More 3D - adding something new every week

[rue_d_etropal]

It was only when I started looking into details, that I realised how useful they are, and complex and lots of misleading info. There are a few errors in descriptions of the 1st class coach that has now been restored, partly due to repairs and cross patching being done. Even the recorded coach numbers sold to the WCPR seem to be wrong. I am trying to confirm some details there as the Colonel Stephens SocietyI am niw a member) has a very good source of info. Would like to find more photo though. The ones for the Mid Suffolk, are few, and the ones that are in book are not of highest detail. The ones of the coaches prior to then, on the Met are actually a lot better.

Some unusual detail on these coaches. The panelling below windiows is raised, but above is sucken. I think this is because window glass was fitted from inside. This can be clearly seen on the restored coach. When some of these were modified to run with later stock, after electrication, panelling was changed to match later stock. This has meant I had to design coaches in a different way, andpanelling might be a bit more pronounced than it should be. If it wasn't it might not show up when printed. Combining two types of panelling, with tumblehomes on both sides and ends added to the fun, but I think I got there in the end.

 

What I have now found, because I introduced two new scales between OO and O, is at what point Shapeways use of space starts to be a benefit. For these coaches it was from 1/64 scale to1/55. The 1/55 one(bigger) is cheaper than the 1/64 scale version. Basically it is the internal width. What I have therefore deduced is that pricewise smaller scales and bigger scales are better value than the middle ones, which unfortunately includes OO scale. Can't do anything about that. Having said that, I think it is good value if you don't want to ( or can't build a brass kit). I keep saying it, but 3D printing should not be compared with complex kits, I am mainly aiming at a different market(although happy to have kit builders as customers). I don't want to compete with kit manufacturers, but do want to open up the hobby, and r2r can only interset so many people.

Edited June 14, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rue_d_etropal]

Thought I would move staight onto the ex Met coaches sold to the Mid Suffolk Light Railway. Not many photos of them, but enough to work out mods. They were ex Circle line so had shorter wheelbase. Doors in ends were main change, and I have assumed end coaches of sets had standard buffers and inside ones were short buffers for close coupling. Noticed a couple of other changes on the brake coach, which were actually ex brake seconds not thirds.

Done a mock up on my virtual test track.

There were two 3 car sets, each pointing in different directions so if combined would have a brake at each end. There was also a seventh coach, said to be an ex all third, converted into a composite(1st/3rd). It could be run in other trains and would also fit between the two 3 car sets. I reason thatit would have the standard buffers not the short ones, so have done a separate design for it. I also reason that it would have had the end doors, buthave not seen any photos to confirm.

I will work through these, then start(hopefully) on te WCPR ones as I am now pretty hppy on which ones they had and the step design(based on Dewry railcars).The MSLR then need the ex GER full brake which was conveted from a brake third and I have found a drawing of that and I think I have worked out how it was converted. Might then have to do the GER version of the horsebox I have already done for LTSR, and the the ex GER brakevan, as one of these also ended up on the Shropshire and Montgomery line.

[rue_d_etropal]

Before moving onto the WCPR versions, I thought I should see what happens if I remove roof and just orint coach body for O and G1. I did some tests before , but they were not as conclusive as I hoped, but will go back and try again, as trying it out for these Met coaches and cost of basic body is half that of complete one in O gauge and about a third price of G1 version.

I don't think it saves much for smaller scales.

 

 

Just added the basic body option for O and G1 Metropolitan coaches , will start to see which other coaches can be done as well.

Edited June 17, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[rue_d_etropal]

started on WCPR versions. I think I have the steps correct now. They stick out further than I would hav expectesd, but bringing them in closer does not look right. These coaches were not photograhed that much. Coach 13 and its pair no 8, is more common than others.

It looked like the top running board on coach was removed, and steps fitted. The lower one is definitey not present, but it looks what is the top step continues along coach. Not sure why as other doors were locked. Probaly easier to fit than remove if rquired.

Fitted with the distinctve(but crude) end doors. These doors were only 5ft tall and 18in wide, so hopefully only thin guards were employed! In each pair, buffers were only fitted to one coach.I presume this was to shorten gap even more between coaches.

[John_Hughes]

I believe the guard was supposed to walk along the outside of the coach checking tickets while the train was on the move, hence the need for the long top step.

 

Safe enough at the speeds the WC&P got up to, I suppose, though I can't imagine that the Inspectorate would have approved.

[rue_d_etropal]

I believe the guard was supposed to walk along the outside of the coach checking tickets while the train was on the move, hence the need for the long top step.

 

Safe enough at the speeds the WC&P got up to, I suppose, though I can't imagine that the Inspectorate would have approved.

That would make sense if they had kept the whole running board, but they did not. The end doors were for the guard to climb through(hardly could walk through!). As only the passenger doors at ends had handles, the others wer locked, it would have been difficult for the guard to issue tickets, unless someone opened the window. If the train was crowded it might have been difficult for guard to get through(but that is still a problem on today's railways!).

[rue_d_etropal]

Just completed the WCPR versions, now all uploaded, and Iam relieved to have finished. Hopefully new info won't mean I have to make changes. I have no done anything different for the Nidd Valley ones, but I assume they were unaltered. The Met did also modify(quite a lot) the remaining coaches, to match the newer ones being built.

What I have learned is the different types of panelling. The original Met ones has different top half to bottonm half. Ithen realised ends wee more like the lower type, and that different railway companies had one or the other, sometimes a mixture.

Basically one is more like what I think of as panelling, with panel inset into the coach body, and the other is more like beading fitted to the coach side. Something I will have to check out on any new coach designs I do. In smaler scales, it is more difficult to spot the difference. I only spotted that the ends wee 'beading' after I had done much of the work, resulting in my altering all the designs. The pics I have here show them as I originlly did them, so are not quite correct, bbut the designs are altered, so are more correct than before.

Edited June 25, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[cnw6847]

The coaches look good, especially like the Mid Suffolk Railway ones.

 

Have you had any of them printed yet and do the coaches have interiors?

 

Thank you

 

Richard

[rue_d_etropal]

I don't tend to get new designs printed myself, I have learned enough over past 5 years to work out what works, and the Shapeways checking tools are pretty good these days. I use CAD software which is more suited to these types of designs than some that is used.

As for interior, no. Easy enough for the most modellers. Also there is virtually no info on the interiors, especially those modified.

THe MSLR versions were based on what the original Met coaches were like, and interpreting the small amount of info published about the MSLR. Even there, a couple of assumptions are probably not correct, and I have also made a couple of my own assumptions. The only photos of these coaches on the MSLR are pretty poor. Pity as some of the ones of them taken earlier in Met days are actually very good.

[cnw6847]

Thank you for your reply Simon.

 

I wonder if the Mid Suffolk Railway Museum have any info on the interiors.

[ullypug]

Thought I would move staight onto the ex Met coaches sold to the Mid Suffolk Light Railway. Not many photos of them, but enough to work out mods. They were ex Circle line so had shorter wheelbase. Doors in ends were main change, and I have assumed end coaches of sets had standard buffers and inside ones were short buffers for close coupling. Noticed a couple of other changes on the brake coach, which were actually ex brake seconds not thirds.

Done a mock up on my virtual test track.

There were two 3 car sets, each pointing in different directions so if combined would have a brake at each end. There was also a seventh coach, said to be an ex all third, converted into a composite(1st/3rd). It could be run in other trains and would also fit between the two 3 car sets. I reason thatit would have the standard buffers not the short ones, so have done a separate design for it. I also reason that it would have had the end doors, buthave not seen any photos to confirm.

I will work through these, then start(hopefully) on te WCPR ones as I am now pretty hppy on which ones they had and the step design(based on Dewry railcars).The MSLR then need the ex GER full brake which was conveted from a brake third and I have found a drawing of that and I think I have worked out how it was converted. Might then have to do the GER version of the horsebox I have already done for LTSR, and the the ex GER brakevan, as one of these also ended up on the Shropshire and Montgomery line.

 

Hi Simon

I've been away for a couple of weeks or else I would have replied sooner.

the coaches look very good. Having commissioned and built 3 of the Bill Bedford ones I think you've got the look of them just right. Coach No 7 was a 4 compartment ex first and was indeed used as a supplementary vehicle. I've quite a few photos of the line and coaches and I don't think Ive got any of it sandwiched between the close coupled pairs. I believe the close coupled pairs were permanently coupled and were all ex 5 compartment thirds. They weren't originally brake thirds but had the end compartment converted whilst on the line. Some of them had a shorter wheelbase than the standard. Coach No 7 is preserved and is presently on the KESR, having been converted back to the Met configuration and end doors removed. The top steps were indeed removed, though there were a couple of longer ones covering the guards compartment from what I can see.

A couple of links to the WCPR website which has some information below and I've attached extracts of photos from my collection.

https://www.wcpr.org.uk/Carriages.html

https://www.wcpr.org.uk/metropolitan.html

[rue_d_etropal]

Coach 13 is in more photos than others. It seemed to have lost one set of steps(guards) in 1937-38, based on photos. One coach, no 8, paired with no 13 was a short wheelbase. No 7 was the odd one out, and is the one that has been restored. It also had slightly different end doors than the others.

I have been lucky to have been supplied a lot of info from the Colonel Stephen Society, and one aim is to make rolling stock and locos that ran on CS lines, more easily available. Not everyon(in fact most people) can not build an etched brass kit, and  increasing the number of scales modelled can only improve the hobby.

[CarriageShed]

As a brief aside, have you seen Peter Snow's Great Rail Restorations, Ep 4 of 5, Channel 4, 27 June 2018? Having found out that this LSWR royal saloon was still in service until 1931 (I model 1929/1930), I'd have to add this to the collection if you'd one day care to produce it (in N gauge, of course).

Until then, keep up the good work on this current project. Although they're no good for me, I'm still following with interest.

[rue_d_etropal]

Which royal saloon?. I have books by G Weddell.

 

Found it , no 17. Apart from being preserved now, not that special, but will think about it. I now know more about coach panelling, so will look carefully at this one.

Edited June 30, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[CarriageShed]

True it wasn't that special after being converted into a picnic saloon, but I'm always on the hunt for the unusual that can be run in a 1930 setting. Adding this with its clerestory roof to a race or summer special would be an interesting sight.

Anyway, just plying you with ideas until you give up and print one of them

[rue_d_etropal]

As it is preserved that makes it interesting for me as well. A long way from home as it is at Embsay.

[rue_d_etropal]

After doing theclass 506 EU, I had intended to do the modified 306 version, but wa uncertainof front end details. For some reason no drawing of modified cab windows, but with a bit of help, and confiration, worked out position of central screen(assumed to be BR standard?) andnow have completed the modifued version

[rue_d_etropal]

Knocked this little diity today. Nice to get back to simple coaches, and only one!

The LSWR Royal Saloon No 17, as recently restored as part of Ch4 TV program.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

After doing theclass 506 EU, I had intended to do the modified 306 version, but wa uncertainof front end details. For some reason no drawing of modified cab windows, but with a bit of help, and confiration, worked out position of central screen(assumed to be BR standard?) andnow have completed the modifued version

Hi Simon

 

Rebuilt cab drawing for the 306 appeared in Practical Model Railways, April 1987. The plating on the rebuilt DMS cab was quite distinctive. They were quite comfortable to travel in outside of peak hours. 

 

They were AM6s before becoming TOPS class 306. AM1s were the ex LNWR stock converted to run on the Morecombe- Lancaster line.

[CarriageShed]

Knocked this little diity today. Nice to get back to simple coaches, and only one!

The LSWR Royal Saloon No 17, as recently restored as part of Ch4 TV program.

 

 

In just a day (or less)? I'm assuming that's pretty good going, seeing as I know nothing about 3D design! It looks very good though.

[rue_d_etropal]

Been having a few internet probs.Initially thought it was due to being slowed down by football and tennis, but turned out it was probably a dodgy router box, used as an extra. Was rushing a few things, but have now corrected pictures.

 

 

 

n just a day (or less)? I'm assuming that's pretty good going, seeing as I know nothing about 3D design! It looks very good though.

 

One reason I like doing coaches, is that most are relatively simple to do, especially the older pre-group ones, which probably have more potential interest. Of course it helps if I have good drawings, and Weddell's books were a good investment.

Edited July 10, 2018 by rue_d_etropal

[CarriageShed]

I'd agree that Weddell's books were a good investment, even without the 3D modelling. I've used them to hack four Graham Farish suburban carriages (so far) into something far more representative of pre-Grouping stock. It takes quite a bit of time for each coach, though. I can certainly see the benefits of 3D replacing this, even without the fact that my hacks are still compromises, even if they may look the part.

 

What would you do about a chassis for this (in N)? Would it fit onto a cut-down Farish suburban chassis?

[rue_d_etropal]

It has a basic chassis, which could be cut off, but simply fitting bogie supports wuold do. All it needs is a flat chassis, to which the bogies are fitted. This just sits withing the 3D printed chasis. Then you can make sure chasssis plate and bogies run ok, and simply put the coach body on top.

[CarriageShed]

That sounds okay. The Farish chassis is flat enough and the bogies are pretty representative of the real thing, so many modellers may prefer to use that, safe in the knowledge that they will have a chassis which doesn't need any fettling.

Ignore the fact that I've cut this one into pieces. It's just to display the Farish bogies and the pivot attachment:

 

Possibly the alternative is building up the 3D chassis with extra detailing and bogies...

[rue_d_etropal]

Looking at those bogies, all you need is a piece of thick plastic the right length to fit inside chassis and supported by base of coach inside.