FelixM Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Hi all, does someone know where the main reservoir tanks of the Westinghouse brake are located on A1X Terriers? A friend of mine is building a 7mm model of GWR No. 5 Portishead and would like to know where these should be sited and to which orientation, if at all visible. I am passing the question on his behalf. His model: Thanks in advance Felix 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted June 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 19, 2017 Would the GWR examples have retained their air brakes, the GWR & the W,C & P being vac only railways? cheers N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franzburg Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Hello, on prototype photos of Weston, Clevedon , Portishead Railway both types of brakes are fitted( (at least at some) and the photos here should show the condition of A1X shortly after having been purchased by GWR. Regards Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franzburg Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Hello, on prototype photos of Weston, Clevedon , Portishead Railway both types of brakes are fitted( (at least at some) and the photos here should show the condition of A1X shortly after having been purchased by GWR. Regards Bernd I`ve added a photo (Coyright only A. Vaughan) taken 1931 with kind permission of A.V: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) According to the drawings in Tom Middlemass's book "Stroudley and his Terriers", in LBSCR ownership, the air reservoir was mounted between the frames on the right hand side below the cab, behind the rear wheel and in front of the brake cylinder. Not very visible from outside. Not seen any positive evidence that Portishead carried an air brake pump when owned by the GWR. No positive evidence she didn't, either! Edited to add: Just checked up on the other WCPR Terrier GWR No.6 (ex Ashtead) and she was certainly carrying an air pump in GWR livery, so No.5 probably did as well. Edited June 19, 2017 by eastglosmog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franzburg Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 According to the drawings in Tom Middlemass's book "Stroudley and his Terriers", in LBSCR ownership, the air reservoir was mounted between the frames on the right hand side below the cab, behind the rear wheel and in front of the brake cylinder. Not very visible from outside. Not seen any positive evidence that Portishead carried an air brake pump when owned by the GWR. No positive evidence she didn't, either! Edited to add: Just checked up on the other WCPR Terrier GWR No.6 (ex Ashtead) and she was certainly carrying an air pump in GWR livery, so No.5 probably did as well. Thank you a lot for your reply! It helps me, as, because of lacking clear visibility, it doesn`t seem to have been such a big mistake not to have modelled the air reservoir boiler! And very helpful, too, your statement concerning air brakes in GWR livery!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted June 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2017 I guess the air brake would have been a leftover from these locos' days on the LBSC? The GWR was certainly a vac-only railway, and I assume the W, C & P was too - or was it? Maybe it used air brakes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 My view is that it would have been too much trouble to change the loco brake from air to steam, then replace the air/vac valves with vac/steam valves. the locos were air-braked. The KESR locos are air braked with vac brake for the trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The air receiver is under the left hand side of the cab between the frames, the originals had a cut out to fit over the brake cross-shaft, W8 on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway still carries one. The air brake cylinder is under the right hand / middle side of the cab floor. More modern air receivers are smaller (cut out not allowed on a modern pressure vessel) hence need extra receivers to make the volume up, these may be under the running plate at the rear. No equalising reservoir as built but some have had these (and a valve) added recently. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 The air receiver is under the left hand side of the cab between the frames, Are you sure that applied to all Terriers, Pete? I ask because the General Arrangement drawing in Tom Middlemass's book definitely shows the air reservoir on the right hand side, in front of the brake cylinder. Just how typical of Terriers are the back end of W8's frames? After all, she had the Westinghouse brake and pump removed and was converted to vacuum by the LSWR in 1903 and only reconverted back to Westinghouse by the Southern in 1924. It also had motor train gear fitted by the Southern in 1927 rather than in 1908 by the LBSC as was the case with Portishead - the fittings may well have differed. From what is shown on the GA drawing, I believe the large reservoir required for the motor gear was fitted under the footplate on the left hand side. Mind you, for all I know, the air brake reservoir could have been moved over to accommodate the motor gear reservoir! However, as far as Portishead is concerned, if that was the case, the air reservoir would still have been on the right hand side in front of the brake cylinder when owned by the WCPR and passed to the GWR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 This air receiver actually came from W11 but was used on 8 as that one was the first restored. I have not seen the Tom Middlemas book but any air receiver on the right hand side in front of the brake cylinder would be very small and inadequate in size as the Main Reservoir. W11 had been air fitted by the Brighton and has remained so throughout its working life. This receiver is of iron rivetted construction and certainly of some age, it is still sound and passes a hydraulic test though its method of construction cannot be copied for new. In addition to the Main Res (which stores the air supply) there will be a much smaller auxillary reservoir, this is fed from the Main Res and supplies the air to activate the brake cylinder via the Triple Valve, this may well be the one on the right hand side. For a motor fitted air braked loco the control air supply is taken from the Main Res, There is no seperate large receiver. Obviously a vacum braked loco would need a storage receiver for control air but this would be smaller than a Main Res I believe a small additional reservoir is also needed as part of the control system. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Further to above Just been checking some photos. A picture of W11 as no 40 Brighton taken in 1878 just after the Paris Exhibition clearly shows the Main Reservoir visible under the cab, back end roughly in line with the cab backsheet. Not clear which side this is on but must be the left as it occupies the space the brake cylinder uses on the right. Other terrier photos show similar (when anything can be seen at all), I am 99% sure this is the "Standard" fit but as you well know certainly by later years there was little standard about any of the Terriers. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJEB Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 eastglosmog's post of 19 June 2017 - 18:19 says "Not seen any positive evidence that Portishead carried an air brake pump when owned by the GWR. No positive evidence she didn't, either!". I attach two photos of WC&PR Terrier No 2 'Portishead' in GWR days. First the GWR photo of the locomotive in Clevedon WC&PR shed on 18 September 1940 upon return from refurbishment at Swindon with air pump and then Real Photographs photo of the locomotive in BR days down Newton Abbot way with GWR shed code 'TN': Taunton without air pump. Take your pick / choose your period, noting also the condensing pipes &c! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Well, that's proof enough for me she carried an airbrake pump in GWR ownership! Wonder when she lost it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted July 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2017 Slightly OT, but in regards to usage of brakes, am I right in remembering from when I drove 662 that the air brake was loco only, while the vacuum brake was train only? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Yes When Terriers were vacuum fitted in SR days they retained the air brake on the loco (actually dual fitted although air not normally required for train working) Early conversions for example LSWR purchases lost the air brake completely and were vacuum only, loco brake likely being steam there being little space to fit a vacuum brake cylinder. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMY Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 (edited) GWR Terriers No. 5 and No. 6 (modified Dapol models): Edited June 11, 2022 by DMY Re-attach photo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus1 Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 I've recently unearthed a couple of copies of the Colin Binnie book "The Brighton Terriers" by Ravensbourne Press. I'll have a look in there for any further information when one emerges again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyngford East Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 It seems from the photo taken shunting at Taunton all brake hoses and pump were removed and steam brake fitted for shunting only - hence P-Way engineer's yard in background. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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