Last orders for an etched chassis for the Hornby Peckett. P4 / EM

[davknigh]

FWIW the HighLevel kits set the cylinder angle by an etched slot in the frames and the cylinders are a complete unit. From my measurements the Hornby cylinders need to be set 2mm further apart as does the motion bracket in order to get clearance for P4. There was a workaround posted in the original Peckett thread for the cylinders that was basically just a cut and shut with 1mm spacers on either side and I have been thinking about making up a new motion bracket from fret waste. But that's all, just thinking :-(

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Gordon A]

I received two sample CSP chassis etches from Ian Young, one is Hercules and the other Henry Cort.

Lost wax cast crossheads and piston rods were included with the samples.

00, EM and P4 spacers are already included.

 

On an initial inspection I am happy with the overall design which is up to current standards. 

 

Given the work already put into this chassis kit I have decided to go down the full replacement chassis kit route on this project.

 

I have spotted a two or three missing components, the largest of which is the cylinder wrappers (Which IY had advised me of.), which will necessitate a separate photo etch tool.

 

I will check the two sets of frames to see which best matches the Hornby Peckett. I understand that may be Hercules.

 

My next move is a trip to Foxfield to take a few photos and dimensions.

 

Gordon A

[Gordon A]

I have arranged to visit Foxfield on Saturday to photograph and measure the following parts of Henry Cort their W4 Peckett.

a) Wheels

b) Slide bars and brackets.

c) Crosshead

d) Cylinders

e) Brake arrangement at the back of the chassis.

f) Steam brake cylinder

g) Bottom of the firebox.

h) Between the frames.

The cab steps are already included in the kit.

 

Can any one think of anything else that may be useful.

 

Gordon A

[davknigh]

I have arranged to visit Foxfield on Saturday to photograph and measure the following parts of Henry Cort their W4 Peckett.

a) Wheels

b) Slide bars and brackets.

c) Crosshead

d) Cylinders

e) Brake arrangement at the back of the chassis.

f) Steam brake cylinder

g) Bottom of the firebox.

h) Between the frames.

The cab steps are already included in the kit.

 

Can any one think of anything else that may be useful.

 

Gordon A

Gordon,

 

Possibly the brakes and such parts of the brake rigging that you have not already included? Also, the cylinder drain cocks which may be getting a bit fussy but they are visible at "normal viewing distances".

 

Thanks for all your efforts!

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Horsetan]

Wheel centres?

[davknigh]

Wheel centres?

Good point! If we are to use wheels other than the Hornby ones, as would seem to be the case with most gear and hornblock systems, replacement centres or overlays would be needed.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[rope runner]

I received two sample CSP chassis etches from Ian Young, one is Hercules and the other Henry Cort.

Lost wax cast crossheads and piston rods were included with the samples.

00, EM and P4 spacers are already included.

 

Gordon A

Does this mean that the full kits aren't far away? 

 

Paul A. 

[Gordon A]

I would think a few months away.

I plan to start building a test chassis after my visit to Foxfield.

That may get held up for the process of producing some additional bits that have been requested / are needed.

 

Gordon A

[Norton961]

Gordon. Re your visit to Foxfield to measure up Henry Cort, I suggested that perhaps an overlay for the very distinctive Pecket wheels thus making the AG wheels look better. This would necessitate a detailed measuring of the spokes.

 

David

[avonside1563]

I have arranged to visit Foxfield on Saturday to photograph and measure the following parts of Henry Cort their W4 Peckett.

a) Wheels

b) Slide bars and brackets.

c) Crosshead

d) Cylinders

e) Brake arrangement at the back of the chassis.

f) Steam brake cylinder

g) Bottom of the firebox.

h) Between the frames.

The cab steps are already included in the kit.

 

Can any one think of anything else that may be useful.

 

Gordon A

Unfortunately I'm not at Foxfield this weekend as I'm at Welland Rally with Bellerophon. Henry Cort is back in the museum building but nearest the door so it could be possible to pull her outside if someone is available to do so. I will see if there is anyone who can do that for you Gordon and let you know if they can.

[Gordon A]

Thanks Avonside.

 

Gordon A

[Gordon A]

Well travelled up to Foxfield today and spent some time measuring and photographing.

Most of the pictures taken by accomplice Richard Lane.

Here are a few of mine taken on my back underneath Henry Court.

Firstly the linkage to the screw hand brake on the right hand side:

This picture shows the threaded end of the hand brake  from the cab on the right hand side.

Note the forked end of the lever.

This shows the other end of the lever where it is welded to the brake cross shaft.

The lever is 19.5" long overall with the distance from the screw thread to the centre of the cross shaft being 15.5".

 

Next the steam brake cylinder which is mounted on the right hand side inside the frames.

I was advised that the brake cylinder is of the open topped variety.

The lever from the brake cross shaft that connects to the brake cylinder has an overall length of 15", with the distance from the brake cross shaft to the connection to the cylinder is 11.5"

The picture also shows the lever from the brake cross shaft to the brake pull rod on said side.

This lever is 12" overall length with centre from brake cross shaft to pull rod being 8.5". there is one for each side.

You can also see the boss / flange / bearing mounting for the brake cross shaft. There is no hole on either side through the frames.

 

A picture looking forward showing the two square brake cross rods and pull rod connections.

 

Now the picture of "Bear" a W4 Peckett at the Sittingbourne and Kemsley Light Railway from Wikipedia show the steam brake in a horizontal position under the cab on the outside of the right hand side main frame.

Does anyone have any further information on steam brakes fitted to W4 Pecketts?

If any one lives near buy I would appreciate some close up pictures / sketches and dimensions please?

 

 

The rest of my pictures from underneath were badly out of focus.

Gordon A

Edited July 29, 2017 by Gordon A

[Norton961]

Gordon, an excellent piece of work measuring up the loco and photographing everything in sight.

 

David

[Gordon A]

A further set of pictures from under the running plate of Henry Court.

Please be aware that Henry Court was a nonstandard Peckett W4.

The pictures have been taken by Richard Lane (Richard L).

 

Under the back.

The first picture is another looking at the underside of the back of the loco.

This picture shows the threaded end of the hand brake lever, the brake cross shaft and the back damper.

I measured the rear damper flap as 37.5 inches wide and 10 inches deep.

 

 

Rear Cut Outs.

This picture shows the cut out at the back of the RHS main frame.

This cut out is 31 inches long by 10 inches deep.

There is 6 inches of the bottom of the firebox followed by 4 inches of the ash pan visible in the cut out.

I think the firebox is 39 inches wide.

 

 

Cylinder Drain Cocks.

​The first picture is looking at the front bottom of the RHS cylinder showing the cross chassis link joining drain cocks on the left and right hand cylinders.

The second picture is a front three quarter view of the drain cocks on the RHS cylinder.

The operating linkage connecting the two drain cocks to the cross shaft to the cylinder on the other side.

 

The next picture shows the drivers side of HC's cab.

I believe the drain cock operating lever is the short vertical red lever sticking out of the floor adjacent the rear right hand corner of the firebox.

 

 

Slide Bars.

A selection of pictures of the RHS slide bars.

The slide bars are 3 inches wide and 44 inches long.

The top bar is 2.5 inches thick while the lower bar is 2.25 inches thick.

The distance between the two slide bars is 9.5 inches.

The gap between the slide bars and the main frame is 8 inches.

 

Unlike our models the slide bars are not bolted into the cylinders but to the casting that holds the bearing and packing for the piston rod on the back of cylinders. 

Looking at Andrew Smith's book on Peckett photos the footstep on the bottom slide bar appears on a number of locos.

Unfortunately I missed out taking any measurements.

 

I will post some more in another batch.

 

Gordon A

Edited July 31, 2017 by Gordon A

[Gordon A]

Slide Bar Brackets

​Five pictures of the slide bar bracket.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The outer edge of the bracket to the frame measured 18 inches.

The outer vertical section measured 5 inches wide.

 

Note the taper of the slide bars to the rear, which I did not at the time and so did not measure.

 

Crosshead.

 

 

 

The first picture is a deliberate repeat of a picture  in the slide bar bracket heading.

The crosshead measured 11 inches long by 10.5 inches tall by 4.5 inches wide.

If you search on the internet there is a picture of a Peckett crosshead. I have not had time to compare the dimensions.

 

Wheels

 

 

 

The wheels measured 38 inches in diameter across the tread.

28.5 inches to the inner rim.

The centre hub was16.5 inches in diameter.

The spokes 2 3/8 inches at the hub narrowing down to 1 3/4 inches at the rim. The spokes were slightly radiussed where they joined the rims.

Eleven spokes?

Counter balance weight 3.5 inches tall.

 

Cylinder.

​Finally a couple of pictures of the front end of the cylinder.

The front cylinder cover plate is 1 inch thick.

This picture also shows the Furness valve. This is for  poring oil into the cylinder when there is no pressure in the system.

The pistons in a lot of British locos have no piston rod passing through the front of the cylinder so the piston slides along the bottom of the cylinder.

This is why cylinders wear to an oval shape.

 

 

That's it folks.

 

I hope the pictures are of some interest / use.

 

I will start the test build of the chassis next week.

 

Gordon A

Edited July 31, 2017 by Gordon A

[Norton961]

Gordon, excellent progress. Really looking forward to the kit of parts.

 

David

[Gordon A]

What I forgot to mention was my thanks to Foxfield Railway for letting us in on a non public day to photograph and measure Henry Court.

 

Gordon A

[Retro_man]

Would anyone going the etched chassis route for their Peckett have a spare chassis bottom/pickups (or even the entire chassis) available for sale?

 

One of my customers broke off a pickup from theirs and the part does not appear to be available from Hornby..

 

 

Steve

 

Model Railway Imports

Canada

[Captain Kernow]

Gordon, just seen this thread. I may be able to rally one or two P4 orders from the DRAG Cute Little Industrial Locos Admirers Wing.

[DougN]

Retro man you may be able to solder a small length of phosphor bronze strip to the bit that is left. It will take a deft hand and a bit of effort but a effective repair is possible.

[Retro_man]

Retro man you may be able to solder a small length of phosphor bronze strip to the bit that is left. It will take a deft hand and a bit of effort but a effective repair is possible.

 

Thanks DougN - if it was my loco - I would have done that as I agree it would result in a perfectly good repair.

 

The loco belongs to a customer who has requested the replacement part, however I have suggested that we make the repair if we are unable to locate the part.

 

Steve

[Giles]

I'll have an EM chassis for one of these.....

[Gordon A]

Ok we have some progress.

The chassis is etched from 15thou nickel silver. On my sample a couple of jobs had to be done:

Firstly the slots have to be opened out. I used a 10A scalpel blade and eye protection!

I managed to avoid snapping any blades.

Also the 1/2 etched recesses for pressing rivets out need to be deepened using a small drill. I think I used a 0.3mm.

This information has been fed back to Ian Y. I am not sure if it is due to being reduced from a 7mm kit, under etching or......

 

Having completed the above I assembled the five spacers, three on one side two on the other.

I also cut down the sides of the front axle cut outs for later removal.

But first make sure the top is still secured to the chassis. ​Yes you guessed right.

 

Here is the two sides of the chassis with spacers loosely assembled on my Avonside jig.

 

On assembly I was not quite happy with how the two sides were mating together.

I came to the conclusion that the tabs on the spacers might be too long. Better than too short.

 

So I added some strips of cork underlay to absorb the extra length.

 

The chassis soldered together.

The only mistake I will admit to is that I cut out the middle of the front spacer.

The front and back spacers are the same. Only the back spacer needs part of the middle removing to accommodate a gear box.

 

Lunch time!

[Gordon A]

Further progress.

I omitted to mention that the etched chassis needs to be shortened by a metric smidgeon more than 0.3mm to fit the Hornby body.

 

The reason I only partially cut out the front axle mounts was so that I could set the ride height for the bolt, around which the front axle rocks.

 

 

Not the best of pictures. As I had incorrectly removed a section of the front spacer I used a piece of a spare Comet P4 spacer in which to mount a 12BA screw.

I threaded a spare 1/8 inch axle through some good fitting top hat bearings then soldered the spare spacer / screw assembly in place.

 

Next I assembled a pair of High Level horn guides and bearings for the front axle. These will not be included in the kit.

Why High Level? Well Chris G has produced a clever one piece horn guide assembly that folds up without any use of solder or glue.

(I did adjust the left hand face before fitting.)

 

 

From left to right a standard thick 1/8 inch bearing, the horn guide etch and the two components assembled.

 

 

Picture of the chassis with the front cut outs removed and the horn guide assemblies.

 

Next the coupling rods. Normally I would assemble these first.

The coupling rods consist of two main layers with two additional layers at the front end.

 

 

There should be a rectangular piece that sits in the half etched recess on the front of the rod. This piece is missing from the current chassis etch, but will be included with some spares.

I spent ten minutes searching my carpet for the half etched piece.

 

Note Henry Court has different crank pin bearings.

 

The article in the Hornby magazine (Issue 115 January 2017) has some good historical phots of W4 tanks which shows the rectangular crank pin bearings as detailed in the etch.

 

Right lunch then the second coupling rod.

 

Gordon A

 

[Gordon A]

A question for EM modellers.

 

How much clearance do you need between the inner face of the slide bars and the outer face of the mainframe?

 

I am building the test chassis to P4 standards, however I am aware that EM modellers tend to use wider wheels.

 

Gordon A