New Layout Idea- Swansea Victoria Themed. Huge Change of Plan!

[Fat Controller]

I don't see why not, a bit of a torturous route, but do-able. Looking at an old map (OS 1:25,000 1937-61) Central Wales Line to Craven Arms then the Much Wenlock line to Buildwas Junction then a choice:

 

Via Ironbridge > Shifnal > Codsall > Wolverhampton, or

 

Via the Severn Valley through Bridgnorth > Kidderminster > Stourbridge > Wolverhampton.

 

As they always say, it's your Railway

The L&NWR, and subsequently the LMS, offered tickets to London (Euston) from Swansea; presumably, they didn't go out of their way to tell passengers how long it took. Not to be outdone, the Midland offered similar serves from its St Thomas's station, via Hereford.

The majority of through trains on the Central Wales ran no further than Salop, as the GWR was wont to call Shrewsbury. A notable exception was the Swansea- York mail train- long after Victoria had closed, and services diverted to start from High Street via Llanelli, the last train of the day was referred to by one and all as the 'North Mail'

With regard to motive power; locals in later days were worked by a combination of ex-LMS 2-6-4ts and GWR Panniers. Longer distance trains were hauled by Black 5s and Jubilees (no Britannias, alas), whilst freights were usually Black 5s and Black 8s.

Sadly, I never travelled on the line in steam days, though I do remember seeing trains alongside the Mumbles Road, and at other locations such as Llandeilo and Llangadog. I have a memory of standing at the roadside at Sugar Loaf, and watch an 8F-hauled freight climb from Cynghordy to Sugar Loaf Tunnel.

If you can get hold of a copy of 'The Red Dragon, and other Old Friends' it has a lot of views of Victoria and its approaches during its latter days.

[danstercivicman]

Cheers for the info:

 

I will keep my eye out for that book, I've ordered a few cheaper books from Amazon but the Red Dragon is £42 used! Gutted I sold my Jubilee Achilles (she ran well)...

 

I think there was a gas works to the side of Swansea Victoria? Does anyone know what the huge red brick building is/was?

 

My plan for is therefore:

 

Milk train (brake van + 3 tankers)?

 

Van freight. Crab or Ivatt 4MT? Might also be 8F or Black Five

 

Pick up good (tank or Pannier)

 

Express to Shrewsbury. BR mk 1, BSK, CK, SK, TSO, TSO, BSK Black Five or Standard Five or Jubilee

 

Semi fast BR MK.1, BSK, CK, SK, BSK (loco as above except Jubilee). Might even be STD 4MT 2-6-4t

 

Minerals to gas works- 8F, Crab or 56xx?

 

Parcels working (mix un match stock) Class 25?

 

Suburban stock working, CL, BS, S, Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 or Stanier tank

 

Did class 25's venture this far or did the station close before?

 

The Britannia can run an exotic special...

 

That leaves space for DMU's and the Pannier and Auto coach combo. Also maybe some WR B-sets and Hornby's £4000000 a coach Colletts...

 

Any glaring issues?

 

Why oh why did I eBay so much good stock! There is of course room for the Hall Class!

 

This thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79414-pghs-photographs-of-british-railways-from-c1960/page-6

 

confirms I have most of the locos- anyone know what the coaches are? I don't think they are Stanier P3... I think they may be Colletts?

Edited June 12, 2017 by danstercivicman

[danstercivicman]

Just a further question- would the Bachmann 64xx with the ridiculously expensive Hawksworth Auto coach fit the part?

[Fat Controller]

Just a further question- would the Bachmann 64xx with the ridiculously expensive Hawksworth Auto coach fit the part?

I'll look. There were some auto-fitted Jinties, originally used for services to Brynamman from St Thomas's, which were used for locals to Pontardulais.74xx Panniers were used on local passengers, along with 56xx and 57xx, but the trains were hauled stock, often a single Brake 2nd.

A quick look at 'The Red Dragon..' didn't produce any 64xx, but did show BR 4mt 2-6-4t and BR Standard 5s, whilst ex L&NWR 0-8-0s and 0-6-2ts survived into the late 1950s.

[danstercivicman]

Cheers I've managed to find steam in South Wales vol.2 for a good price

[Liam]

It wouldn't be South Wales without 56xxs. If you do get one please can you let me know where you got it, as I'm after one for Kinlet.

[danstercivicman]

It wouldn't be South Wales without 56xxs. If you do get one please can you let me know where you got it, as I'm after one for Kinlet.

 

 

There are a few on Ebay atm.   I used to have one... great running loco along with the 45xx (used to have one) and a Panier 57xx...  I found all of the Bachmann ex GWR tanks superb.  My Pannier could haul the same load as the Hornby rebuilt Patriot!

[toffee]

As a child I lived in Ammanford so saw and traveled on the line in the 60s. Saw mainly standard tanks and DMUs with panniers working the mines around us. Don't go 25, didn't happen. 24s from Salop only worked to the coast not Swansea. Diesels were all type 3s usually 68s but then their were the few months when 3 D600s went to Llandore to work central Wales coal and local freights ! There are pictures !!

Remember it was very much a single line secondary route, change it too much and you loose the flavour.

Pictures in a locospotters annual around 64/5/6 ?

 

Good luck

 

John

[danstercivicman]

Ta, it won't be prototype modelling but themed.   There's no way I can recreate that roof!!! 

 

Here are the loco's I have which will operate on this railway-

 

BR Std 5MT 73014 (might need re-numbering...)

 

5MT Black Five 44781 (I wanted to renumber to 44782)

 

8F 48739

 

Crab 42789

 

Stanier 2-6-4t 42437

 

Std 4MT 2-6-4t 80002

 

Ivatt 2MT- 46521

 

The next shot is the locos which will mainly look after Birmingham Hope St- (although the 5MT's, Ivatt's and Stanier/4MT tanks will appear on both)

 

Ivatt 4MT 2-6-0 43019

 

Gresley V3 67682.

 

 

The Class 25 will work Birmingham Hope St only.  The Britannia 70046 Anzac is a birthday pressie (not until Oct 2017) and will work Birmingham Hope St.

 

That leaves:

 

Jubilee Class 5XP (will work on both)

 

56XX

 

57xx or similar.

 

Some Collett Coaches (why does Hornby charge soooooooooooo much)???

 

Part of a B-set?

 

And some minerals and vans.

 

I guess the milk train is better staying on Hope St and I should heed your suggestion and run a variety of stock on Swansea Hopetoria!

 

I'm staying code 100 as I have some flex track left and if I do end up taking the Beeching Axe to Hope St I can re-use the medium points in the goods yard!! 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

I'll look. There were some auto-fitted Jinties, originally used for services to Brynamman from St Thomas's, which were used for locals to Pontardulais.74xx Panniers were used on local passengers, along with 56xx and 57xx, but the trains were hauled stock, often a single Brake 2nd.

A quick look at 'The Red Dragon..' didn't produce any 64xx, but did show BR 4mt 2-6-4t and BR Standard 5s, whilst ex L&NWR 0-8-0s and 0-6-2ts survived into the late 1950s.

Paxton Street's Webb Coal tanks survived until c.1953 but were stored for a couple of years before that. Plate 34 of the Dragon taken by Huw Daniel on 23 Dec.1948 shows a Landore fitted Pannier on the 10:20 Swansea-Carmarthen auto train and evidences the workings of auto trains on the Swansea area.It does not specify which Pannier is in the photo btw

[danstercivicman]

Would one of these be useful?

 

A Collett Brake Third.   Anyone know what the right hand signifies?

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/StockDetail.aspx?SID=250858

[Phil Bullock]

Have you seen this page?

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=swansea+victoria+station&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philt.org.uk%2FMisc%2FBrian%2Fi-FQr8h7K%2F0%2FL%2F45660-L.jpg

 

AFAIK the Jubilees were largely late arrivals in 1964....allocated to Shrewsbury to see out their days for want of any more taxing workings, worked Stafford and Cnetral Wales, the latter with only 3/4 coaches I think .... and replaced in fairly short order by Class 120 DMUs

 

The RH label for the Collett coach relates to which side of the coach the corridor is, GW coaches were handed allegedly so that if they were marshalled correctly the hoi polloi were all seated facing seawards at Dawlish for the best views.....

 

Phil

[Liam]

Have you seen this page?

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=swansea+victoria+station&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.philt.org.uk%2FMisc%2FBrian%2Fi-FQr8h7K%2F0%2FL%2F45660-L.jpg

 

AFAIK the Jubilees were largely late arrivals in 1964....allocated to Shrewsbury to see out their days for want of any more taxing workings, worked Stafford and Cnetral Wales, the latter with only 3/4 coaches I think .... and replaced in fairly short order by Class 120 DMUs

 

The RH label for the Collett coach relates to which side of the coach the corridor is, GW coaches were handed allegedly so that if they were marshalled correctly the hoi polloi were all seated facing seawards at Dawlish for the best views.....

 

Phil

And Virgin West Coast put the First Class at the southern end of all their Pendolinos so the passengers (bankers, brokers, finance advisors etc.) have the shortest walk to and from the train and taxis/tube. . .*

 

Sorry Dan, our minds were wondering, back to Swansea.

 

 

 

*But I travelled first class Birmingham to Euston a few weeks ago and in addition to the free refreshments bearing in mind I didn't have a lot of time to get to Waterloo this came in handy!

[Phil Bullock]

So heres a project....

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2210749

 

Phil

[Joseph_Pestell]

Ta, it won't be prototype modelling but themed.   There's no way I can recreate that roof!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

Just been having a look at pics via Google. Roof does not look too complicated really and has the benefit of no glass (post-war) so that you get a proper look at the trains.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Joseph_Pestell

[Joseph_Pestell]

So heres a project....

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2210749

 

Phil

But would they have run into the station?

[Joseph_Pestell]

I should add if the scissors is too wide I may be tempted to get the Shinohara one although I have no idea which point motors to use (or how point motors even work). It also seems to have a shallow radius...

 

Feedback and ideas welcome

 

Shinohara do two scissors crossovers; a #4 and a #6. IIRC the #4 has a 2'8" radius. You can find details on www.scalelink.co.uk.

 

Any latching solenoid point motor will do or the Peco with the PM11 mounting base added. Any servo style motor will do the job.

[danstercivicman]

Thank you everyone for the kind replies

 

I'll try and add to them

 

1) the info on the Jubiliees is great, I regret selling Achillles so one is definitely on my list

 

2) thanks for the info on the coaches I had no idea what the right hand meant but that makes sense

 

Last time I travelled on a Pendelino Tin can it felt like being squashed I decided the Chiltern line from Moor St was much more comfortable with the old BR stock hauled by what was then a 67 much more fun

 

3) I like the kit ideas. I can built model planes, tanks etc to a relatively good standard, what I've never done is huiltbany locos or soldered things, I'm not very mechanical...maybe I should start!

 

The overall roof just fills me with dread. I'd be happy building it if I knew where and how to start. I've thought about the scale scenes overall roof but it doesn't look right. I think that really it seems to be pole and metal beam things, I could built it partially covered which might make things easier. Given my Shelf is full of models I think I should try to get the shape. Why doesn't someone make triangle shaped canopy components? It seems that the triangle shape was quite common, there must be more to this hobby than the few canopies we have of which I do like the scalescenes stuff!

 

I guess this is what I need:

 

http://www.squirestools.com/files/12-19a.pdf

 

Thanks for the links- there seems to be more pics on that search engine than google found!

 

Thanks for all the replies. Next month I will hopefully be buying the wood (or collett coaches)

Edited June 12, 2017 by danstercivicman

[danstercivicman]

Shinohara do two scissors crossovers; a #4 and a #6. IIRC the #4 has a 2'8" radius. You can find details on www.scalelink.co.uk.

 

Any latching solenoid point motor will do or the Peco with the PM11 mounting base added. Any servo style motor will do the job.

Thank you, the radius seems good esp the #6. With point motors what/how do you power them? I've never used them before do they run from the accessory output on the guage master controller?

[Zomboid]

And Virgin West Coast put the First Class at the southern end of all their Pendolinos so the passengers (bankers, brokers, finance advisors etc.) have the shortest walk to and from the train and taxis/tube. . .*

 

Sorry Dan, our minds were wondering, back to Swansea.

 

 

 

*But I travelled first class Birmingham to Euston a few weeks ago and in addition to the free refreshments bearing in mind I didn't have a lot of time to get to Waterloo this came in handy!

Normally most trains serving London are that way round. The intercity trains on the GEML, ECML, MML, WCML, GWML & SWML are all normally with first at the London end.

Of course, that means that at Glasgow, Norwich, Swansea and Weymouth etc, first is remote from the concourse.

[danstercivicman]

Normally most trains serving London are that way round. The intercity trains on the GEML, ECML, MML, WCML, GWML & SWML are all normally with first at the London end.

Of course, that means that at Glasgow, Norwich, Swansea and Weymouth etc, first is remote from the concourse.

In steam days did they swap the first coaches around for a down departure so or was it always first class towards London? I guess it would make sense as then the first class would have less far to walk at the London end!

 

Back to the layout... I have decided I'm going to do my best to recreate the canopy in plasticard!!!' Wish me luck!

 

I think the best thing I need to do is build the layout first and then the canopy although I may get some plssticsrd and knock up an example. It looks like there are around fifty to make...

 

I'd probably be better starting with the baseboards...

 

I've been reading up on point motors http://www.gaugemaster.com/points_and_panels.html

 

Gosh this hobby is complicated!!!

[danstercivicman]

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102183114

 

This map view shows the large curved building to the left of the station was a goods shed.

 

It also shows a goods yard further down the track and it shows just how extensive the docks branch was!

 

Wow, what a project!

 

As always with 4m to use there's no way I can do justice to the goods yard and station

[Richard_A]

Going to keep my eyes on this thread. I've moved back to Swansea for the second time and I've always been fascinated by the LNWR and MR presence here.

[br2975]

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102183114

 

This map view shows the large curved building to the left of the station was a goods shed.

 

It also shows a goods yard further down the track and it shows just how extensive the docks branch was!

 

Wow, what a project!

 

As always with 4m to use there's no way I can do justice to the goods yard and station

 

There is a published  image in Colin Gifford's "Each a glimpse" taken in 1964, showing a Sunday School Excursion double-headed by  84xx and 56xx tanks climbing out of Swansea Victoria.

.

The front of this long curved shed is visible and appears to be a carriage shed as opposed to a goods shed.

.

As shown here:-

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lnw/S2007.htm

 

For completeness:-

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lnw/S2008.htm

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lnw/S2007.htm

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lnw/S2006.htm

 

Whilst typing this, I  realise I have the relevant R.A. Cooke 'track plan' booklet so will check further, later.

.

Brian R

Edited June 13, 2017 by br2975

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102183114

 

This map view shows the large curved building to the left of the station was a goods shed.

 

The larger scale map from Old Maps UK shows the curved building is a carriage shed, with the goods shed adjacent.