Gladiator 7mm Stanier Duchess

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I'm still waiting for my motor and gearbox from ABC, so with nothing better to do I decided to make the brake and water scoop operating links to the front of the tender chassis. I should also add the rods under the footplate, although the one for the brake was covered. However, I think they will only be visible when the tender is separated from the loco so may leave them off.

 

I also bought a storage box from Ellis Clark, as the one the kit come with is too small for the completed model. This is the large one but he also does a medium and small size for smaller locos.

 

It comes with various bits of foam to protect the model. Here it is with model.

 

To identify what's in the box I photographed the Gladiator labels, printed and cut them out, then stuck them on the box.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

The final details to add were the couplings, but the ones provided in the kit are a bit genreic, so I bought some LMS ones from Laurie Griffin. Not cheap but worth it considering the effort spent in getting all the visible detail correct.

Here they are after assembly and cleaned up.

 

In prototypical fashion the upper links are two separate pieces that need to be cranked outward to fit on the turn buckle. They need to be a tight fit at the hook end to prevent them spreading at the buckle, but still be able to swing. I couldn't get a satisfactory result using the cast pin and retaining washer, so replaced them with a 16 BA nut an bolt. Here they are in place on the tender.

 

And on the loco.

 

I'll chemically blacken them along with the buffer heads and wheel rims when I strip it down for painting.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited January 21, 2018 by PAD

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Oh so good. I'm going to Reading tomorrow with a list as long as my arm thanks to you!!!!!!!

 

Both Laurie Griffin and Ragstone will be there and will be more than willing to take my money. Still as you said, Why skimp after all that lovely hard work.

 

Pete

[PAD]

Hi Peter

 

Oh so good. I'm going to Reading tomorrow with a list as long as my arm thanks to you!!!!!!!

 

Both Laurie Griffin and Ragstone will be there and will be more than willing to take my money. Still as you said, Why skimp after all that lovely hard work.

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete,

Don't  blame me for your lack will power.  

 

I was hoping to go myself but can't make it, so I won't be  tempted. You know what those unscrupulous traders are like with their Aladdin's caves, flaunting their wares and forcing us to spend money!   

 

Have a good one  and  I hope you can get  all the goodies you need.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[N15class]

We are 10 days too late getting to the UK for reading. Poor planing on our part.

[Horsetan]

.... Poor planing on our part.

The solution must surely be to use a sharper plane.

[JeffP]

Would that be a plane that gets there more sharply?

[PAD]

I had an email from ABC to confirm dispatch of the motor/gearbox so hopefully I can get it installed and the pick ups added next week.

 

One final task was to add a strip of brass shim to edge of the bogie sliders. After I cut them back to gain clearance on the bends, it exposed a slot where the remains of the slider casting hole had been.

 

The strips of N/S at the pivot hole are to move the bogie forward by 1mm to give clearance between the brake hangers and rear wheels on the bends. I also moved the front steps forward slightly so there are no issues with the front wheels. Not prototypical but not noticeable.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Had a great day at Reading, and yes I spent far to much money, much to the delight of the traders!!!!!!!

 

Anyway talking to the nice man at Ragstone About valves, as you do, He showed me a thingie which he said went along the top of the boiler in the cab ( I now know it's called a Steam fountain and I can see why )

 

And for £6.00 I bought it.

 

Hear are just some of my goodies.

 

And the Steam fountain

 

Guess what I'm doing today.

 

I meet Dikitriki at Finney and saw his DOS Got to say WOW and also talked to Brian about their kits.

 

So hear goes.  I have been making models for over 50 years, from plastic, balsa wood, RC fixed wing to a Helicopter ( mid 80s, 40 in dia rota, 40ci Glow ) blar blar blar   

 

A year and a half in on my new O gauge modelling I feel I must say something about the kits on offer out there.  How many modellers out there who have got so frustrated over the instruction ( or lack of ) that the kit

 

ends up in a draw to be returned too but never have. My first, the Terrier I could not have done without visiting York museum and taken lots of pics of Boxhill. My second being Gladiator's DOS again with out pics and Peter's wondrous

 

build, I would have as I have already said, ended up with an average build at best.

 

The Finney kits come with instruction second to none as Brian showed me. Every part pictured, numbered and most importantly NAMED. to someone like me who doesn't know the names would have been a great help, and with a very 

 

comprehensive set of illustrated instruction you would be hard pusher to go wrong. 

 

Anyone starting out I would say Pay the money and buy a Finney if only to learn the ins and outs of the duck arse. Would I swop my Gladiator DOS for a Finney one, No I would not and hears why.

 

The Finney is all layed out for you, and I think the fire box, boiler and smoke box as a one piece resin is a cop out. The Gladiator kit allows you to personalised it, to put your stamp onto your build and good old scratch building as

 

demonstrated by Peter. 

 

As I am still on a learning curve, my third build will be a Finney V2.

 

To all companies out their GUYS LOOK AT YOUR INSTRUCTION and think of the new people like me who wish to build great models without to much frustration over the poor illustrations and the lack of identified parts/positions.

 

I hope I haven't ruffled any feathers as this is not my intention, just needed to get it of my chest.

 

Pete

[Horsetan]

....Anyone starting out I would say Pay the money and buy a Finney if only to learn the ins and outs of the duck arse. Would I swop my Gladiator DOS for a Finney one, No I would not and hears why.

 

The Finney is all layed out for you, and I think the fire box, boiler and smoke box as a one piece resin is a cop out. The Gladiator kit allows you to personalised it, to put your stamp onto your build and good old scratch building as

 

demonstrated by Peter. 

 

As I am still on a learning curve, my third build will be a Finney V2.

 

To all companies out their GUYS LOOK AT YOUR INSTRUCTION and think of the new people like me who wish to build great models without to much frustration over the poor illustrations and the lack of identified parts/positions.

 

I hope I haven't ruffled any feathers as this is not my intention, just needed to get it of my chest.

Whichever brand you choose, at least your mistakes will be all your own work.

[PAD]

The Maxon motor arrived yesterday from ABC, and the first thing I did was remove the gearbox and clean it in white spirit. This removes any swarf and after drying and oiling, I refitted it and gave it a run for an hour or so with an axle in place.

 

After fitting into the chassis, I added a small spacer at the rear of the frames for the motor to rest on. Excuse the excess solder. I'll clean that up after I remove the motor as I don't want to risk getting filings in the gears.

 

Here's how the motor rests on the spacer. In front of the motor is the spacer added for mounting the pick ups for the rear and centre drivers.

 

The front pick ups are mounted using the rear valve gear bracket screw. Here they are in place before bending the phosphor bronze wipers to shape.

 

And all fitted and wired up. Excuse the messy solder. I was in a rush and short of time but will tidy that up later.

 

Here's a side view of the motor position.

 

A quick run up and down a length of track suggests all is well, but I'll give it a run on the rollers for an hour each way before testing further.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by PAD

[PAD]

Hi Peter

 

Had a great day at Reading, and yes I spent far to much money, much to the delight of the traders!!!!!!!

 

Anyway talking to the nice man at Ragstone About valves, as you do, He showed me a thingie which he said went along the top of the boiler in the cab ( I now know it's called a Steam fountain and I can see why )

 

And for £6.00 I bought it.

 

Hear are just some of my goodies.DSC_0648.JPG

 

And the Steam fountainDSC_0649.JPG

 

Guess what I'm doing today.

 

I meet Dikitriki at Finney and saw his DOS Got to say WOW and also talked to Brian about their kits.

 

So hear goes.  I have been making models for over 50 years, from plastic, balsa wood, RC fixed wing to a Helicopter ( mid 80s, 40 in dia rota, 40ci Glow ) blar blar blar   

 

A year and a half in on my new O gauge modelling I feel I must say something about the kits on offer out there.  How many modellers out there who have got so frustrated over the instruction ( or lack of ) that the kit

 

ends up in a draw to be returned too but never have. My first, the Terrier I could not have done without visiting York museum and taken lots of pics of Boxhill. My second being Gladiator's DOS again with out pics and Peter's wondrous

 

build, I would have as I have already said, ended up with an average build at best.

 

The Finney kits come with instruction second to none as Brian showed me. Every part pictured, numbered and most importantly NAMED. to someone like me who doesn't know the names would have been a great help, and with a very 

 

comprehensive set of illustrated instruction you would be hard pusher to go wrong. 

 

Anyone starting out I would say Pay the money and buy a Finney if only to learn the ins and outs of the duck arse. Would I swop my Gladiator DOS for a Finney one, No I would not and hears why.

 

The Finney is all layed out for you, and I think the fire box, boiler and smoke box as a one piece resin is a cop out. The Gladiator kit allows you to personalised it, to put your stamp onto your build and good old scratch building as

 

demonstrated by Peter. 

 

As I am still on a learning curve, my third build will be a Finney V2.

 

To all companies out their GUYS LOOK AT YOUR INSTRUCTION and think of the new people like me who wish to build great models without to much frustration over the poor illustrations and the lack of identified parts/positions.

 

I hope I haven't ruffled any feathers as this is not my intention, just needed to get it of my chest.

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete,

Glad you  got  all the  goodies you  wanted.  I thought  about  changing the  steam fountain but decided that as  it's tucked away on top of  the  back plate, the  white metal one  would  pass muster.

 

Instructions can be  variable  in quality and  the  suppliers don't always refer to the  individual parts by name (e.g. the steam fountain, the cylinder relief valve etc.) only the  number. To be  honest, knowing  the  names  of  the  parts comes from experience and  research - books, books and more  books  and of  course the  internet these days.  I have  had  books  and articles from magazines for  years on various prototypes that as  yet  I have  not  built, but  the  fact  is  you  can never have  too much information.

 

I don't agree that the  cast resin smokebox/boiler/firebox is  a cop out.  Its just a faster way to achieve the  same objective, and if you  can afford to and  are willing to pay for it  then why not.  Personally I prefer the  etched option as I enjoy building in brass/nickel silver, and  I am not  building to a deadline, but  each to his own.

 

Thanks again for  the  kind words. I'm glad that you can take  something from my build to help with yours.  I did the  same with Richard Lambert's Finney build on Western Thunder.

 

FYI, the  ABC gearbox is  a two stage VMS2C  with a 26:1 gear ratio and 6W 12V Maxon  which will give you a top speed of around 90 mph. It's not  cheap, (£118 including postage) but  worth it in my opinion.  The chassis is  currently spinning away on some  blocks (I'm too lazy to dig out  the rollers) and I'll take  a video and post it later.

 

Feel free to keep posting updates on yours on here, or take the plunge and start your own thread.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Dave Holt]

After fitting into the chassis, I added a small spacer at the rear of the frames for the motor to rest on. Excuse the excess solder. I'll clean that up after I remove the motor as I don't want to risk getting filings in the gears.

 

 

Here's how the motor rests on the spacer. In front of the motor is the spacer added for mounting the pick ups for the rear and centre drivers.

 

 

 

Here's a side view of the motor position.

 

 

A quick run up and down a length of track suggests all is well, but I'll give it a run on the rollers for an hour each way before testing further.

 

 

Cheers,

Peter

Peter,

Is the motor/gearbox restrained from rotating round the axle when in reverse? Obviously, you additional spacer prevents rotation the other way.

Dave.

[Petebe]

Hi Peter

 

Thank you for the encouragement, but I'm far from ready to start my own thread. Need to buy lots of books first. lol

 

Like you I would prefer to brass it out over resin where pos.

 

Tried Something yesterday.

 

 

I then filled the slot with canopy glue. It's a glue to stick canopy's on with                                                            It dries clear and rubbery. 

 

 

Have done some of the pipe work. Just laid on at the moment. Did you make the valve to the left and the one to the right ?

 

I cant find the regulator or the regulator gland, not in the kit, nor can I find the bit just below.

 

These are the only bits I cant identify

 

When I bought her Ladyship I asked David about the motor, he told me to use Mashima so I got one. I got it to sit nicely within the chassis with just a small mod to the mount. Because of this I made the centre axle fixed.

 

Talking to Richard on Saturday and seen the ABC fitted to his DOS I may well go down same route. My rear axle is sprung, Richard said that that would be alright to have it floating. How much twist is there between forward and rev ?

 

I was going to use Slater's plunger pickups but your way looks far far better. I take it you're using spring steel as the contacts.

 

Got to say you must have a very large track to be able to get her up to 90 mph !!!!!!!

 

Yeah I know scale speed

 

Pete

[84B Oxley]

Pete

 

Top casting is, I think, connected with the AWS. I believe it is called a timing cylinder and sits in front of the firebox on the driver's side running plate. The two castings on the right look like lubricators which sit on the running plate close to the boiler. Not sure about the bottom one but it could be connected with the AWS and might go in the cab.

Hope this helps (a bit!)

 

Jeff 

[PAD]

Hi Pete,

That's a nifty piece of work on the gauge glass casting.

 

The valves to the right and left are modified castings from the spares box, as is the one underneath the stuffing gland which came with the kit. The regulator handle is scratch built as the one provided was white metal. Drop a line to David Hill and I'm sure he will send you the missing parts.

 

I agree with Jeff's comments on the parts you cannot identify. The gravity lubricators are not required for the Duchess. They are for a Black 5 and as you are building yours to the same period as mine (1952 -1957) you don't need the AWS parts either. Put them in the "spares box" as you never know when you might need them in the future.

 

I have added an extra piece of waste etch to the rear spacer so that it can be held with tape to stop it rotating.

 

The pick up wire is 0.5mm phosphor bronze from Eileens Emporium. You can buy it via their website.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a layout and my brother's is only a branch line terminus, so even if her ladyship hitches up her skirts, she won't get anywhere near 90 mph, scale or otherwise. The chassis is running pretty nicely now and I'll post a video later.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[PAD]

Here's the video of the chassis.

Cheers,

Peter

 

[david.hill64]

Petebe: Sorry about the missing regulator, gland and blower valve. I know we have regulators and glands in stock but the blower valve is a pig to cast so you may have to wait until next month with your new firebox..............

[Petebe]

Thanks guys for the info, as Peter said, straight into the spares box they shall go.

 

David. I'm going to have a go at making said parts, as always you're on the ball, Thank you.

 

I've decided to get the ABC motor and gear box. If I can't get it to fit I'll use it on my next build.

 

Pete

[Rob Pulham]

Not wishing to take anything away from the very ingenious job of drilling out the site glasses that Pete has done I thought it worth mentioning that over on Western Thunder/the Guild forum Nic Dunhill has cut out the brass section of the sight glass and replaced it with 2mm perspex rod.

 

 After an enquiry Nick very kindly sent me a piece of the 2mm rod but warned that his supplier had gone out of business and that his stock was dwindling after giving a few pieces away.

 

This prompted me to do a bit of searching until I found some. Sadly like many things bought online, although the base item wasn't that expensive, the fixed postage was a killer. So I ended up buying 11 meters of the stuff to make it more cost effective. It still worked out at £1 per length (500mm) but I didn't think that too out of the way. 

 

Should anyone have a need/desire for some to improve their backheads, I will be happy to bring some along to Guild shows next year for you at £1 a length. Just let me know nearer the time

[PAD]

Hi Pete,

There should be no problem fitting an ABC to your rear axle. You could make the same set up as mine with a spacer as a stop, but don't tape it tightly as I have done. That way the motor will move up and down on the axle. I did that on my 45XX as it had to drive the centre axle as I like that to have some vertical movement with a simple wire spring. I had reservations about it but others on here said it would work fine, and they were right. That mark on the cylinder cover is an oily finger print. It's amazing what you don't see in the flesh which is blatantly obvious in a picture!

 

Rob,

2mm perspex rod works out at a 3.4 inch diameter on the real thing. Were they that big?

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited December 7, 2017 by PAD

[PAD]

Hi Rob,
Ignore my question re. the 2mm rod. I've just read Nick's thread and I see you are referring to 2 x 2 mm square rod, which is drilled out.
Cheers,
Peter

Edited December 8, 2017 by PAD

[Petebe]

There's always someone out there who's smarter than the average Bear.

 

The photo doesn't do my sight glass justice, looks better in the flesh. Have removed the canopy glue while I'm doing the hot stuff. 

 

I looked at Nic Dunhill's sight glass, very good but a bit clinical for me.

 

Peter  

Thanks for the advice on the ABC. I have ordered one so we shall see.

 

Pete

[Simond]

Restraining motors on sprung or equalised axles; in a situation like this, I use two “0” rings, that are a reasonably snug fit on the motor. One goes on the motor, and rests against the torque-reaction-bar*, and the other goes over both. This allows the motor to move around a bit, and does not compromise the suspension.

 

* or whatever you want to call the bit of fret waste that you’ve fashioned to support your motor and stop it falling about.

 

Next time I have a loco “open” I’ll post a photo.

 

Pete,

 

I saw the build on WT, but have had a very interesting afternoon reading your thread on here. Thanks for your efforts in posting so much detail. Your model is superb, can’t wait to see it painted.

 

Best

Simon

[PAD]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the kind words.

 

As far as the photos are concerned, I work on the premise that the reader would prefer to see more rather than less. That's certainly what I want from a build thread.

 

Feel free to post some pics of your method in restraining the motor. It's always good to see how other builders do things.

 

Cheers,

Peter