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New Layout Idea- Swansea Victoria Themed. Huge Change of Plan!

LMR 1960s Steam Diesel BR WR Locos layout




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#1 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 14:24

Well,

 

A sleepless night....   research and reading around suitable terminus plans led me to look at Swansea Victoria.  This is quite a small terminus which seems well contained.  It also was LMR and seems to have had Black Five's, Standard 5MT's and lots of tanks running into it (inc ex GWR types).  It also appears to have had a backdrop of a high level ex GWR dock railway. 

 

Now the whole thing could be transported to the Midlands- The ex GWR line would still fit....   That could be an industrial line running behind the layout to Round Hill Steel works perhaps?  or I could set the layout in Wales, but after Beeching was sacked due to the hung parliament of 1962/3.....  the Station survived

 

Now what to do with my Minories layout- The current plan is to build this at around 70cm height and put Minories on adjustable feet (just arrived from Ebay) on the floor.  Some lighting under Swansea Victoria will still allow it to run.  That accounts for the ER stock which would not have ventured that far.  I will condense the stock so it runs mainly DMU's and ex LNER tanks with suburban stock and I may only run 3 coach trains max...

 

Progress will be slow.  Due to my injury its going to be developed over the next six months.   I have attached my current thinking.  I am unsure whether to use a single slip off the scissors to allow arrivals into the Bay Platform or to stick with what is the more prototypical trailing points?  That will leave a single and a double slip to sell (only just got them) and a three way to buy.   I am going to try and replicate the scissors using Peco Large radius points.  Please let me know what you think? 

 

There is 4 metres of scenic space and then 2.4 metres for a fiddle yard.  the fiddle yard will have to be removable due to it being over a bed!  Baseboards will be 9mm ply on 7cm wood frames with the High Level railway providing the back drop :)

 

The signal diagram- http://www.s-r-s.org...l/lmsr/M136.gif

 

The inspiration- https://en.wikipedia...railway_station

 

The plan-

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  • Swansea Hope St Prototype.jpg

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#2 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 15:16

I should add if the scissors is too wide I may be tempted to get the Shinohara one although I have no idea which point motors to use (or how point motors even work). It also seems to have a shallow radius...

Feedback and ideas welcome :)

#3 Andrew P

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 15:43

Hi Dan, I like the Plan Man, hahah, The Centre Road release is something I tried on BritVic, and liked it very much, its also a nice place to Store Locos or a spare Coach at the Buffers, I also like the idea of the scissor crossover, overall I would say it looks very good and workable.



#4 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 15:50

Ta :) Apreciate the feedback :). It's one of my simpler ideas and I've tried to follow the signal diagram.. I never thought this type of scissors would be prototypical but then I found Leicester Belgrave Road. I may cut the peco sl-93 down as it enters the scissors or buy a ready made version on eBay...

I'm excited by the layout and can't wait to get cracking! First step will be lowering minories.

I'm tempted to nick the terminus canopy off minories or develop a new one. The exposed girder things are beyond my ability so it may end up slightly different to the real one :)

Here is a link to a film of it in action!

http://player.bfi.or...1964-june-1964/

Edited by danstercivicman, 11 June 2017 - 16:33 .

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#5 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 18:02

Looking at the plan I may curve the platforms round as per prototype. If anyone has any pictures I'd appreciate them. From the limited pictures I can see that the station is higher than the gas works but below the high level dock railway?

My station will feature milk traffic and it may have a scalescenes roof or the peco one, thoughts comments and local knowledge most welcome!

Please note it will be themed but not a recreation of the prototype!
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#6 Clive Mortimore

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 18:52

Hi Dan

 

The scissors cross over can be made to narrow down by using a curved point. 

 

dan scissors.png


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#7 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:03

Hi Dan

The scissors cross over can be made to narrow down by using a curved point.

dan scissors.png


Good idea :) it's interesting to see how many of the scissors type cross over were used in practice, I think peco is missing out by not doing a code 100 version with the lomg radius.

Looking at pictures it seems I can get away with LMR and ex GWR tanks on this project and I've ordered a book on the central wales line which shows 8F's used the route and the other end was Shrewsbury?
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#8 SVRlad

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:07

Dan, don't worry about the ER stock. They stretched far and wide, some being used on the Berks and Hants route and others on the WCML, and a Gresley buffet survived until the mid 70s at least on XC routes from I think Bristol to Manchester/Newcastle. I got a Hornby Gresley BG from a stand at Kidderminster a few months ago as part of a pigeon special for Kinlet; they were frequently to be found on this task.

Will you still be keeping Birmingham Hope St?
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#9 t-b-g

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:08

That is a cracking looking plan. I have been plotting a double track terminus layout for a while myself and seeing that has set me off re-thinking yet again.

 

The centre release road is very "Chesterfield Market Place" which is why it appeals to me.

 

I was going for a "Minories" with all the pointwork at the station throat and plain track in the platforms but I will be doodling some alternatives now..

 

I wouldn't worry about the scissors crossing being wide. You need to get the release road between the running lines so a bit of extra width there wouldn't be a problem.

 

I am not very good at doing drawings on computers but if you keep the points nearest the exit as two standard LH/RH points and replace the LH point at bottom left with a RH one, that gives you the necessary separation and may look a bit more elegant. 



#10 SVRlad

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:11

Good idea :) it's interesting to see how many of the scissors type cross over were used in practice, I think peco is missing out by not doing a code 100 version with the lomg radius.
Looking at pictures it seems I can get away with LMR and ex GWR tanks on this project and I've ordered a book on the central wales line which shows 8F's used the route and the other end was Shrewsbury?


Officially, but the branch line itself ends at Craven Arms and I think those stations between there and the Welsh border (and those between Hereford and Shrewsbury) must be the only ones perhaps in northern Europe to be served by a 'non native' TOC (Arriva Trains Wales)

Please don't favour the LMR over ex-GWR though!

#11 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:30

Dan, don't worry about the ER stock. They stretched far and wide, some being used on the Berks and Hants route and others on the WCML, and a Gresley buffet survived until the mid 70s at least on XC routes from I think Bristol to Manchester/Newcastle. I got a Hornby Gresley BG from a stand at Kidderminster a few months ago as part of a pigeon special for Kinlet; they were frequently to be found on this task.

Will you still be keeping Birmingham Hope St?

 

 

Hello,  cheers for the information!   That is good to know.  The main sore point here is that I ebayed all my WR stock....

 

Birmingham Hope St will be kept underneath the new layout.   Like a double decker bus!   I will have to rig up some lighting but my plan is to drop Hope St to the floor and use adjustable feet to level it up...  I will then construct Swansea Hopetoria??? on top.  Or when baby number 2 arrives later this year that may have to be called Victoria :)


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#12 JohnR

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:39

Good idea :) it's interesting to see how many of the scissors type cross over were used in practice, I think peco is missing out by not doing a code 100 version with the lomg radius.

Looking at pictures it seems I can get away with LMR and ex GWR tanks on this project and I've ordered a book on the central wales line which shows 8F's used the route and the other end was Shrewsbury?

Theres a guy on ebay who sells modified Peco points - one of his creations is a OO scissors crossing. 


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#13 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:40

This is probably a tad nicer- it has curved platforms (my nemesis)...

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  • Swansea Hope St Prototype 2.jpg

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#14 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:41

Theres a guy on ebay who sells modified Peco points - one of his creations is a OO scissors crossing. 

 

 

Yep, I'm busy watching them and waiting for pay day....  somehow I accidentally bid on a Class 25...


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#15 Phil Bullock

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 19:44

Think Jubilees....Standard Class 5s....Black 5s too in addition to 8Fs and tankies...

 

Phil


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#16 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 20:31

Officially, but the branch line itself ends at Craven Arms and I think those stations between there and the Welsh border (and those between Hereford and Shrewsbury) must be the only ones perhaps in northern Europe to be served by a 'non native' TOC (Arriva Trains Wales)

Please don't favour the LMR over ex-GWR though!

 

Well I do like my LMR/GC being run into the ground days but....  you cor argue with the beauty of the GWR locos...  except for the Hornby Paviland Grange that I had which looked amazing but couldn't pull more than three coaches! 

 

Excuse my poor geography but would it fictionally have allowed expresses to Wolverhampton, Worcester or Birmingham?  



#17 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 20:32

Think Jubilees....Standard Class 5s....Black 5s too in addition to 8Fs and tankies...

 

Phil

 

 

I like the sound of that :)

 

Your layout is awesome btw!


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#18 SVRlad

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 21:21

Well I do like my LMR/GC being run into the ground days but....  you cor argue with the beauty of the GWR locos...  except for the Hornby Paviland Grange that I had which looked amazing but couldn't pull more than three coaches! 
 
Excuse my poor geography but would it fictionally have allowed expresses to Wolverhampton, Worcester or Birmingham?


The Cambrian Coast Express went from Pwlhelli (sorry if the spellings wrong) and Aberystwyth to Paddington via Shrewsbury, Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Banbury. But expresses on the Welsh Marches would have been Manchester/Birkenhead/Liverpool to Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol and also Penzance.

There was a line from Wolverhampton to Worcester avoiding Birmingham with the nickname 'Old Worse and Worse' (right bunch of critics whoever came up with nicknames for railway companies) that went via Stourbridge and Kidderminster.

A 'Grange' on no more than 3 coaches? You're quite sure it wasn't a Mogul?

#19 Phil Bullock

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 21:43

If you read the history of the OWW unfortunately the moniker is completely justified!

 

Grange on 3 coaches? Take a look at Gloucester - Hereford workings, often a mogul but 51xx and 68xx certainly not uncommon.

 

Have always had a soft spot for Central Wales line - if you haven't travelled it, do so!

 

Phil

 

PS Thanks for kind words re Abbotswood

 

 


Edited by Phil Bullock, 11 June 2017 - 21:44 .


#20 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 21:53

The Cambrian Coast Express went from Pwlhelli (sorry if the spellings wrong) and Aberystwyth to Paddington via Shrewsbury, Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Banbury. But expresses on the Welsh Marches would have been Manchester/Birkenhead/Liverpool to Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol and also Penzance.

There was a line from Wolverhampton to Worcester avoiding Birmingham with the nickname 'Old Worse and Worse' (right bunch of critics whoever came up with nicknames for railway companies) that went via Stourbridge and Kidderminster.

A 'Grange' on no more than 3 coaches? You're quite sure it wasn't a Mogul?


Cheers for the info :) I lived until recently near Blowers Green which I think was OWR? Lots of railway heritage with Darby End nearby, firmly ex GWR territory!

Yes it was a recent Hornby weathered edition 4-6-0 with beautiful detailing, sadly it was far too light. I added weight inside the smoke box but the glue melted the smoke box.. complete nightmare. Coupled with my Hornby Rebuilt Patriot which de-geared I had a bad run with their locos.

Thankfully I now understand about B2B's and that well paid track is a fundamental to good running. I also didn't realise just how tight peco points actually are and realise in hind sight I was asking my locos to do too much. I can see why people invest in hand built track especially when you look at the geometry of track plans...

I intend to get the baseboards level, use copydex not track pins and have cassettes that work. I may end up reading robbing bits off Hope St which I may convert to BR 1967...

Still a long way to go and a lot of savings to do... I will be running the expresses you mentioned. Did Britannia's ever run on the route? I'm finding reference material scarce
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#21 Phil Bullock

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 22:10

Have you seen this FLikr thread? A few very relevant photos - tells us you can add ex LNWR Super D and Coal tanks to your list....

 

https://www.flickr.c...820751216/page2

 

Phil


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#22 Banger Blue

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 22:11

………Excuse my poor geography but would it fictionally have allowed expresses to Wolverhampton, Worcester or Birmingham?


I don't see why not, a bit of a torturous route, but do-able. Looking at an old map (OS 1:25,000 1937-61) Central Wales Line to Craven Arms then the Much Wenlock line to Buildwas Junction then a choice:

Via Ironbridge > Shifnal > Codsall > Wolverhampton, or

Via the Severn Valley through Bridgnorth > Kidderminster > Stourbridge > Wolverhampton.

As they always say, it's your Railway :D

#23 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 22:18

Have you seen this FLikr thread? A few very relevant photos - tells us you can add ex LNWR Super D and Coal tanks to your list....

Awesome, thank you :)

https://www.flickr.c...820751216/page2

Phil



#24 danstercivicman

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 22:22

I don't see why not, a bit of a torturous route, but do-able. Looking at an old map (OS 1:25,000 1937-61) Central Wales Line to Craven Arms then the Much Wenlock line to Buildwas Junction then a choice:

Via Ironbridge > Shifnal > Codsall > Wolverhampton, or

Via the Severn Valley through Bridgnorth > Kidderminster > Stourbridge > Wolverhampton.

As they always say, it's your Railway :D


Well I'm imagining Beeching met some form of issue which prevented the closures so... I think both routes sound good :)

I think with a smile but engaging track plan hopefully this layout will turn out ok! The high level dock railway should add some interest I might use the double slip and single slip on it. I guess that would be mineral and van traffic?

#25 Phil Bullock

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 22:26

This is probably a tad nicer- it has curved platforms (my nemesis)...

 

Build platforms before laying track - easier to align track to platform than vice versa

 

Phil










Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: LMR, 1960s, Steam, Diesel, BR, WR, Locos, layout

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