Photos of Tyneside electric lines

[Porcy Mane]

 Love those Gresley Artics. I960/61 and 62 was the last time I had chances to see these and make a couple of trips to Whitley Bay. Trafalgar Yard near Manors;I had an EM layout based on that for a few years after I moved to 36E. I bought it from a local chap that had scratchbuilt an ES1.....brilliant. It went to North Shields and I wonder if it is still there at the Club were Roundtree Sidings (think that's its' name) layout is?

Phil

Met Cam artics methinks (on Gresley bogies)   There might be a kit launched for them by Dave Alexander at Railex NE later this month.

 

I think the Traff Yard layout is still going. It was at one of the NE & Borders EM Workshop wise events at Stamfordham a couple of years ago.

 

P

[paul2001]

Trafalgar Yard is not in the NE anymore it's in my  modeling shed under going a conversion to DCC operation and general refurbishment.

 

 

 

 

It made an appearance at Kendal Model Railway Exhibition this year and I hope to have it on the exhibition circuit again soon.

The ES1 Shunter is the Mike Edge kit, built by Tony Cropper.

[rue_d_etropal]

I have the LNER coach part 3 booklet from NER society, partly because it shows a non clerestory unit built in 1938. The booklet also has drawings for the articulated units. there are 4 diagrams, and it appears there was a motor third unit and a motor third unit with luggage, a driving trailer firs, a driving trailer third, a non driving trailer third and a non driving trailer first. Obviously it was felt that first classpassengers should not have to put up with motor vibration!

Then there is the purely luggage version.

It does make for fewer versions than either the clerestory or non clerestory NER versions. I may start with these articulated versions.

One detail that is difficult is positions of roof vents. a common problem on most official diagrams, and finding photos taken from above is difficult, and then they have to be from right angle.

[Fat Controller]

The 'Luggage' vans were sometimes referred to as 'Perambulator Vans', ISTR, because of the large numbers of baby carriages they conveyed. They also carried fish from North Shields into Newcastle, with an instruction that fish and luggage were to be kept apart, as far as possible.

[Mallard60022]

Trafalgar Yard is not in the NE anymore it's in my  modeling shed under going a conversion to DCC operation and general refurbishment.

 

ES1 a.jpg

 

ES1 b.jpg

 

ES1 c.jpg

 

It made an appearance at Kendal Model Railway Exhibition this year and I hope to have it on the exhibition circuit again soon.

The ES1 Shunter is the Mike Edge kit, built by Tony Cropper.

That is brilliant; the original builder (now in Kent) would be overjoyed to see this. I do hope you have fun with it and thanks.

Phil

[BernardTPM]

I think the LNER parcels unit I ended up at Southport. The BR built ones I think preceded the southern ones. I think some of the EPB stock are awaiting restoration. A pity that the only other unit preserved is one parcels car, I think one of the non clersestory ones.

There was just one BR Mk.1 style parcel unit, no. 68000. It was quite different to the SR units; it had two power bogies, no batteries and the doors were standard width double doors, so normal 4 foot openings instead of 5 foot on the southern units. It did go to Stockport for a short while, but didn't last that long before being scrapped.

[Porcy Mane]

 

It does make for fewer versions than either the clerestory or non clerestory NER versions. I may start with these articulated versions.

One detail that is difficult is positions of roof vents. a common problem on most official diagrams, and finding photos taken from above is difficult, and then they have to be from right angle.

 There's quite a few views of Tyneside electrics from atop the Castle Keep. Here's one:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69358-tyneside-electrics/&do=findComment&comment=978750

 

 

There was just one BR Mk.1 style parcel unit, no. 68000. It was quite different to the SR units; it had two power bogies, no batteries and the doors were standard width double doors, so normal 4 foot openings instead of 5 foot on the southern units. It did go to Stockport for a short while, but didn't last that long before being scrapped.

 

There's quite a lot of info on the forum about the MLV Just typing "E68000" in the search box should turn up plenty of references.

 

This pic gets a few mentions:

http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p150240017/h33CF46E7#h33cf46e7

 

I wonder if it's about time this and this thread were merged?

 

P

[Mallard60022]

 There's quite a few views of Tyneside electrics from atop the Castle Keep. Here's one:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69358-tyneside-electrics/&do=findComment&comment=978750

 

 

 

There's quite a lot of info on the forum about the MLV Just typing "E68000" in the search box should turn up plenty of references.

 

This pic gets a few mentions:

http://andygibbs.zenfolio.com/p150240017/h33CF46E7#h33cf46e7

 

I wonder if it's about time this and this thread were merged?

 

P

Someone (sorry, can't remember who at the mo) produces the conversion bits for that parcels van/coach.

Phil

Edited July 7, 2017 by Mallard60022

[Porcy Mane]

I think Replica do some suitable injection moulded bits but there's still a bit of work to do.

 

Edit Here's one link from a quick search for E68000:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/25482-building-e68000-tyneside-br-parcels-car/page-3&do=findComment&comment=993200

Edited July 7, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[scottiedog]

Back Track Vol. 30 No 9 September 2016, has an article on Tyneside Electric Train Working - pages 516 - 521. British Railways Memories - Tyneside Electrics : 1 by David Dunn and published by Book Law Publications has 70+ glorious photographs of the Metro-Camm stock in 50s & 60s. There is a smattering of photographs of the earlier Clerestory Roofed stock too.

 

Dave Alexander has been working on 4mm/1ft scale kits for the Metro-Camm stock for some while now and he will be at the previously mentioned show at the end of this month. I think that he has already produced a kit the parcels van, but I don't know if it is still available.

[rue_d_etropal]

That overview shot is very nice. I am sure I have seen different arrangements of vents on roof though, but that might have been because of the angle of photo.

I plan to model in HO so no existing kits available. Once I have design for HOversion, it only takes a very short time to do versions for both 4mm/ft and 3mm/ft. Ultimately N gauge versions can be done, but that takes a little bit longer, checking line by line of design. And being lightweight plastic, there is no problem with sag or under powered motors. And I have a website.

 

Only thing that delays me is that there are so many designs of EMU,DMU, railcar, steam railmotor that I want to do. I have already done the NER petrol electric railcar(as being restored at Embsay), and also have drawings for other NER units. In fact thanks to the NER society, there is a very good selection of drawings available. Just wish other railway societies would do something similar.

[david.hill64]

I think I can guess the answer (equipment life-expired) but does anyone know why the system was de-electrified?

[Mark Saunders]

I think I can guess the answer (equipment life-expired) but does anyone know why the system was de-electrified?

 

From what I understand a combination of the above and surplus DMU's from recently closed routes!

 

Mark Saunders

[rue_d_etropal]

Given that they had new trains in the 50s, they could have carried on, but I don't think the power supply could cope with the demand at the time. Also the road/oil lobby was strong, so diesel engines were seen as way to go. The LNER electric units were only 20 years old, and we know electric powered trains will last a lot longer that diesel powered ones whch basically shake themselves apart. In fact it is amazing they have only just decommisioned the final two 121 or 122 units.

 

The London Transport Q stock(1920s/30s built) lasted into the70s, as did the SR 2BlL/2HAL stock. The new Wessex EMUs were new bodies but I think used some old parts as well. The main reason the Tyneside electrics wre scraped was political, as the powrs that be were pro road, and did not want anything that could upset that policy. Now we know that diesel is not as good for us, but at least the Tyneside system was eventually rebuilt for electric light rail.

 

Does anyone know anything abput the two single car passenger units, built at same time as the LNER parcels units. Have not seen any photos, but they are in the diagrams book. They were 3rd class only, I think, so may have only been used on workers trains.

Edited July 14, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[Nearholmer]

I don't know the details of the original Tyneside electric power supply, but it was almost certainly based around rotary-converter substations, which were the standard "tech" from c1900 to c1930. They can be kept going "forever", but by the 1950s were decidedly expensive to operate and maintain, so were re-equipped by LT, BR(S) etc. The 1960s also saw the end of not-50Hz high voltage distribution, where it existed, on LT and BR(S), so if Tyneside had any of that, it would have been another thing calling for investment in the power supply system.

 

Does seem weird to buy new trains, then shut the system. To me it smells suspiciously of standardisation gone a bit mad, possibly as a result of senior management in the region not really understanding electric railways and seeing them as "odd", which was a problem that afflicted the North London Lines when they belonged to LMR.

 

Kevin

Edited July 15, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Mark Saunders]

The power supply was not in the hands of the Railway but the local Electricity Supply Company later that would become NEEB. 

 

The buildings were still standing in the mid 1970's.

 

Mark Saunders

[rue_d_etropal]

Good photos from above seem rare for the earlier clerestory and non clerestory stock. I have one drawing of 1st units showing vents, but nothing for others. Even the one I have might only be a reprsentation, as they are evenly spaced. The photos of non clerestory units suggest they alternated from side to side. For those I am tempted to leave them off. I do need to go through the drawings checking for how many actual variations there were, as some were built as replacements by LNER.

I now have Ken Hoole's book, useful for photos, and info, but the drawingss are the same working diagrams I have from NER society.

[Andrew Emery]

I think it was something to do with air raid precautions as in BR days they reverted to normal size

It was an old NER tradition originating from the 1904 stock, requiring the driver to drive standing-uo, for vigilance.

[rue_d_etropal]

It was an old NER tradition originating from the 1904 stock, requiring the driver to drive standing-uo, for vigilance.

Many railways and tramways had the driver/motorman standing up. What does seem to differ is how to keep the glass clean, so they can see through it. I noticed on some lines they had windscreen wipers , but on other lines, they had a circular window, and no windscreeen wiper. This was sometimes just a circular ridge on an otherwise clear glass panel. I presume it was found that the rain did not run down the patch inside the circle,or certainly not so badly.

[PhilJ W]

Many railways and tramways had the driver/motorman standing up. What does seem to differ is how to keep the glass clean, so they can see through it. I noticed on some lines they had windscreen wipers , but on other lines, they had a circular window, and no windscreeen wiper. This was sometimes just a circular ridge on an otherwise clear glass panel. I presume it was found that the rain did not run down the patch inside the circle,or certainly not so badly.

Sometimes the glass panel was rotated fast to throw the water off.

[rue_d_etropal]

Sometimes the glass panel was rotated fast to throw the water off.

It was only when I started looking a different stock, that I noticed the different types of front windows. Having grown up with Southern electrics, everyone had large windows, and I presume a wiper . It was the L&Y steam railmotor, with its circular panel in centre of the glass that made me notice, and start to think why. We take windscreens and windscreen wipers as the norm now, but in the early days there was obviously some differing ideas.

 

There was a lot of trouble when they originally introduced electric trains on the LBSCR as they tried to pay the new motormen/drivers a lot less than the other drivers. It all got resolved, but it was on a par to what has been happening concerning one man operation recently. I think they also had the comfort of a seat .

[rue_d_etropal]

Going back to question about roof vents, having looked through the photos, there seem to be variations. Some of the LNER built ones have a  pair above driver cab, but some don't. I had a quick look at Ken Hoole's book, but can not find any mention.I

It does look like the cab ones were only fitted later on, but there is one photo dated 1956 without them. On the 2 luggage counits, there are two rows of 6, as built, but in BR days(obvious in photo in this thread) there are extra ones above cab.

 

I have done designs for 3D printing. There are 5 different body shells for articulated and the two different ones for single coaches. That includes 2 units purely trailer, non driving position, and odd differences from the ones with driving positions. the driver motor 3rd is same body shell as driver non motor trailer 3rd. It is an odd mixture, but presume it all made sense to the operating department.

Edited July 19, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[pete_mcfarlane]

Here's some drawings and photos of the NER built EMU stock, found whilst looking for something else:

 

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1921/04/15

 

(You now have to sign up to view the PDFs of old magazines on Grace's guide). 

Edited July 21, 2017 by pete_mcfarlane

[rue_d_etropal]

Had not realised old copies of The Engineer were there. I had seen references. The NER info is not what I was after, but I spent a while searching for other info.

Where it is useful is when you come across something referring back to The Engineer. Quite often, for some reason drawings might not be printed well enough in a book, but the original can be found onlne(I did this with a LOR drawing, which confirms another drawing in MRC is actually accurate).

 

Although I will move onto to something else, I have had a quick look through drawings for the NER stock built in the 1920s. Looks like about 6 diffeent body shells(I don't tink any match the earlier clerestory), at least one LNER built one . Not too bad, and once I have the basic shape, most of it is just changing windows etc. Not as many clerestory ones either, and those do have more common features.

Edited July 21, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[xm607]

That is brilliant; the original builder (now in Kent) would be overjoyed to see this. I do hope you have fun with it and thanks.

Phil

I have just found this thread, Yes , it's good to see my old train set is still going strong and being shown at exhibitions, something I did not contemplate when it was along the garage wall and just used for some occasional shunting.

Steve.