small airbrushing set up can be. Admittedly if you are only have a small area to work in I'd recommend sticking to spraying Acrylics as they have little odour and don't require odorous thinners for air brush cleaning.

 

I have a small home made air brushing booth that sits on the draining board (I'm lucky enough to have a full sized sink and drainer in the utility room) The great thing about being on the drainer is I'm next to the sink and close by a good water source for when it comes to clean up time (another advantage of acrylics, although I'd heartily recommend Vallejo's airbrush cleaner for acrylic paints).

 

Back to paint brushes only really one serious choice and thats good quality sable and in a range of widths suitable for your various projects.............. Oh and oodles of patience.

[47164]

As others say a good sable brush and thin the paint, very finely wet and dry and apply thinned coats again.... and patience.

[bart2day]

Hi guys,

 

Just thought I would update you on my progress. Just finished the first side of one car, all hand painted with just some touching up to do. It's not perfect by any means and looks better from a distance but I am quite happy with it so far.

 

Any further suggestions gratefully received.

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by bart2day

[NickL2008]

Hi guys,

 

Just thought I would update you on my progress. Just finished the first side of one car, all hand painted with just some touching up to do. It's not perfect by any means and looks better from a distance but I am quite happy with it so far.

 

Any further suggestions gratefully received.

 

IMG_0835.JPGIMG_0836.JPGIMG_0832.JPG

 

That looks ok for a first effort, as others have said brush painting can subjectively be good. I have found that, removing said bumps and other particles, whilst the paint is wet ca nhelp, if there are any blemishes they normally smooth themselves out, otherwise it is just a simple case of carefully brushing in a little more paint. Another good tip I find is to very slightly add some thinners to thin the paint down a little bit; not too much otherwise the paint will run, but I find this helps the paint flow better. As others have said ultimately get an airbrush, you may think now that you cant use one, never think that, airbrushes are easier than you think to operate, and as your first airbrush it doesn't have to be too elaborate either. As I have found with my set up a good airbrush makes painting so much easier, and the finishes are a lot smoother, and unlike aerosols, don't over spray the bodyshell and give a nice thin layer, that if you're not happy with, can be easily removed

 

NL

[bart2day]

Hi everyone.

 

Thanks for all your replies. I have now moved onto varnishing and have a couple more issues. Is it normal for matt varnish to slightly whiten the colour of the livery as shown in one of the photos below with the left side unvarnished and the white varnished?

 

Secondly, when handling the model after varnishing the coat appears to have resulted in a number of smudges therefore ruining the finish. I thought the point of varnish was to protect the finish not ruin it?

 

[NickL2008]

Hi everyone.

 

Thanks for all your replies. I have now moved onto varnishing and have a couple more issues. Is it normal for matt varnish to slightly whiten the colour of the livery as shown in one of the photos below with the left side unvarnished and the white varnished?

 

Secondly, when handling the model after varnishing the coat appears to have resulted in a number of smudges therefore ruining the finish. I thought the point of varnish was to protect the finish not ruin it?

 

IMG_20170620_212850862.jpgIMG_20170620_212809385_HDR.jpg

 

Hi- What Varnish have you used? if its Humbrol Matt varnish that does fade the paint as it has a white tint to it, you may have smudged the varnish as you haven't left it enough time to cure, once you've finished painting the model, put it in an airing cupboard or any slightly warm enclosed place so it wont be touched, and the varnish can dry. I usually leave all of my models at least for a day before handling them

 

HTH

NL

[bart2day]

Hi- What Varnish have you used? if its Humbrol Matt varnish that does fade the paint as it has a white tint to it, you may have smudged the varnish as you haven't left it enough time to cure, once you've finished painting the model, put it in an airing cupboard or any slightly warm enclosed place so it wont be touched, and the varnish can dry. I usually leave all of my models at least for a day before handling them

 

HTH

NL

 

Hi. Thanks for your fast reply.

 

That explains it then as yes I am using humbrol acrylic. Is there an alternative matt varnish you could suggest as ideally I would prefer the colour not to fade, or is humbrol the best?

 

And yes you are probably right. Perhaps I didn't leave it long enough to dry. To get rid of the smudges is it just a case of giving it another coat of varnish or do I need to paint over it?

Edited June 20, 2017 by bart2day

[Guy Rixon]

Try a Railmatch spray-can for varnish. It's easy to apply, dries clearer than Humbrol, and is kind to transfers. You have a choice of matt, satin or gloss finish.

 

To spray safely indoors, get yourself a cardboard box to catch the overspray, newspaper under the box to catch the over-overspray (spray-can paint really wants to be free) and a vapour mask so that you don't breath the aerosol left in the air. Spray the model, open the window and go down the pub for an hour while the aerosol clears. (Remember to take off the mask or the bar staff may refuse to serve you.)

 

The one problem with the Railmatch cans (and other rattle cans from the model trade) is that the spray nozzles clog after some time. They can be detached from the cans and cleaned by soaking in white spirit.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

I find the best matt varnish is Testors Dullcoat in a spray can and it dries perfectly matt without as far as I can tell changing the underlying paint colour.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[bart2day]

Try a Railmatch spray-can for varnish. It's easy to apply, dries clearer than Humbrol, and is kind to transfers. You have a choice of matt, satin or gloss finish.

 

To spray safely indoors, get yourself a cardboard box to catch the overspray, newspaper under the box to catch the over-overspray (spray-can paint really wants to be free) and a vapour mask so that you don't breath the aerosol left in the air. Spray the model, open the window and go down the pub for an hour while the aerosol clears. (Remember to take off the mask or the bar staff may refuse to serve you.)

 

The one problem with the Railmatch cans (and other rattle cans from the model trade) is that the spray nozzles clog after some time. They can be detached from the cans and cleaned by soaking in white spirit.

Thanks for the advice. Would that be Railmatch 2407 Acrylic - Matt Varnish?

 

Also found a bottle of testors dullcote which apparently can be brushed on and by many accounts is the best Matt varnish out there: https://www.modeldisplayproducts.co.uk/testors-dullcote/testors-dullcote-lacquer

 

Would that work over Phoenix enamel?

Edited June 21, 2017 by bart2day

[Guy Rixon]

Thanks for the advice. Would that be Railmatch 2407 Acrylic - Matt Varnish?

 

Also found a bottle of testors dullcote which apparently can be brushed on and by many accounts is the best Matt varnish out there: https://www.modeldisplayproducts.co.uk/testors-dullcote/testors-dullcote-lacquer

 

Would that work over Phoenix enamel?

 

 

My Railmatch cans are marked 1407 for the matt and 1408 for the satin finish.

 

Testors I have not used. I don't see why it should not work over enamel provided that the paint is properly cured.

[rob D2]

I have three cans of testers and am less than impressed.

Far from being the holy grail I found it gives a Matt but blotchy finish, TBH I found humbrol better

[bart2day]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

A couple more questions. On the basis of advice given here I bought a tin of Testors dullcote and railmatch satin varnish 409. However while Testors is fine, I prefer the satin finish. The problem is that there seem to be little bubbles or pigments in the satin varnish which move around as I coat it with a brush, (see pictures). A poster here said that varnish should improve the evenness of the surface not make it worse so what am I doing wrong? Am I not stirring properly or could it be the heat? It is 30 degrees in my flat at the moment. Also is it better to apply thin, moderate or thick coats?

 

 

 

 

Secondly is it possible to rub down varnish to recount as I need to do something about the section I have messed up? Would it be advisable to rub down and give it another coat of paint as rubbing down seems to create an uneven surface for varnishing and the primer starts to show through in places.

 

Thanks!

Edited July 13, 2017 by bart2day

[N15class]

Yes you can run down varnish. I would use a spray can varnish if not an airbrush. I know you say you live in s small flat. I nearly always spray my models outside through an open window. Or as I did in our apartment, was to use the balcony.

Varnish needs the paint to be cured not just dried. Acrylic varnish like all others need to be very well stirred.

[rob D2]

Anybody tried Windsor and newton artist varnish Spray can ?

 

i have railmatch, testors, humbrol and this available 

[TheSignalEngineer]

I've used their satin varnish with good results. Beware that some artists varnishes remain water soluble after drying. I've also used a Valspar one which gives a harder surface.

For Matt varnish I have a bottle of a Daler Rowney product that my son happened to leave unattended about 20 years ago when he had been experimenting with acrylics for pictures. When well shaken and stirred it brushes on to a beautiful flat finish and I have never had it go white. 

[Guest JiLo]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Anybody tried Windsor and newton artist varnish Spray can ?

 

i have railmatch, testors, humbrol and this available 

I spray their varnishes through an airbrush, go on great with a nice flat finish