Western Region Carriage Formations/Workings (into/out of London) mid-late 1980s

[Rugd1022]

Well that's inflation for you, I paid £2.50 for mine in 1982!

 

Found the Paddington photos I was looking for on a disc, a mix of colour and b&w stuff, I'll post them in batches starting with these...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chrisf]

If I recall correctly the DMU workings out of Paddington in the mid-1980s were mainly 117s?  I think the occasional bubble car worked on the Greenford loop, along with replacing driving cars as and when required on the 117s?  Were there any other types?

 

 

We may be having canned worms for dessert.  The mainstay of the Paddington dmu fleet was indeed the 117, right from their tardy introduction in 1960.  Later they were joined by some 118s but the odd 116 was never far away: in addition to their use on parcels work as so ably remembered by Brian above some were borrowed before the 117s arrived and there were other sightings, such as a pair of Bristol-allocated power cars coupled to a 122 bubble the day after the Pembroke Coast Express derailed spectacularly at Slough, causing disruption for several days afterwards.  In NSE days the oddball 116 motor brake second, 53083, saw out its days in London and AFAIK was the only 116 to carry NSE livery.  Its partner motor second had been written off after a head on collision in South Wales in 1960.  Two 117 sets were transferred to Laira in 1968, by which time the process of fitting gangways had begun.  The Greenford branch was turned over to the 122 bubbles in August 1958 [which I confess I am old enough to remember] and replaced from 1961 by the then new 121s which remained in command until the Turbos arrived.  Much, much later some considerably less native units, including at least one 104 car, were based at Old Oak Common and the set formations became more varied.

 

In addition there was spasmodic use of Cross-Country sets [119 and 120] on workings out of Paddington.  Some were borrowed from Tyseley and Cardiff Canton to cover for the late-delivered 117s and for many years there was a working for a pair of 120s between Paddington and Birmingham via Oxford.  In the winter 1961 timetable and for a few years afterwards two 119s from Bristol Marsh Junction worked into Paddington on the 8.15 am from Frome, made a return trip to Oxford after lunch and formed the 6.5 pm to Westbury.  These sets were made up to four cars by Hawksworth corridor composites wired up to work with blue square dmus.  When these finally wore out in 1967 three 101 trailers took their place and were often but randomly formed thereafter in 117 sets.  If a rake of 117s was used for a railtour or excursion it was a fair bet that at least one of the sets would have a 101 trailer.

 

That's all I can remember for now ...

 

Chris 

Edited July 12, 2017 by chrisf

[The Stationmaster]

Another gratuitous early '70s shot but showing a neglected part of the area in photographic terms, 3962 in Paddington New Yard complete with shunters truck (ex-GWR or BR built I'm not sure, over to you Mike), 3962 was renumbered 08 794 in February '74 and stayed at Old Oak for many years...

 

3962 Westbourne Park Padd New Yard early 70s.jpg

 

 

 

 

That doesn't look to me like New Yard Nidge - I'd be more inclined to say Paddington Goods (New Yard was basically between Portobello Jcn [in reality slightly east thereof] and Subway Jcn - that view is much further in than that; Lord Hills Bridge by Royal Oak station i think. 

 

The Shunters' truck could be either - interesting to see the toolbox is missin.,

[Rugd1022]

Cheers Mike, yes you're right, it's definitely further towards Padd. The concrete platform was used later on by London Cabbies and I think there was a taxi valeting service there for a while.

 

I wonder how long the shunter's truck lasted in the area..?

[robertcwp]

My interest in carriage workings really only goes up to around 1980 but I have this Paddington book from 1989.

[Fat Controller]

We may be having canned worms for dessert.  The mainstay of the Paddington dmu fleet was indeed the 117, right from their tardy introduction in 1960.  Later they were joined by some 118s but the odd 116 was never far away: in addition to their use on parcels work as so ably remembered by Brian above some were borrowed before the 117s arrived and there were other sightings, such as a pair of Bristol-allocated power cars coupled to a 122 bubble the day after the Pembroke Coast Express derailed spectacularly at Slough, causing disruption for several days afterwards.  In NSE days the oddball 116 motor brake second, 53083, saw out its days in London and AFAIK was the only 116 to carry NSE livery.  Its partner motor second had been written off after a head on collision in South Wales in 1960.  Two 117 sets were transferred to Laira in 1968, by which time the process of fitting gangways had begun.  The Greenford branch was turned over to the 122 bubbles in August 1958 [which I confess I am old enough to remember] and replaced from 1961 by the then new 121s which remained in command until the Turbos arrived.  Much, much later some considerably less native units, including at least one 104 car, were based at Old Oak Common and the set formations became more varied.

 

In addition there was spasmodic use of Cross-Country sets [119 and 120] on workings out of Paddington.  Some were borrowed from Tyseley and Cardiff Canton to cover for the late-delivered 117s and for many years there was a working for a pair of 120s between Paddington and Birmingham via Oxford.  In the winter 1961 timetable and for a few years afterwards two 119s from Bristol Marsh Junction worked into Paddington on the 8.15 am from Frome, made a return trip to Oxford after lunch and formed the 6.5 pm to Westbury.  These sets were made up to four cars by Hawksworth corridor composites wired up to work with blue square dmus.  When these finally wore out in 1967 three 101 trailers took their place and were often but randomly formed thereafter in 117 sets.  If a rake of 117s was used for a railtour or excursion it was a fair bet that at least one of the sets would have a 101 trailer.

 

That's all I can remember for now ...

 

Chris 

There were also 'Inter-City' 4-car sets (Class 123), based at Reading for Oxford and Newbury workings, IIRC

Edited July 13, 2017 by Fat Controller

[MarshLane]

There were also 'Inter-City' 4-car sets (Class 124), based at Reading for Oxford and Newbury workings, IIRC

 

 

Presumably that was in the 70s?

 

Rich

[MarshLane]

Well that's inflation for you, I paid £2.50 for mine in 1982!

 

Found the Paddington photos I was looking for on a disc, a mix of colour and b&w stuff, I'll post them in batches starting with these...

 

 

 

Thanks Nidge (sorry never saw that in your footer before Mike mentioned it!)

 

Superb detail images, takes us off in a slightly different direction, but please do post any you want to!  Its all Paddington and relevant!  And for me will be VERY useful!

 

Rich

[Fat Controller]

Presumably that was in the 70s?

 

Rich

Before that, I think; perhaps from '67 or '68 onwards.

[br2975]

(I)

Thanks for all the latest updates, amazing the amount of small details that continue to creep out!  Please do keep them coming.  When did the Class 116 Rail Air workings finish? Presume they were in the 1970s.

 

(ii)

If I recall correctly the DMU workings out of Paddington in the mid-1980s were mainly 117s?  I think the occasional bubble car worked on the Greenford loop, along with replacing driving cars as and when required on the 117s?  Were there any other types?

 

(I)

The Railair Express Parcels Cl.116 set was withdrawn circa 1971/1972, I believe after a fire.

.

There had been hopes by BR that the service would be extended

i.e.

A connecting (or additional) service from South Wales

 

In the end, all came to nought.

 

The GUVs had been through wired for Blue Square working so were transferred to the London Division where it was common to see them sandwiched between one of the seatless Cl.116 power cars and a DPU (Diesel Parcels Unit) making a three car parcels unit.

 

(ii)

The Class 117 was the mainstay of London Division suburban services.

.

As Chris F mentioned, one of the London Division Class 117 units ran for years with Cl.116 power car as W50083+W59509+W51399.

 

A few of the London Division Cl.117s were also strengthened from the very late 60s with Met-Camm trailers, to form four car units, which were popular for railtours and  summer dated excursion work to South Wales and the West Country.

 

A couple of my sightings include;

 

51335+59487+59543+51377 and 51372+59479+51414; sighted  Sunday 22/08/1971 stabled at Newton Abbott off a Paddington-Torquay excursion

 

51335+59487+59543+51377 with 51371+59478 51413 and 51394+59504+51352; sighted at Newport on 30th. August 1971, on a bank holiday weekend working to South Wales.

 

51382+59492+59543+51339;  sighted Sunday 11/07/1971 stabled at Cardiff Canton as part of a ten-car rake forming a 'Pied Piper' excursion from Paddington - Barry Island

 

How about something different - 55023+56286+55030 sighted passing Old Oak Common on Saturday 25/04/1970 ?

.

 

During the early 1970s the 3 and 4 car  'Inter City' Class 123 units were also used on commuter services between Banbury / Oxford / Didcot / Henley / Newbury etc and Paddington. ( I have partial details of their London Division workings in 1971 somewhere ).

.

Until the closure of the Minehead Branch they also had at least one summer dated working to Somerset and back.

.

Brian R

Edited July 13, 2017 by br2975

[eastwestdivide]

To the OP - are you still looking for observations of coaching stock formations? I may have some dog-eared notes from the 1986-87 period.

[MarshLane]

To the OP - are you still looking for observations of coaching stock formations? I may have some dog-eared notes from the 1986-87 period.

Hi,

Yes please. We've drifted a little from the mid-1980s timespan, but the info that has come out is all valuable and of historical reference!

 

But if you have any notes from the 84-87 period that would be great, many thanks.

 

Rich

[MarshLane]

That's all I can remember for now ...

 

Chris

 

Wow! What a memory Chris! Thanks, that's all really useful. I presume the reference to 101 trailer cars working with Class 117s would have been before the mid-1980s, while I'm assuming the 104 that was based at OC would have got out onto Thames Valley services at some point?

 

Rich

[eastwestdivide]

A few formations running to/from Paddington from my notes from 1986, some run of the mill, some unusual. Unfortunately, no records of aircon Mk2s.

 

5/3/86, an Oxford commuter train at Reading (all stns to Didcot)

47513 with 18923 18608 17033 18715 18938 13215

 

7/3/86 at Reading, a Weston-London service, "should be125" my notes say, the blue/grey generator with a normal BG at the other (London) end:

47014 with 92059 41145 41146 40419 42299 42300 42301 44040 ADB975325

Same set seen at Reading the following day with 47116

 

14/3/86 at Reading,

a Plymouth service with Mk1s (maybe a Fri-only): 50022 with 35115 5034 5030 3766 4422 7224 7919 4939 5033 5036 4847 35200

an Oxford commuter service: 50047 with 18726 18960 13488 35480 18789 18760 18970

 

and some unusual workings from that evening:

an additional Cardiff-Paddington, formed of all first class: 47440 with 17123 3280 3221 3408 3433 3279 3293 3438 3227 (of which all were blue/grey except 3227 intercity livery)

a commuter service all stns to Didcot: 31403 with 18923 18608 17033 18715 18938 13215

the generator HST set with a pair of 31s, generator van at the country end, Mk2 at the London end: 31468 + 31280 with 975325 44099 42309 42308 42307 42306 4043 41166 17075

 

26/4/86, the up sleeper departing Penzance: 50046 + 50027 with 93087 10673 10535 10554 92096 17081 6029 5850 19489 5812

 

17/5/86, HST with two TGS vehicles, with power cars and 44084 in old livery, rest in intercity livery:

43171 44084 41121 41122 40322 42345 42251 42253 44028 43016

 

21/6/86, NSE liveried MK1s noted at Oxford:

18711 18794 18935 18970 13437 13442 35193 18818 18936 18945

 

26/7/86 NSE liveried Mk1s at Reading on an Oxford service:

50035 with 18945 18936 18818 35193 13442 13437 18974 18711 18970 (same ones as above!)

Edited July 13, 2017 by eastwestdivide

[Banger Blue]

Parcels / Mail etc workings at Paddington (May 83-May 84 WTT):

 

DOWN Trains: (times are departure from PAD)

 

4A08 0032 Swansea

3B20 0520 Plymouth

4A60 1202 Reading (DPU)

3C07 1550 Swansea

4A40 1555 Reading (DPU)

3C09 1850 Swansea

3B09 1940 Bristol TM

4A42 2044 Southall (DPU)

3M15 2050 Birmingham NS

3B71 2145 Gloucester

3C10 2243 Swansea

3B10 2343 Bristol TM

 

UP Trains: (1st time - arrival at PAD, 2nd time departure from origin)

 

1026 4A23 0757 Reading (DPU)

1157 3A28 0605 Plymouth

1533 4A33 1345 Reading (DPU)

1624 4A50 1530 West Drayton

1659 3A03 1340 Bristol TM

1956 4A39 1823 Reading (DPU)

2109 4A51 2031 Reading

2231 3A38 1935 Worcester SH

2253 3A06 1845 Swansea

2315 3A08 2035 Bristol TM

Edited July 13, 2017 by Banger Blue

[eastwestdivide]

A few more observed formations from 1984/85.

 

13/7/84, 1035 Paddington-West Country train, which I caught as far as Westbury: 50034 with 9466 5717 5906 6113 6617 13538 13477 3400 SC9437

13/7/84 at Westbury, an up train: 50006 with 9477 3227 3274 13605 6618 5798 5782 SC5831 9464 5448 E5268 17113 (it's possible the E-prefix was 17113 due to the way I scribbled my notes down)

13/7/84 at Westbury, a down HST with front power car dead: 43124 44033 42273 42272 42271 40327 41132 41131 43127

13/7/84 at Westbury, an up HST: 43132 41139 41140 40331 42287 42288 42289 44037 43150

and went home on the FO Plymouth-Paddington service, scheduled to be a 33, as mentioned in that other thread: 33017 with 34535 7119 18563 24892 E4236

 

Old Oak Common 29/5/84, Oxford/Newbury(?) commuter rakes coming ECS off the carriage sidings:

50033 with 18610 24127 13299 18889 35326 5039 3771 18919

50016 with 3833 18589 18727 7650 13410 17085 18789 19022 4821

50040 with 4954 4980 4964 35465 7184 16114 4928 4858 18808

50021 with 5041 18947 18593 13443 35193 18939 18671 18931 E18300 7209

Old Oak Common 29/5/84, postal coming out of the sidings ECS:

47294 with 93562 93592 80436 80453 80389 80384 80385 80452 80820 80610 94009 80613

 

28/8/84 Westbury, the generator car 975325 with HST trailers (unnoted), headed by 50016.

28/8/84 Westbury, an extra to Paddington: 47246 with 5237 5255 13594 17070 5886 5252 13499 5869 (those air-cons must have been stuffy, as it was non-ETH loco)

 

11/1/85 Reading, HST not far from its original 253001 formation: 

43002 Top of the Pops 41003 41004 40435 42003 42004 42005 44001 43170

[MarshLane]

EastWestDivide - Those are great, many thanks for taking the time and trouble to write them up, fascinating to se that the GenSet was out one day with a pair of 31s!  Do you have any record as to whether that was ECS or in service?

 

Rich

[eastwestdivide]

EastWestDivide - Those are great, many thanks for taking the time and trouble to write them up, fascinating to se that the GenSet was out one day with a pair of 31s!  Do you have any record as to whether that was ECS or in service?

 

Rich

Sorry, no idea. It was a Friday evening, and there were additional trains running, as noted, so maybe they were short of motive power?

[Banger Blue]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391839522183

 

BR (WR) London Paddington Station working book for 1982/83. Looks to be some interesting info in it but not for £30!

[bigP]

--

Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[ess1uk]

Interesting read.

[MarshLane]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391839522183

 

BR (WR) London Paddington Station working book for 1982/83. Looks to be some interesting info in it but not for £30!

 

Wow - talk about going up in value!!!

 

 

Morning Rich,

 

Hopefully some on the the following might be useful to you, sorry if it's not, as it'll just be a massive warbling!

 

I've long harboured a desire to model Paddington in N, based c.1990 and have done a fair bit of research based upon the time frame '88-'91, greatly aided by the Padd WTT Robert linked to earlier. 

Appreciate my timeframe is slightly past yours, but maybe this will be helpful, but here are a load of LH formation that I have found, or at leat the 'on paper' formation that was diagrammed.  As always photo records show us anything could, did, and usually would turn up.

 

Regards,

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

Thats all really useful - many thanks for that, and for taking the time to type it up.  Fascinating how there is so much info about, once people are working together on a topic!

 

Interesting read.

 

 

Glad your finding it interesting.  

 

Thanks, as ever, to all those who have contributed. Much appreciate - so much food for thought here! Im trying to pull it all together and compile the thoughts!

 

Rich

[Shed]

Great thread.

[Crepello57]

Fascinating thead! Going back to the original question and I don't think anyone's mentioned this here, but all passenger train formations are available for free online from the Yahoo group called BRCS. You simply have to join up. I think they've the lot for the WR for the 1980's. The documents are called 'Passenger Train Marshalling' and 'Circuit Working of Carriage Sets'. Other BR documents to look out for (sadly not available on the BRCS website) include 'Paddington Station Working' which shows train formations (including parcels) and the platforms used. And there's the extremely rare 'Marshalling Instructions' which showed all parcels train formations on the WR. I'm not sure if that last one was still created in the 1980's though. 

 

The thing I've never found in spite of years of searching is the loco circuit workings (turns) for my period of interest (around 1973). Maybe the've gone forever?

[MarshLane]

Fascinating thead! Going back to the original question and I don't think anyone's mentioned this here, but all passenger train formations are available for free online from the Yahoo group called BRCS. You simply have to join up. I think they've the lot for the WR for the 1980's. The documents are called 'Passenger Train Marshalling' and 'Circuit Working of Carriage Sets'. Other BR documents to look out for (sadly not available on the BRCS website) include 'Paddington Station Working' which shows train formations (including parcels) and the platforms used. And there's the extremely rare 'Marshalling Instructions' which showed all parcels train formations on the WR. I'm not sure if that last one was still created in the 1980's though. 

 

The thing I've never found in spite of years of searching is the loco circuit workings (turns) for my period of interest (around 1973). Maybe the've gone forever?

 

 

Hi,

Didn't know about that Yahoo Group, so many thanks - I'll take a look!

 

Rich