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Spiked turnouts and track in P4


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Hello All,

 

As many may be aware I have been floating around here a little while, asking questions and trying to read up on all the info. My main areas of interest is industrial lines, particularly ironstone lines and to a lesser extent colliery lines. I now find myself with a little time to start planning a layout and have been having a play in Templot - all straightforward so far - lots of info on the web. Having looked and pondered over many photos, I have noticed that track is a mix:

 

Spiked 1:

 

 

post-5613-0-50400200-1421620849_thumb.jp

From Dave Fords excellent posts here

 

Spiked 2 (more screws):

 

post-5613-0-59876200-1421620840_thumb.jp

Again thanks to Dave Ford here.

 

I have no idea how/what the best way to model this is. Any ideas?

 

Spiked 3:

 

jacksgreen1970-E.jpg

 

(Image taken from http://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk/blog/jacks-green-at-nassington-quarry-1970-2/)

 

So, I have never built a point or track before, and never attempted P4. Most of what i have read indicates I should have a practice. So based on this advice and based on my modelling area of interest I set myself a couple of rules (well guidelines if you will):

 

- 3 points/switches; 2 spiked flat bottom and 1 chaired bullhead.

- mixture of flat and bullhead running lines

- incorporate some form of incline

 

The idea behind this was that a lot of quarry track was spiked construction, with main lines chaired bull head rail. Also, inclines are common down to the quarry face. Potentially this could be turned into a cameo layout if it all goes well. Now I need to build some test track to test locos and stock on. I have some straight lengths of C&L bullhead flexitrack which should do to get me going.

 

So based on the above, i have developed the following plan to fit within a 4ft x ft 6" space.

 

post-23366-0-64069400-1497903294_thumb.png

 

it is inspired by this video I found, it also gives the gist of the operations:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0BBe0SKbB4

 

And here is a still:

 

post-23366-0-70440800-1497903368_thumb.png

 

Now the track plan needs refinement. So any hints are gladly received.

 

Now for the questions.

 

1) is it likely that the majority is of the flat bottom is 75lb? I found this link discussing what code to use https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5412 on the scale four website. Now the tricky bit - can I punch in the actual dimensions into templot, or will I need to scale the code 70 to get the dimensions? ie rescale from 3.5mm to the real world so then templot can scale back to 4mm scale?

 

I was thinking of using the Proto87 shop as source of code 70 flat bottom and relevant spikes. I know a little underscale, but there does not seem to be much alternative for the type of spiked track in the first image.

 

2) the third image shoes what appears to be BR1 baseplate arrangement - again would this likely be 109lb rail or code 82/83 equivalent full size rail or lighter 75lb rail? Source or components here? Colin Craig?

 

3) in templot is there any way to adjust the type of chairs for flat bottom rail to reflect the above?

 

4) switches - most industrial lines I assume would be straight switches? Just in the process of creating a custom turnouts.

 

5) Any hints and tips most welcome.

 

I think that is all the q's for now. I'm sure there will be more when I start building.

 

Cheers,

 

James

 

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1)Now the tricky bit - can I punch in the actual dimensions into templot, or will I need to scale the code 70 to get the dimensions? ie rescale from 3.5mm to the real world so then templot can scale back to 4mm scale?

 

Hi James,

 

You have lost me there. In Templot you set the rail dimensions to match the prototype sizes, at real > rails > rail section data... . If you know only the measured dimensions of the model rail, you can enter this in mm by prefixing the data with a letter s. So for example if your rail measures 0.8mm wide at the head, you would enter this as s0.8 If you do this, make sure you have set your correct scale first, e.g. P4, so that Templot can do the calculations.

 

3) in Templot is there any way to adjust the type of chairs for flat bottom rail to reflect the above?

 

Templot doesn't show any chair detail at all. I have some experimental code which does this, but it is a minefield of prototype sizes and types. I don't think it will ever see the light of day, not because it won't work, but because I don't think I am capable of writing workable instructions for users. It is just too complicated. Sorry.

 

However Templot can print the templates with flat-bottom rail -- it's a big help when construction them to have the rail foot showing: real > rails > head and foot .

 

But looking at your video, there is a lot of bullhead track?

 

4) switches - most industrial lines I assume would be straight switches?

 

Yes.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

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Hi James,

 

You have lost me there. In Templot you set the rail dimensions to match the prototype sizes, at real > rails > rail section data... . If you know only the measured dimensions of the model rail, you can enter this in mm by prefixing the data with a letter s. So for example if your rail measures 0.8mm wide at the head, you would enter this as s0.8 If you do this, make sure you have set your correct scale first, e.g. P4, so that Templot can do the calculations.

 

 

Templot doesn't show any chair detail at all. I have some experimental code which does this, but it is a minefield of prototype sizes and types. I don't think it will ever see the light of day, not because it won't work, but because I don't think I am capable of writing workable instructions for users. It is just too complicated. Sorry.

 

However Templot can print the templates with flat-bottom rail -- it's a big help when construction them to have the rail foot showing: real > rails > head and foot .

 

But looking at your video, there is a lot of bullhead track?

 

 

Yes.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

Thanks for the reply Martin,

 

Yes, there was plenty of bullhead rail used. A lot (although not all) seems to be laid along the main running lines and the temporary  track down to the quarry face spiked, and in 30ft sections. I wanted to create the feel of temporariness with the track.

 

 

SirTomas2.jpg

(from http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/1334.HTM)

 

here is a bit of both

 

SirTomas5.jpg

 

Regarding question/answer 1) - that makes perfect sense. I can enter in the dimensions of the actual rail being used, and it will calculate the correct spacing between the rail head. Perfect. I was thinking that I had to enter in the 1:1 scale dimensions of the rail and it would scale it down accordingly and create a code of rail that does not exist, if that makes sense.

 

Regarding question/answer 2) - thank you - found this link also http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2042& which explains it in even more detail. So much to learn! I can align up the rail foot and the chairs should take care of them selves.

 

Thanks for the help - never knew there was so much to learn about track!

 

James

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