Mantes engine shed 0 gauge layout

[kirtleypete]

John Smith and I are building a new layout which has to be finished in time to be exhibited at Huntingdon in February 2018.

 

In April we took Mers les Bains to the Trainsmania exhibition in Lille and I came home with a large box containing an 0 gauge 141P locomotive. Well, as always happens one locomotive leads to another and before you know it you're building a new layout to run them on! By the time we'd got back to the UK we'd pretty much agreed about what we wanted, it was just the details that remained to be worked out.

 

Trainsmania had been hard work - it was three days and long opening hours; our aching legs made us wonder if there was an easier way of doing things. All our existing layouts have to be operated standing up; once the show opens we don't sit down until we're in the pub or in the van going home. A loco shed, though, could possibly be operated sitting on a stool as there would be far less shunting which involves uncoupling by hand. That's the idea that started us thinking.

 

We wanted a layout on which we could run large SNCF steam engines, but a large layout with full length trains was out of the question. A loco shed would allow plenty of movement, allow us to run the largest most impressive engines, but would not need much in the way or rolling stock. We wanted to limit the length to 20' so it would fit in a normal Transit van and not take up too much storage space at home. Then John suggested using cassettes in the fiddle yard, which we have never done before.  A 4' long fiddle yard would allow two cassettes, one for the loco and one for two wagons. If we have wagons in pairs, one pair loaded with coal, one with ash and one pair empty we can run in a loaded pair and they can be replaced by the empty pair which look the same apart from having no load. A couple of tank wagons for the oil burning loco's, a couple of stores vans and that's all we need. Cassettes will allow us to turn locos round in the fiddle yard without lifting them up. When the wagons are being propelled from the fiddle yard onto the layout, of course, they don't need to be coupled which saves more effort. We'll be using scale couplings, by the way, anything else would look awful.

 

This was all sounding promising. We came up with this plan:

 

The shed is only modelled to the length of one engine, the rest is off-scene. The grey rectangle is the coaling area, and the round building is the water tower. The turntable will be from Real Model in Germany, which I have used before....fully digital it comes with a DCC sound decoder and at 23m is long enough for most engines. Being digital it can be operated just like a loco from the hand held controller, so there's no need to stand up to do it.  Where the line runs off scene into the fiddle yard there will be a road bridge with buildings, mainly because I enjoy making them.

 

We are going to use laser cut ply baseboards from Grainge and Hodder, as they are nice and light, though the centre one will have to a special commission....layouts that are not straight look far more interesting. The rectangular boards are 4' x 3' or 1200 x 900mm.

 

Having settled on a plan we had to agree on a location. Although the shed is imaginary we like to base our layouts in a real location. My 141P has an Argentan number plate so somewhere on the Ouest system would be ideal. John came up with the idea of Mantes.

 

Mantes la Jolie is a large town on the Seine west of Paris, where the Ouest main lines to Cherbourg and Le Harve separate. The railway here was extensive:

 

 

There had been a small loco depot, but in this picture it is out of use on the left....

 

 

We thought we could probably get away with re-writing history and basing our shed here. There will be nothing of the real Mantes on the layout, of course, but on the backscene it should be possible to include a picture like this so that anyone familiar with the real place will recognise it:

 

 

The rest of the backscene will be industrial buildings and the like.

 

As there is nothing like having a deadline to focus the mind we agreed to take the layout to Huntingdon in February 2018 as it's first show; then we'll know if it really is possible to operate sitting down for most of the time.

 

Naturally as work progresses I'll be posting here so you can see the layout develop. As a taster, here are some of the engines:

 

 

 

 

Peter

Edited June 13, 2017 by kirtleypete

[JAMO]

Waow! Good idea Peter!

 

I stay tuned here!

[kirtleypete]

Although the layout itself can't be started yet I have begun building the road bridge and shops which will form the scenic break between the layout and fiddle yard. All the buildings are based on pictures of real structures from Mantes. 

 

 

The road is wide enough for a bus to be stopped and cars to get past in each direction....I want it to look like a large town. The buildings along the left hand side are only 10mm deep. 

 

 

Losing the road into the backscene is always a problem, but I found a picture of a lovely old gateway at Mantes which I have adapted for the end of the bridge. With a van standing in front to distract the eye it should look fine. I've even found a picture of a 1950's traffic light to prevent accidents.

 

 

The buildings along the back are in place with sky filling the gaps; the bridge has been kept small because our loco's have smoke and I want it to billow out as they come under the bridge from the fiddle yard. The gateway will have a roof but it will be removable to keep the height to the same level all round. The same will apply to the buildings along the right side of the bridge where the white rectangles are. 

 

 

Purely by accident the clouds over the bridge parapet look like steam! The scene will look more animated once some figures are added. 

 

 

All the doors and windows are photo's of real shops printed off onto matt paper and stuck in place. The brick and stone are paper, so is the pavement and so are the granite setts! There is hardly any paint in this picture other than the blue of the shop front.

 

. 

 

Peter

[kirtleypete]

The street is gradually developing; some more pictures below:

 

 

The huge Dubonnet ad is taken from a photo, though not from Mantes. It adds a splash of colour to what would otherwise be a very plain wall.

 

 

Come up and see me sometime! The figures are all from Omen. 

 

 

We don't want the layout to look like a rural backwater, which means big buildings. Once a roof has been added it should be quite imposing. 

 

 

 

The last row of shops is just a plastic shell at the moment, but it does show the construction. 

 

 

 

With both buildings in place the street will just be glimpsed looking along the railway, as it so often was in big towns. The smoke from the engines should waft around here quite nicely.

 

Peter. 

[kirtleypete]

I'd been pondering on what to do about the fact that the traffic doesn't move. The bus will be picking up passengers, a couple of cars will be parked, but some need to be on the road itself. Then the penny dropped - add a zebra crossing with someone about to cross and there's the perfect reason that nothing is moving. 

 

It's a job for tomorrow.

 

Peter

[Andy Hayter]

Sounds good Pete except that until this year zebra crossings were advisory and did not require vehicles to stop and allow pedestrians to cross.  Even now it is very hit and miss as to whether a car will stop just beause you are walking on a crossing.  

 

More authentic might be customs doing a series of random stops.

[Michael Edge]

French drivers started stopping for zebra crossings a few years ago, in most places they are much better than UK drivers now but previously we assumed that the black and white stripes on the roads indicated killing zones.

[BG John]

French drivers started stopping for zebra crossings a few years ago, in most places they are much better than UK drivers now but previously we assumed that the black and white stripes on the roads indicated killing zones.

A run over pedestrian would ensure no movement for the entire operating session .

[rue_d_etropal]

I think that if a driver knocks down a pedestrian, or a cyclist, they have to prove it is not their own  fault. The onus is on them. I have found that French drivers, despite tending to not respect the traffic around them(especiall at start and end of lunch period), will give plenty of room for cyclists, and they are more likely to stop at the pedestrian crossings these days. Still recommend taking care though.

 

As a matter of interest, have you got a photo of the street you based it on, as I would be interested in seeing one with stone setts laid along the road. I checked with someone and it was thought that laying them acoss street helped water flow towards drains at the side.Sometimes they get laid other ways for ornamental reasons.

Edited August 15, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[kirtleypete]

I haven't got room for a customs check, and if someone is actually walking across the crossing the traffic will stop, at least in my version of France! 

 

I laid the setts that way so there would be two joins between the sheets rather than four, as simple as that!  If I put the crossing in it will cover one of the joins very nicely.

 

I do recall driving through France a few years ago and getting a look of astonishment from a lady because I'd stopped at a crossing to allow her to walk across. Then she noticed the English plates and that explained everything!

 

 

Added after a bit of thinking...........

 

It's obvious; the car that has stopped at the zebra crossing has UK number plates, and there is a sound module of furious honking and French swearing under the baseboard!

 

Peter

Edited August 16, 2017 by kirtleypete

[kirtleypete]

Things have moved on again, with just the roofs left to finish before final detailing such as drain pipes, flower boxes etc. 

 

 

The roofs will lift off and be transported separately. 

 

 

 

 

The street lights, bus stop and traffic light were all put together from odds and ends, mainly of plastic. 

 

 

Our loco's will certainly ignore the sign on the wall; if you've got smoke units in the engines you want to play with them! 

 

 

This is the picture I used for the Dubonnet advert:

 

 

 

 

The traffic light isn't lit but it would be easy enough to do it later on. It's based on a photo I found, probably dating back to the 30's. The glass carrying van has to be at the back as it's from a firm in Lyon! 

 

Peter

Edited August 17, 2017 by kirtleypete

[Joseph_Pestell]

I haven't got room for a customs check, and if someone is actually walking across the crossing the traffic will stop, at least in my version of France! 

 

I laid the setts that way so there would be two joins between the sheets rather than four, as simple as that!  If I put the crossing in it will cover one of the joins very nicely.

 

I do recall driving through France a few years ago and getting a look of astonishment from a lady because I'd stopped at a crossing to allow her to walk across. Then she noticed the English plates and that explained everything!

 

 

Added after a bit of thinking...........

 

It's obvious; the car that has stopped at the zebra crossing has UK number plates, and there is a sound module of furious honking and French swearing under the baseboard!

 

Peter

Back then, a GB-plated car on French roads was very rare. Not many ro-ro ferries with most cars having to be craned onto ship or go via Lydd-Le Touquet, 4 cars per aircraft.

 

Even in the early 70s, just the sight of a GB registered RHD car on a rural road could bring a village to a standstill with so many gawpers.

[Pacific231G]

John Smith and I are building a new layout which has to be finished in time to be exhibited at Huntingdon in February 2018.

 

In April we took Mers les Bains to the Trainsmania exhibition in Lille and I came home with a large box containing an 0 gauge 141P locomotive. Well, as always happens one locomotive leads to another and before you know it you're building a new layout to run them on! By the time we'd got back to the UK we'd pretty much agreed about what we wanted, it was just the details that remained to be worked out.

 

Trainsmania had been hard work - it was three days and long opening hours; our aching legs made us wonder if there was an easier way of doing things. All our existing layouts have to be operated standing up; once the show opens we don't sit down until we're in the pub or in the van going home. A loco shed, though, could possibly be operated sitting on a stool as there would be far less shunting which involves uncoupling by hand. That's the idea that started us thinking.

 

We wanted a layout on which we could run large SNCF steam engines, but a large layout with full length trains was out of the question. A loco shed would allow plenty of movement, allow us to run the largest most impressive engines, but would not need much in the way or rolling stock. We wanted to limit the length to 20' so it would fit in a normal Transit van and not take up too much storage space at home. Then John suggested using cassettes in the fiddle yard, which we have never done before.  A 4' long fiddle yard would allow two cassettes, one for the loco and one for two wagons. If we have wagons in pairs, one pair loaded with coal, one with ash and one pair empty we can run in a loaded pair and they can be replaced by the empty pair which look the same apart from having no load. A couple of tank wagons for the oil burning loco's, a couple of stores vans and that's all we need. Cassettes will allow us to turn locos round in the fiddle yard without lifting them up. When the wagons are being propelled from the fiddle yard onto the layout, of course, they don't need to be coupled which saves more effort. We'll be using scale couplings, by the way, anything else would look awful.

 

This was all sounding promising. We came up with this plan:

 

The shed is only modelled to the length of one engine, the rest is off-scene. The grey rectangle is the coaling area, and the round building is the water tower. The turntable will be from Real Model in Germany, which I have used before....fully digital it comes with a DCC sound decoder and at 23m is long enough for most engines. Being digital it can be operated just like a loco from the hand held controller, so there's no need to stand up to do it.  Where the line runs off scene into the fiddle yard there will be a road bridge with buildings, mainly because I enjoy making them.

 

We are going to use laser cut ply baseboards from Grainge and Hodder, as they are nice and light, though the centre one will have to a special commission....layouts that are not straight look far more interesting. The rectangular boards are 4' x 3' or 1200 x 900mm.

 

Having settled on a plan we had to agree on a location. Although the shed is imaginary we like to base our layouts in a real location. My 141P has an Argentan number plate so somewhere on the Ouest system would be ideal. John came up with the idea of Mantes.

 

Mantes la Jolie is a large town on the Seine west of Paris, where the Ouest main lines to Cherbourg and Le Harve separate. The railway here was extensive:

 

 

There had been a small loco depot, but in this picture it is out of use on the left....

 

 

We thought we could probably get away with re-writing history and basing our shed here. There will be nothing of the real Mantes on the layout, of course, but on the backscene it should be possible to include a picture like this so that anyone familiar with the real place will recognise it:

 

 

The rest of the backscene will be industrial buildings and the like.

 

As there is nothing like having a deadline to focus the mind we agreed to take the layout to Huntingdon in February 2018 as it's first show; then we'll know if it really is possible to operate sitting down for most of the time.

 

Naturally as work progresses I'll be posting here so you can see the layout develop. As a taster, here are some of the engines:

 

 

 

 

Peter

Hi Peter

Wonderful project and do I detect echoes of Dennis Allenden's Ste. Colline?

 

I have a copy of Les Depots Vapeur de l'Ouest published by Vie du Rail and that includes plans of a number of MPDs including Mantes. I think it's available in the French Railways Society library but if not I can always scan a couple of them for you. 

Loco Revue Hors Serie no 49 is all about building an MPD based layout and is definitely available from the library- I'm looking at it right now! As well as a number of plans it also includes quite a lot on the auxiliary buidlings and services associated with an MPD. .

[kirtleypete]

That's blown a hole in things - we hadn't realised that there was a depot at Mantes which is why we chose it for ours! 

 

I'd love to see any information you have on the depot, I'd never heard of the book.

 

Peter

[Pacific231G]

That's blown a hole in things - we hadn't realised that there was a depot at Mantes which is why we chose it for ours! 

 

I'd love to see any information you have on the depot, I'd never heard of the book.

 

Peter

Hi Peter

I've PMd you a copy of the plan of the real Mantes depot. The original in the postcard look interesting and I assume it was disused because the much larger depot had been built half a mile or so to the West just after the junction between the lines to Rouen & Le Havre and to Caen & Cherbourg. 

[kirtleypete]

Our little depot was hidden away at the back of the town and was so obscure that no one photographed it and no plans are known to exist, despite the allocation of Pacifics and 141's! 

 

Such is life, but it's too late to alter the layout name now so we'll stick with it and re-write history. This is what the real Mantes depot was full of......

 

 

Quite apart from the lack of variety, imagine the cost!

 

 

I've solved the problem of the zebra crossing with the young lady holding up the traffic to let the elderly gentleman cross the road. 

 

 

Peter

Edited August 17, 2017 by kirtleypete

[JAMO]

French drivers are very often a lot less courteous than UK ones.

 

In France there is some départements where it can be more dangerous to drive than others.

 

[ianp]

Things have moved on again, with just the roofs left to finish before final detailing such as drain pipes, flower boxes etc. 

 

 

The roofs will lift off and be transported separately. 

 

 

 

 

The street lights, bus stop and traffic light were all put together from odds and ends, mainly of plastic. 

 

 

Our loco's will certainly ignore the sign on the wall; if you've got smoke units in the engines you want to play with them! 

 

 

This is the picture I used for the Dubonnet advert:

 

 

 

 

The traffic light isn't lit but it would be easy enough to do it later on. It's based on a photo I found, probably dating back to the 30's. The glass carrying van has to be at the back as it's from a firm in Lyon! 

 

Peter

 

Great modelling. May I suggest the Dubonnet wall painting should be weathered a little bit?

[kirtleypete]

John and I have decided in view of what we have learned about Mantes that the best thing to do is choose another location and re-name the layout. Our narrow gauge layout 'Mers les Bains' is set near Le Treport, so we have decided to base the new layout in the same area. Just outside Le Treport is the town of Eu, which was the junction where the lines separated. We are placing our engine shed there, which very conveniently was also the border between the Nord and Ouest regions. 

 

We don't think there was a shed at Le Treport, but no doubt if there was no doubt someone will tell me very quickly! However, we're not changing again, the layout will now be called 'Eu (Le Treport) depot'. 

 

Peter

[JAMO]

I've read Le Tréport-Mers les Bains station has a turntable for the Nord locomotives. No shed.

 

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gare_du_Tr%C3%A9port_-_Mers

 

But why not to invent a "annexe traction" located in Eu for the Le Tréport - Amiens line.

 

Or to create a line between Ault to Abbeville. Another "ligne des Bains de Mer".

 

It's only an idea...

[JAMO]

For the warning on the building, SNCF has written the "official" sentence: "EVITER LA FUMEE"

 

And you can add this signal on the left of the track before the tunnel

 

 

[JAMO]

[kirtleypete]

Thanks, I will.

 

Jackie, I like your idea too - thanks,

 

Peter

Edited August 18, 2017 by kirtleypete

[Pacific231G]

John and I have decided in view of what we have learned about Mantes that the best thing to do is choose another location and re-name the layout. Our narrow gauge layout 'Mers les Bains' is set near Le Treport, so we have decided to base the new layout in the same area. Just outside Le Treport is the town of Eu, which was the junction where the lines separated. We are placing our engine shed there, which very conveniently was also the border between the Nord and Ouest regions. 

 

We don't think there was a shed at Le Treport, but no doubt if there was no doubt someone will tell me very quickly! However, we're not changing again, the layout will now be called 'Eu (Le Treport) depot'. 

 

Peter

Hi Peter

Both lines from Paris to Le Treport (via Abbeville and via Beauvais) were Nord and joined at Eu before going up the right bank of the Bresle. The terminus is called Le Treport-Mers  but though on the Mers les Bains side of the river is actually in Le Treport. The Ouest just had a branch from its "new" Dieppe line to Eu. but I see no reason why, particularly if Le Treport had become more fashionable and grown to rival Dieppe, it couldn't have had its own line to Le Treport on the left bank. If that gave them their own route from Paris to Le Treport it would have needed a loco shed and, given how steep the river valley is, Eu would have been an entirely logical location for it.

 

The Nord did have a loco depot at Le Tréport but I think quite a small one  

Edited August 18, 2017 by Pacific231G

[kirtleypete]

That's good enough for me David. 

 

The Nord depot was quite large...........

 

 

...but I think we can claim that the Ouest built their own shed at Eu adjacent to the junctions.

 

 

 

Peter

Edited August 19, 2017 by kirtleypete