Jason and Gareth's Brilliant British Adventure

[rapidotrains]

EDIT: Here are the links to the five instalments:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124274-jason-and-gareths-brilliant-british-adventure/&do=findComment&comment=2788855

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124274-jason-and-gareths-brilliant-british-adventure/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2789635

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124274-jason-and-gareths-brilliant-british-adventure/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2795306

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124274-jason-and-gareths-brilliant-british-adventure/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2803630

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/124274-jason-and-gareths-brilliant-british-adventure/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2803638

 

Hi all,

 

Gareth and I will be departing for the UK next week. As is par for the course, we will be posting updates in this thread.

 

Because Gareth does not qualify for a BritRail pass, I will be driving us around the United Kingdom. Heathrow-Birmingham-Wythall-Sandtoft-Sheffield-Peterborough-Swamp-Heathrow.

 

As I am doing the driving, you should be able to smell melting/burning clutch all the way across the Midlands. 

 

I look forward to sharing our adventures with you all, and I really hope you can join us next Sunday (16 July) at the Transport Museum, Wythall. We will have model trains on display - it's not just about buses!

 

If you are a subscriber to our newsletter, we're sending one out in the next couple of days. You can sign up here: http://bit.ly/2tRHjFL

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Jason

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by rapidotrains

[mikeharvey22]

See you at Wythall. Don't start without me.

[chris p bacon]

Rather ominous that an RM is centre stage in that pic.....trying to say something ....

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Hi all,

 

I will be driving us around the United Kingdom. 

 

May the Lord have mercy on your souls.  I wouldn't try to drive around the UK if you coated me in bread crumbs and called me a fishfinger.

 

Unless I could drive one of these:

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[TheSignalEngineer]

Hi all,

 

Gareth and I will be departing for the UK next week. As is par for the course, we will be posting updates in this thread.

 

Because Gareth does not qualify for a BritRail pass, I will be driving us around the United Kingdom. Heathrow-Birmingham-Wythall-Sandtoft-Sheffield-Peterborough-Swamp-Heathrow.

 

Is that a hint for next year's scanning party?

[rapidotrains]

Is that a hint for next year's scanning party?

Actually that is my day off. I am driving a trolleybus for the day!

 

Though wouldn't it be amazing if we could have a really well-designed working trolleybus system?

 

-Jason

[Adrian Wintle]

Actually that is my day off. I am driving a trolleybus for the day!

 

Though wouldn't it be amazing if we could have a really well-designed working trolleybus system?

 

-Jason

 

We use to have them, but the TTC, in its infinite wisdom, retired them.

 

Adrian

[RJennings]

Will hopefully be at Wythall this Sunday as well all going well.

[rapidotrains]

We use to have them, but the TTC, in its infinite wisdom, retired them.

 

Adrian

 

Actually, a lot of the infrastructure was in need of replacement and it would have cost a mint.

 

As well, Orion was pushing its natural gas buses, and as Orion was at the time a crown corporation, the province went with the natural gas buses instead of upgrading the trolley system.

 

Vancouver still has an extensive trolleybus system.

 

But what I want to see is a really nice working 1:76 trolleybus system. My concern is that because the trolleybus era falls a bit before the steam-diesel transition era of British Rail, there would not be enough demand for anyone to bring out such a system. The development and tooling costs would never be recovered.

 

-Jason

[Shovelto]

Actually, a lot of the infrastructure was in need of replacement and it would have cost a mint.

 

As well, Orion was pushing its natural gas buses, and as Orion was at the time a crown corporation, the province went with the natural gas buses instead of upgrading the trolley system.

 

Vancouver still has an extensive trolleybus system.

 

But what I want to see is a really nice working 1:76 trolleybus system. My concern is that because the trolleybus era falls a bit before the steam-diesel transition era of British Rail, there would not be enough demand for anyone to bring out such a system. The development and tooling costs would never be recovered.

 

There was the old Brawa/Eheim HO system which was fun but not terribly authentic. It did, however, work quite well using 1950/60s technology.

 

-Jason

[wombatofludham]

 

But what I want to see is a really nice working 1:76 trolleybus system. My concern is that because the trolleybus era falls a bit before the steam-diesel transition era of British Rail, there would not be enough demand for anyone to bring out such a system. The development and tooling costs would never be recovered.

 

-Jason

 

Walsall kept it's trolleybuses until 1970, I used to go on them to visit my aunt and my dad took me on the last running day.  I was seven at the time.  Wolverhampton kept their trolleys until 1967, the last year of steam on the Wolverhampton Low Level route (by then proper LMS/BR types had replaced those poncy copper kettles named after posh knob's holiday homes) and the first year of proper electric traction on the High Level route.  So, in the Midlands, you can have transition era steam/diesel and superior electric traction and trolleybuses.

 

​Bradford was the last trolleybus network closing in 1972, well into the BR banger blue era. 

[srihaggis]

Hoping to get across to see this having missed the 2 scans in Shildon - will you be bringing a Dash-8 Loco sample by chance? Weren't any at York show to see. Thanks.

[pH]

Glasgow's last trolleybus ran in 1967, the same year the last Scottish Region steam was withdrawn.

[Alister_G]

I wouldn't try to drive around the UK if you coated me in bread crumbs and called me a fishfinger.

 

 

Mmmm, a breaded Gerbil Fritter...

 

 

Al.

[mikeharvey22]

 

 

But what I want to see is a really nice working 1:76 trolleybus system. My concern is that because the trolleybus era falls a bit before the steam-diesel transition era of British Rail, there would not be enough demand for anyone to bring out such a system. The development and tooling costs would never be recovered.

 

-Jason

 

 

Walford Arches and the Ridings have good working trolleybuses. Walford Arches is being restored to its original glory and is shown at certain Model Bus Federation events. Its original builder had a series of lengthy articles in Railway Modeller ( February to April 1995) featuring the moving vehicles, the ingenious trolleybus infrastructure and the various other moving gadgets like the working backhoe JCB digging a trench.

 

http://www.trolleybus.org.uk/model/RidingsVehicles.htm

[The Stationmaster]

Is that a hint for next year's scanning party?

 

Ah, Sandtoft, therefore ex-Reading trolleybuses - now there's an idea.  We've had a Reading railway engine from Hornby so a proper job Reading trolleybus would be nice to go with it  (subtle hint ) 

 

And Reading's trolleys finished in 1968 - by which time the local railway was 100% diseasal operated (alas) and at the station terminus I could look out of the office window and see trains and trolleys without even moving my head.  One trolley route passed under what was the probably the final route on which regular steam working could be seen on the Western Region (trouble was the engines were those funny LMS type things or the reworking of Mr Bulleid's brilliant ideas).

 

Like so - shame there's no train in this otherwise excellent pic -

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/6245988076

Edited July 12, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[The Johnster]

Cardiff Trolleybuses for me. please; the last ran in January of 1970 and I was aboard it!  Not only that but my first ever bus ride, home from the maternity ward, was on a Cardiff Trolleybus.  I loved them; great wooden framed 6 wheel behemoths creeping silently up on you, coming off the wires at the City Road/Newport Road junction, the busiest in the city and carrying the through traffic before the M4 was built, backing the traffic up for miles while the hapless conductress, Dot, struggled to re-pole the b@^^er with the long boat hook thing that lived in a tube underneath and could not be extracted unless a bus length was clear behind the trolley, which of course it never was, with a top deck of Saturday morning kids cheering her on.  And then repeating the trick under Queen Street railway bridge where there really wasn't enough headroom, so that the bus had to rescue itself under battery power for Dot to have another go on another busy junction.  Or the last one at night, howling along Ninian Road in Roath Park at 50mph with the frame creaking like a sailing ship going round the Horn.  Or the specially designed single decker flood proof ones that ran under Bute Road bridge which became an inlet of the Bristol Channel every time it rained a bit, and we all know how rare that is in Wales; these had the electrical stuff in the roof and could be seen ploughing through water you could have floated a battleship in with the passengers' feet up on the seats to keep dry!  Or number 201, oldest in the fleet, decorated with coloured lights with a star of the front for xmas, all flickering in unison as she passed the joints.  

 

Lovely.

[Andy W]

Yet more trolleybus systems that lasted into the transition era:

Bournemouth 1969 (mm, Bulleid Pacifics and yellow doubledeck trolleybuses with two staircases side by side - and the trolleybus turntable)

Huddersfield 1968

Maidstone 1967

Teesside (aka Middlesbrough) 1971

Derby 1967

Belfast 1968 (OK, steam/diesel transition on NIR rather than BR - but can we have a WT 2-6-4T as well please, after all both a trolleybus and a WT exist to be scanned)

 

In fact all these systems have preserved trolleybuses just waiting for a scanning party.

[No Decorum]

Yet more trolleybus systems that lasted into the transition era:

Bournemouth 1969 (mm, Bulleid Pacifics and yellow doubledeck trolleybuses with two staircases side by side - and the trolleybus turntable)

Huddersfield 1968

Maidstone 1967

Teesside (aka Middlesbrough) 1971

Derby 1967

Belfast 1968 (OK, steam/diesel transition on NIR rather than BR - but can we have a WT 2-6-4T as well please, after all both a trolleybus and a WT exist to be scanned)

 

In fact all these systems have preserved trolleybuses just waiting for a scanning party.

Never mind the buses. We have a Fowler 2-6-4T (although one with full-height cab doors would be nice) a Stanier 2-6-4T (although a three-cylinder version would be nice), an Ivatt and a Standard. The biggest gap in the line of development is the WT. Narrow gauge perfectly acceptable. Should that be narrow narrow gauge?

[Shovelto]

Yet more trolleybus systems that lasted into the transition era:

Bournemouth 1969 (mm, Bulleid Pacifics and yellow doubledeck trolleybuses with two staircases side by side - and the trolleybus turntable)

Huddersfield 1968

Maidstone 1967

Teesside (aka Middlesbrough) 1971

Derby 1967

Belfast 1968 (OK, steam/diesel transition on NIR rather than BR - but can we have a WT 2-6-4T as well please, after all both a trolleybus and a WT exist to be scanned)

 

In fact all these systems have preserved trolleybuses just waiting for a scanning party.

Known in Middlesbrough as the Trackless

[rapidotrains]

Jason & Gareth’s Brilliant British Adventure: 1
Launching the first British Rapido bus
 

By Gareth Bayer

 

Our new bus in the form of JOJ 976 and MOF 9. Both numbers will be reproduced in 1:76.2 scale.
 
We weren’t sure what to expect for our first British Bus Scan Party at the Transport Museum, Wythall. Past events at Locomotion Shildon to kick off the APT-E and Stirling Single had been very successful and there was always a little worry at the back of our mind that no-one would turn up.

Jason was the first to arrive…. on the Friday! Insisting it was for an initial survey of the site, it was actually because he now prefers the company of buses to people. Spending the day surrounded by Wythall’s eclectic collection is Jason’s idea of bliss and the excellent Transport Museum, Wythall, has become a regular stop on past trips to the UK.


 
Just a tiny selection of the other classic buses that can be found at Wythall. A great day out!
 
I made my way over on the Sunday morning after the long trek from Toronto, loaded down with samples of our models, via a quick visit to my parents in East Anglia.

Other than the British bus launch we had two big aims for our day at Wythall: 1/ to complete a 3D scan of the bus and 2/ to introduce Rapido to a new segment of the market and show people what we do. As well as being our first British bus, this would also be our first British model under our own name which upped the stakes considerably.


Rapido General Motors “New Look” to the left and the Birmingham City Transport “New Look” in the centre.
 
Our chosen bus, the Gardner-6LW powered Birmingham City Transport (BCT) Guy Arab IV with a Metro Cammell Weymann (MCW)-built body, is considered a classic by bus fans but for most of us (including me) it needs a little introduction.

 

Some 200 examples of this particular Birmingham bus were delivered between 1952-4. The design was considered quite innovative when the first iteration was launched in 1950 and many hundreds of similar buses were built by other chassis and coach builder combinations. The concealed radiators were widely adopted by other bus operators all over the UK and their modern appearance led to the nickname “New Look” after Christian Dior’s famed dress designs of the 1940s. This is not to be confused with our HO scale model of the equally classic GM “New Look” bus.


The Rapido HO scale General Motors “New Look” or “Fishbowl” bus. 

Two examples of the BCT “New Look” were on display, JOJ 976 and MOF 9.

 

Now, normally, when a manufacturer picks a new model they are looking for the perfect project that meets a number of different criteria. I’ve just decided to call these the five “L”s, for longevity, lots of liveries, lots of locations (geographical spread), a lack of other models (or the quality of existing models) and the prototype’s appearance on lots of (wish)lists.

 

Our first North American model bus, the aforementioned GM “New Look”, fits all of these criteria perfectly. They were ubiquitous in the US and Canada, they lasted for ever, existing models are terrible, and so on. The Birmingham “New Look” on the other hand doesn’t hit many of these targets. Erm, ok, the closest it gets is that it isn’t exactly popular in model form. However, we do have a cunning plan…


Jason explains how we turn 3D scan data into a model bus. It can take up to three months for a vehicle of this complexity.
 
The British bus market is amazingly well served by various manufacturers …as long as you like die-cast. Die-cast buses make wonderful collectors items but to our eyes, smaller scale die-cast often looks out of place on most model railways where they can now expect to be surrounded by modern high quality plastic injected-moulded model railway products. This is especially the case for older vehicles as it is extremely difficult to represent rivets using die-cast.

 

Rather than launch in the UK with something obvious like a Routemaster which potential customers would likely tune out amongst all the other Routemaster models, Jason’s big idea was to reveal something unexpected, that might actually be rise above the normal internet noise level. A subject that might provoke discussion. That Jason used to live in Birmingham and had fallen in love with the Brummie “New Look” was, of course, secondary.

 

That somehow over 75% of past North American Rapido products have prototypically run on the Kingston Subdivision in Southern Ontario circa 1980, the exact same route that Jason just happens to be modelling, is also, of course, entirely secondary.


Forward… to a high quality 1:76.2 scale model!
 
Back to the launch. Some effort had gone on behind the scenes at Rapido HQ in the months leading up to the event to try and and reach out to a wider audience than just railway modellers. As well as cultivating links with publications like Buses magazine we also managed to have some limited success with local media. For once we felt we had done all we could in advance.


Gareth and Terry welcome the first visitors to the event.
 
The third member of the Rapido team at Wythall was Terry Wynne. Terry has been a good friend to the company from the start and if you’re based in the UK and purchased a North American model direct from us then Terry probably posted it to you. He’s been a regular presence on our exhibition stands, which was his main job today. So while Terry was ably looking after the displays inside, Jason talked buses with visitors while I took photos and measurements.


Never happier than when talking about buses.
 
Despite Rapido’s Canadian roots we had quite the varied collection of new and recent models to show off. North America was well represented, but we were especially please that British prototypes now took up around 50% of the table space, with production models of the APT-E, ScotRail Saltire Class 156, and Revolution N TEAs. We also had new samples of the Class 92, OO TEA and N gauge KFA, all of which have arrived in the last two-five weeks.

 

Also new was a production sample of our Pennsylvania Railroad Alco FA-2 locomotive. The latter is so hot off the press that this is its first appearance outside the Rapido office.


Nick Godfrey of Central Scanning explains the day’s scanning action.
 

The scanning begins…
 

A complete survey was also made of the interior of the bus. Loving that moquette (lower deck only, workers upstairs please).
 
We hadn’t even had a chance to get all of these models out of their packaging when the first enthusiasts turned up eager to chat buses and find out more about our chosen BCT bus. This was still one hour before doors open. We considered this an encouraging sign.


JOJ 976 being moved ready for its “lift”. Many stayed to watch while others enjoyed a romp around the area in MOF 9.
 
By the time the 3D scan of JOJ 976 started at 12 noon, Wythall was buzzing with over 50 people through the door. Not bad we thought. By the time we had the bus up on jacks ready to scan the underside of the bus we reckoned between 120-150 people had passed through the gate. Kevin Hill’s sister “New Look” MOF 9 was busy all afternoon offering bus rides around the local area.


Gareth and Nick discuss the early 3D data.
 
3D scanning technology is becoming more common in the hobby in the UK, especially for older vehicles that pre-date computer aided design. Finding complete drawings of older equipment can often be impossible. Our chosen scanning company, the very nice chaps at Central Scanning of Birmingham, had already made one site visit last week to make a preliminary scan of the body. Their main task on the Sunday was to complete the job with a full scan of the underside (we’re not happy unless our models look just as good flipped on their roof in a ditch).


Scanning the underside of a vehicle is a rare luxury.
 
Scanning the underside involved lifting the bus six feet up in the air courtesy of Wythall’s recently acquired Somers column-style vehicle jacks. Unlike a railway vehicle or a car these actually lift the bus up from under the wheels – a little worrying at first but very safe. As well as the scan we took lots of pictures and video for the designer back at Rapido HQ.


The exhaust bone is connected to the silencer bone…


As much of this as possible will be on our model!
 
As well as JOJ 976 and MOF 9, Daimler CVD6-chassied Met-Camm “New Look” JOJ 707 was also on display. The similarities were obvious – as you’d expect from two contemporary buses with bodywork from the same coachbuilder – although the differences were equally striking.
 

Spot the difference! Daimler CVD6 vs Guy Arab IV, both with Met-Camm coach work.
 
Feedback from visitors was overwhelmingly positive, and we even took a decent number of pre-orders on the day. It seems that quite a few bus fans have been looking enviously at the high standard of model railway products now available and wondered why bus models had not seen a similar leap in quality. We were bombarded with ideas for new buses and we really appreciate the good wishes that people passed to us.


A bus full of happy bus fans returns from a trip on MOF 9.
 
We’d even been anxious beforehand about aggressive prodding from passionate Midland Red followers, but all the BMMO fans were super nice people who couldn’t wait for us to get on and make a D7 (a contemporary of the BCT “New Look” – also with a Met-Camm body – and apparently BMMO’s first “lightweight” double-decker).


What might be considered BMMO’s answer to the BCT “New Look”, the D7.

The last visitors left shortly after 4pm, giving us the chance to take a breather and reflect on a fun day. The weather even took a turn for the better in the afternoon following a showery start to the event. Our initial concerns were unfounded and Jason, Terry and me all reported great enthusiasm and excitement for Rapido’s latest venture into the unknown!


What do you think Jason is trying to explain in this photograph?
 
One final word for the incredibly friendly staff at the Transport Museum, Wythall. They made us feel very welcome considering we took over their site for the day and they have been super helpful in assisting us in the development of our new British bus. We can’t thank them enough. Thanks guys!

[JSpencer]

 

 Quote:

The British bus market is amazingly well served by various manufacturers …as long as you like die-cast. Die-cast buses make wonderful collectors items but to our eyes, smaller scale die-cast often looks out of place on most model railways where they can now expect to be surrounded by modern high quality plastic injected-moulded model railway products. This is especially the case for older vehicles as it is extremely difficult to represent rivets using die-cast.

End Quote

 

Nice report, I feel one could argue that model railways is even making a partial return to diecast. With many recent loco models having diecast body and running plate for extra weight for example.

Edited July 18, 2017 by JSpencer

[BernardTPM]

Our chosen scanning company, the very nice chaps at Central Scanning of Birmingham, had already made one site visit last week to make a preliminary scan of the body. Their main task on the Sunday was to complete the job with a full scan of the underside (we’re not happy unless our models look just as good flipped on their roof in a ditch).

 

Perhaps a bit like this? (Though you'll need a bigger ditch for a bus).

 

 

 

P.S. It would be nice to have the models in plastic; so much easier to hack/convert/distress, etc.

Edited July 18, 2017 by BernardTPM

[JSpencer]

Perhaps a bit like this? (Though you'll need a bigger ditch for a bus).

 

Ditch.jpg

 

 

P.S. It would be nice to have the models in plastic; so much easier to hack/convert/distress, etc.

 

Well there was an opportunity to see a double decker upside down on the A350 near Bournemouth once:

 

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/9984827.Double_decker_bus_full_of_students_overturns_on_A350/?ref=rss

 

Personally I find Rapido's method safer.

[rapidotrains]

After a very busy day on Sunday, Terry Wynne, Gareth and I decided to stop in Nottingham on the way to Epworth, Lincolnshire. As there are 12 different vegetarian restaurants in Nottingham, we were certain that finding a place for supper would be absolutely no problem at all.

 

Little did we know that vegetarians in Nottingham don't eat out on Sundays. Every single one was either shut for the day, or - bizarrely - shut just before suppertime. Who closes a restaurant at 5 p.m. or 6 p.m.? Vegetarians in Nottingham, that's who.

 

So we turned back and went to Sparkhill to the same curry place that we always go to. It was terrible. Next time, I'll go to a pub and ask for a salad.

 

Completely knackered, we arrived in Epworth at 10 p.m. to a cosy B&B called Wesley Guest House. Upon learning that I liked whisky, the proprietor - a lovely man named Lord Graham Wilson (I wasn't sure if I should bow or pray to him) - poured us about 300 ml each of the finest Scotch he had. Gareth and I were now knackered and sloshed. Terry had a coffee, the clever #$%^@.

 

Epworth is a lovely and surprisingly bustling English town:

 

 

The next morning we were off to Sandtoft, throbbing headaches and all. Sandtoft is the real reason for us coming to the UK. In fact, it's probably the real reason we are making buses. I needed an excuse to write off a trolleybus driving experience as a "business expense," and so I decided we should start a line of British buses.

 

 

If you've never been to The Sandtoft Trolleybus Museum, I can't recommend it highly enough. I discovered it soon after I became obsessed with classic British buses. One of the first books I picked up was The Colours of Yesterday's Trolleybuses, and it remains one of my favourite British bus books. I soon discovered that if you like trolleybuses, you have to visit Sandtoft. So I booked myself a treat - driving a trolleybus for the day!

 

We first got an introduction to trolleybus technology and our bus for the day - Maidstone 72, a Sunbeam W4 built in 1947. 

 

 

Soon it was my turn. This seems to be how I regularly find myself these days - bum stuck out of a bus cab.

 

 

Richard, my instructor, was very patient as I nearly toppled the bus over by going too fast around the first corner.

 

 

Gareth was not so relaxed about it.

 

 

When I was recovering from my harrowing first run, I sat in the top deck and noticed a very familiar shape on the side of the road...

 

 

I'm telling you - I fly 5000 miles to the UK to go to a museum in the middle of nowhere, only to find a Canadian New Look bus.

 

 

This is actually an Edmonton Transit trolleybus built around 1981 by Brown, Boveri and Company using a GM "New Look" bus body and chassis. It later ran in Toronto, where I rode it on the Annette 4 route. I look forward to seeing someone bash this out of our North American New Look, which has the exact same body.

 

 

There were only two other drivers on the course, so we got to drive the bus a LOT.

 

 

To be honest, I enjoyed "playing conductor" as much as I enjoyed driving. It was great fun to hang on the back as my co-driver barrelled around the curves. Also, I don't have an "inside voice" so calling out for people to "HOLD TIGHT PLEASE" comes very naturally. Unfortunately I sent one of the instructors to the hospital with a burst eardrum.

 

 

It really is a wonderful place, with trolleybuses everywhere - such as the parked Bournemouth trolleybus I'm passing in this photo:

 

 

If you want to drive a trolleybus, I advise you book as early as possible. By the time I booked back in January a lot of the dates were sold out. If you just want to visit, Sandtoft has their biggest event of the year in a couple of weeks. The annual Sandtoft Gathering is on Sunday 30 July. It's worth the trip to Lincolnshire...

 

Today we went to Rails of Sheffield.... but Chris Leigh is sitting across from me so I'd better go.

 

 

I'll tell all about the (extremely painful) visit to Rails in the next instalment. I say painful because I kept falling down the stairs.

 

Best regards,

 

Jason