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Class 175 & 180 in 4mm rtr

Joseph_Pestell

By Joseph_Pestell,
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Class 175 & 180 in 4mm RTR  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. I would be interested in a 2-car 175, Arriva

  2. 2. I would be interested in a 2-car 175, First

  3. 3. I would be interested in a 3-car 175, Arriva

  4. 4. I would be interested in a 3-car 175, First

  5. 5. I would be interested in a 5-car 180, First Great Western

  6. 6. I would be interested in a 5-car 180, First Hull Trains

  7. 7. I would be interested in a 5-car 180, Grand Central


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Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge

Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge

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A brilliant project by the look of it! Looking forward to seeing more.

 

I guess you can gauge interest from the amount of Arriva models on the market (Bachman 150s, Hornby 142s/153s/67 with mk3s, Realtrack 143s) so there is certainly a market there for Arriva modellers. The same goes with all the other livery variants

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Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

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This for me is out of region so not really of specific interest. However, two things:

I will be watching with interest to see how things proceed.

There is every possibility that I would buy one to support your venture.

 

I won't vote as liveries are not a factor for me as it would never get used.

 

Good luck,

 

Roy

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'CHARD

'CHARD

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I guess you can gauge interest from the amount of Arriva models on the market (Bachman 150s, Hornby 142s/153s/67 with mk3s, Realtrack 143s) so there is certainly a market there for Arriva modellers. The same goes with all the other livery variants

 

Arriva Trains Wales models and modellers, being pedantic.  Arriva includes a handful of other franchises too, and there wouldn't be much logic in randomly modelling, say, Grand Central and Chiltern, notwithstanding Rule 1.

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Joseph_Pestell

Joseph_Pestell

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Poll might be misleading as it forces you to vote no till you find an entry that you want. 

 

Theres no option for the Northern 180, but I have voted for a Grand Central 180. 

 

The 175 is not in my area, so I voted no to all options there. 

I was not aware of a Northern 180. Have you got any pictures?

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'CHARD

'CHARD

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Northern had three of five units that were leased to East Coast, but not used by them- between late 2008 and early 2012.  They worked Manchester - Blackpool diagrams, principally, based at Newton Heath, although a couple of them spent a fair amount of time stored.

 

103

http://ccbrailpix.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/6/7/7367573/624798_orig.jpg

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https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3527/3887082490_03cbc99382_b.jpg

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https://photos.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-180/i-ntLqVG8/0/e12cd50e/S/180%20108%20at%20Preston%20on%2013th%20December%202010-S.jpg

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Joseph_Pestell

Joseph_Pestell

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I have edited poll to include the 5-car 180. That livery suits it well.

 

I think it likely that such a livery with restricted geographic spread and a fairly short time-frame might be a project to do as a limited edition with one of the retailers in the region.

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'CHARD

'CHARD

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I have edited poll to include the 5-car 180. That livery suits it well.

 

I think it likely that such a livery with restricted geographic spread and a fairly short time-frame might be a project to do as a limited edition with one of the retailers in the region.

 

How about in O gauge with Tower Models!  :onthequiet:

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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The Northern 180s were also used on a morning and evening diagram that took them to Hazel Grove as well as I was watching some video footage I took of them only last night arriving at Hazel Grove ecs from the siding to form a service back towards Manchester at least maybe beyond.

Paul

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159220

159220

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I have just stumbled across this thread. I would certainly welcome a FGW in 'Barbie' livery as delivered. But not 'dynamic lines'. 

 

I do though have to raise curiosity over the pricing, to me, for such a limited market of a 175/180 model...I would imaging you would be looking to recover R&D and tooling costs in the first batch as it would be unlikely there would be a market for a second profitable run. You allude to three major manufacturers, again if you do convince the likes of Bachmann or Hornby or Dapol into taking on commissioned work, you are going to add significant cost as all the over heads have to be provided, plus for Bachmann they have stated they are no longer accepting commissions as to focus on their own range. This leaves you with the Rapido route, who have recently delivered a Class 156 for RealTrack Models at RRP £200 in 2016/17 prices. I would then suggest as this project is going to take 2.5-4 years from these initial discussions to delivery. The prices stated here are looking very 'cheap' and not reflecting significant inflation, long term currency trends, manufacturing cost increases over the development period and importantly a niche market model. 

 

If we compare Hornby's new Class 800. A five car unit has a RRP of £375. This shall not be recovering all the tooling cost over the first run, but spread over several. With the potential market for the 27.5 years to which the 800 series shall run. The 180s might see another 5-7 years use, but then expect them to be scrapped. If Grand Central wants to operate on the ECML post ETCS etc they shall have to operate bi-modal 140 mph units. 

 

For the amount of orders you would need to cover all costs and add your time to, I would suggest if there was a market for the 175/180 one of the manufacturers would of brought one to market. The yearly wishlist poll never features the 175 highly, though the 180 seems to get a reasonable amount of votes. This in itself suggests a very niche market for any crowdfunded model over a run of 1000-1500 models and thus if you choose to do it (and I would happily buy a FGW Barbie 180) then I hope some more research into the costs and benefits are done before going forward. It appears from the polling here, the 175 is not popular and if I understand it right, the 175 has to be successful to allow a 180 to proceed? 

 

I would suggest if you focus on the 180, consider costings in the R&D (a 3D scan is going to cost you five figures alone), tooling, DCC operability etc. And announce all the liveries in one batch (FGW original barbie, FGW dynamic lines, Grand Central and Hull Trains - I doubt you would get more than 50 orders for a Northern rebranded FGW original barbie) then you might just achieve over 1000 orders to allow a very premium project to go ahead. Even a production run of 1000 is fantasy in my mind to be economical as the major manufacturers shall expect 6000 plus to justify a commissioned effort. 

 

I think a 2017 price for a 180 would be nearer to £450 plus, as you shall have through wiring, lighting, two motor coaches, full DCC operability, rather more complex tooling arrangements than alluded too (there is many subtle differences even to the centre car's of the 175 as opposed to the 180. All would need to be accommodated in slides). Another note, is DB are notoriously expensive for the use of their branding, royalties for the Arriva models shall add a significant cost. 

 

Even with the Grand Central 180 seemingly the most popular in the poll, I recall the Hornby Grand Central HST was a slow seller and became heavily discounted.

 

Sorry my points are not to be critical, but to raise a serious point that for me to get behind the project. I would need it to look less of a fantasy idea. With serious costs, serious understanding of the markets direction and a realistic knowledge of the number of models needed to make a product viable. 

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Joseph_Pestell

Joseph_Pestell

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. You allude to three major manufacturers, again if you do convince the likes of Bachmann or Hornby or Dapol into taking on commissioned work, you are going to add significant cost as all the over heads have to be provided,

 

 

 

 

 

You should read the original post more carefully.

 

All manufacturers have overheads. Arguably, the larger the manufacturer the more they can spread those costs.

 

But you do make some valid points. No-one believes that this sort of project is easy but the choice has been made for good reasons. While there will very probably be a larger market for Class 800 units, they also require more tooling do be done at once - so a heavier investment.

 

 

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BritishRail60062

BritishRail60062

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As I cover Irish and Welsh Modern Image model trains. I have registered an interested in both the Arriva 2 and 3 car units. As when I get round to building my layout I will need about 3 of those units. However I had the pleasure of riding a Class 180 last year from Grantham to Doncaster that was a First Hull Trains unit. So I would buy one as I would run it at club layouts and I would buy the Grand Central as I would have that one resprayed into the Irish Rail ICR colours to represent a Class 22000 as they look very similar to a Class 180.

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Joseph_Pestell

Joseph_Pestell

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As I cover Irish and Welsh Modern Image model trains. I have registered an interested in both the Arriva 2 and 3 car units. As when I get round to building my layout I will need about 3 of those units. However I had the pleasure of riding a Class 180 last year from Grantham to Doncaster that was a First Hull Trains unit. So I would buy one as I would run it at club layouts and I would buy the Grand Central as I would have that one resprayed into the Irish Rail ICR colours to represent a Class 22000 as they look very similar to a Class 180.

Anyone got a photo of those Irish units?

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pendlerail

pendlerail

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https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ie+22000&tbm=isch&imgil=HzbYUIduRJ8FlM%253A%253BnJE5T6imSVtFIM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.youtube.com%25252Fwatch%25253Fv%2525253DLIFplWW57Dw&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HzbYUIduRJ8FlM%253A%252CnJE5T6imSVtFIM%252C_&usg=__rYtoEn3Gu-OBoHgiPSYVsH7uGSo%3D&biw=1366&bih=638&ved=0ahUKEwiy4Z2ohJjVAhXMBcAKHT6XBOIQyjcIPw&ei=JLlwWbK_B8yLgAa-rpKQDg#imgrc=GhTghp7lN9pSrM:

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St. Simon

St. Simon

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 The 180s might see another 5-7 years use, but then expect them to be scrapped. If Grand Central wants to operate on the ECML post ETCS etc they shall have to operate bi-modal 140 mph units. 

 

 

Sorry to push the thread slightly off topic, but actually the 180s that GC use are to be fitted with ETCS, so there is going to be more life in them yet, so the market will be around a little longer than you think.

 

Simon

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