aardvark Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Hey all: Novice question: I have some 4mm Parkside Dundas wagon kits. plus LMS whitemetal buffers to suit. I've read the LMS instructions, which are clear enough, but am left wondering the following question: at what stage of the kit assembly should I add the buffers? Answers which suggest themselves are: attach the buffers to the unassembled wagon ends; assemble the sides and floor of the wagon, but attach the buffers before adding the undercarriage; or completely assemble the wagon, then add the buffers last. It probably doesn't make too much difference, but I would appreciate the collective wisdom of RMWeb before starting. cheers Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Dean, I think you're right that it doesn't matter a whole lot. I usually leave to the end, they're a little exposed and the kit gets a lot of handling during the build. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2017 I agree with John, I tend to leave off the buffers, coupling hook and brake levers to the end, having sausage fingers is my excuse. Make sure you drill the holes to 2mm whilst the bufferbeam is in the flat though. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Zero Gravitas Posted July 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2017 I agree with John, I tend to leave off the buffers, coupling hook and brake levers to the end, having sausage fingers is my excuse. Make sure you drill the holes to 2mm whilst the bufferbeam is in the flat though. Mike. Absolutely agree with this - but don't just drill the holes, fettle and dry fit the buffers (making sure they are flat on the headstock, the tail doesn't stick out the back of the headstock, etc), and then put them aside to be stuck on last. The general principle being to do as much preparatory work as possible when it is easiest to do - mostly before assembly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 and its easier to paint the buffer beam without buffers attached. Jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Many thanks to all who took the trouble to reply. I have my answer, which is to fit the buffers prior to assembly, but not to glue them in place until the very end. I find it interesting that when I ask one of my novice questions, it seems I'm not really sure what I'm asking. In this case, I wouldn't have thought that fitting the buffers and gluing them in place would be separable activities. It does seem obvious. Makes me all the more glad that I asked, and even more grateful that folks replied! cheers Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Zero Gravitas Posted July 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2017 You're welcome, and please don't think that we knew this sort of stuff when we started - generally we (or more specifically I) learnt the hard way when the buffers or some other small detail got knocked off as we tried to do something else. Almost literally the school of hard knocks. And always remember there are no stupid questions - learning by asking is a good technique, and if it saves learning by hard and bitter experience then that's a bonus :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 ... there are no stupid questions - learning by asking is a good technique ... I am so glad to hear you say that. I rolled up my sleeves to have a go, and didn't get very far at all before falling flat on my face. The next question is exactly how to you go about this process? I figure it might be best to drill down through the plastic buffer into the buffer beam in order to leave a pilot hole that can be drilled out to 2mm once the remains of the plastic buffer has been sliced off with a scalpel. Is there another way? I tried drilling the pilot hole in a careful, controlled manner using a new 1mm bit in a pin vice, but am making remarkable minimal progress. A hand drill seems less controllable/accurate (especially in my hands), while a power drill seems overkill. Perhaps I need to invest in a Dremel, and/or a drill press? The back of the buffer beam is not a detailed surface, so I'm presuming that it would be ok to drill all the way through. Similarly, removing the plastic buffer does not look trivial, assuming I should remove the plastic buffer base (flange?) down flush to the buffer beam without damaging the buffer beam or nearby detail. cheers Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 If the drill bits are sharp, it really shouldn't be an issue to drill thru the plastic. Gentle pressure is the key, some lubricate the bit wit spit but I've never found this necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Zero Gravitas Posted July 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2017 I am so glad to hear you say that. I rolled up my sleeves to have a go, and didn't get very far at all before falling flat on my face. The next question is exactly how to you go about this process? I figure it might be best to drill down through the plastic buffer into the buffer beam in order to leave a pilot hole that can be drilled out to 2mm once the remains of the plastic buffer has been sliced off with a scalpel. Is there another way? I tried drilling the pilot hole in a careful, controlled manner using a new 1mm bit in a pin vice, but am making remarkable minimal progress. A hand drill seems less controllable/accurate (especially in my hands), while a power drill seems overkill. Perhaps I need to invest in a Dremel, and/or a drill press? The back of the buffer beam is not a detailed surface, so I'm presuming that it would be ok to drill all the way through. Similarly, removing the plastic buffer does not look trivial, assuming I should remove the plastic buffer base (flange?) down flush to the buffer beam without damaging the buffer beam or nearby detail. cheers Dean Pilot hole down through the buffer and buffer beam, then slice off the buffer (I take off the bulk worth Xuron cutters and then scalpel/file the rest), then drill out to 2mm is exactly the way I do it. Use a drill that is the sam diameter as the hole in the buffer housing to get the hole centred, then depending on the buffer shank diameter, use a smaller drill for the pilot hole. For starters, don't try and cut too much at once, e.g. Drill 1mm, then 1.5mm, then 2mm. You really don't need a power drill for styrene, drill in a pin vice is fine, and don't be too tentative - you want to feel the drill bit "bite" into the styrene. And you're drilling inside the buffer housing, so not much can go wrong. And do go right through the buffer beam. Daft as it sounds, a blind hole can be a problem as you can get air trapped behind the buffer as you glue it in, and the buffer will never sit right as the air pressure increase as you push the buffer in can stop it. Hope that helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Hi All, As Z.G. and Black Rat says above - when using the pin vice in styrene, it's more about the twisting that the downward pressure - if you push too hard it will grab and tear at the styrene. A nice sharp set of drills and a slowly slowly approach is what's needed! Going up through the sizes as required... Dean - keep asking as many questions as you want - it's what RMWEB is for! All the best, Castle Edited July 11, 2017 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) The Lanarkshire Models buffers I've tried have spigots wider than 2.0mm. One set were a push fit into a 2.1mm hole and another set needed their 2.1mm hole opened out with a rat-tail file. 2.1mm drill bits of adequate quality can be had cheaply on eBay. Fitting with the end flat on the bench but fixing at after body assembly is good. If you happen to be fitting the internally-sprung kind of buffer, it's pretty much essential. I always paint these off the wagon (remembering to spray them at the same time as the wagon where appropriate), then assemble them, then fit to the wagon after all the nastiness with transfers and spray varnish is done. Edited July 11, 2017 by Guy Rixon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) As I have pontificated elsewhere on RMWeb, I drill the bufferbeam hole 2.1mm, as you won;t get a 2mm shank in a 2mm hole, and that's before oversized shanks come in to the equation. Also, put the buffer in a pin vice and rub in a circular motion on a flexible sponge backed file to get rid of the mould line, much easier than trying to do it once fitted to the wagon. Mike. Edited July 11, 2017 by Enterprisingwestern Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Hi All, As Z.G. and Black Rat says above - when using the pin vice in styrene, it's more about the twisting that the downward pressure - if you push too hard it will grab and tear at the styrene. A nice sharp set of drills and a slowly slowly approach is what's needed! Going up through the sizes as required... Perfect! A new drill bit from the local hardware store was all that was needed. The previous bit was new, and was bought in a set of bits ranging between 0.3 and 1.6mm from China via eBay. The set was claimed to be "HSS Twist Drills", but I am suspecting that "HSS" might be the name of the company that makes them - either that or the noise emitted by their customers when talking about their products. Enough said. The local hardware store has drills in 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0mm (and greater), all of which I now have, but is of no help for 2.1mm. The internet beckons ... Edited July 12, 2017 by aardvark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Zero Gravitas Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Perfect! A new drill bit from the local hardware store was all that was needed. The previous bit was new, and was bought in a set of bits ranging between 0.3 and 1.6mm from China via eBay. The set was claimed to be "HSS Twist Drills", but I am suspecting that "HSS" might be the name of the company that makes them - either that or the noise emitted by their customers when talking about their products. Enough said. The local hardware store has drills in 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0mm (and greater), all of which I now have, but is of no help for 2.1mm. The internet beckons ... Rather than get all the intermediate sizes of drill, a set of cutting broaches will allow you to get the holes just right for a snug fit. If you're working with styrene, then there's no need to get an expensive set, and they will last for ever. I'm still using the ones I bought in the early nineties... Search for "cutting broach" on Amazon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Perfect! A new drill bit from the local hardware store was all that was needed. The previous bit was new, and was bought in a set of bits ranging between 0.3 and 1.6mm from China via eBay. The set was claimed to be "HSS Twist Drills", but I am suspecting that "HSS" might be the name of the company that makes them - either that or the noise emitted by their customers when talking about their products. Enough said. The local hardware store has drills in 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0mm (and greater), all of which I now have, but is of no help for 2.1mm. The internet beckons ... For "oddball" drill sizes your local engineering suppliers is a safer bet. Try the likes of Cromwell tools. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 So what if Lanarkshire Models stocked a small range of drill bits of good quality and reasonable price eg. £1.50-£2.00, yes I can get them but would you buy them? Dave Franks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 So what if Lanarkshire Models stocked a small range of drill bits of good quality and reasonable price eg. £1.50-£2.00, yes I can get them but would you buy them? Ooh! What a good idea. You could also sell canisters to keep all your dedicated buffer drills and tools in one place. You could call it a "Stuffer for Tougher Drills for use on Puffers Buffers". STD for short? Here's one I made earlier. P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2017 Perfect! A new drill bit from the local hardware store was all that was needed. The previous bit was new, and was bought in a set of bits ranging between 0.3 and 1.6mm from China via eBay. The set was claimed to be "HSS Twist Drills", but I am suspecting that "HSS" might be the name of the company that makes them - either that or the noise emitted by their customers when talking about their products. Enough said. The local hardware store has drills in 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0mm (and greater), all of which I now have, but is of no help for 2.1mm. The internet beckons ... Try your 2mm drill first before spending time tracking down other drills. I have never had any problems getting the LMS buffers into a hole drilled with a 2mm drill, with at least a dozen kits and counting so far. Note I didn't say a 2mm hole, drilling plastic is never going to be that accurate to produce an interference fit with the nominal 2mm buffer shanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I got my 2.1mm drill-bits from UK Drills via eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-2-1MM-HSS-DRILL-BITS-QUALITY-JOBBER-DRILLS-2-1-MM-/250851551455 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micked Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Pilot hole down through the buffer and buffer beam, then slice off the buffer... Yes, that's what I do to keep the original buffer placement - seems to work. Here's one I started this afternoon. Mick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 ... the tail doesn't stick out the back of the headstock ... Any suggestions as to what I should use to cut the buffer spigot? Side-cutters? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Hi Aardvark, I usually snip off as much as possible with the afore mentioned side cutters and then trim back the rest with a scalpel and files to dress it flat. I hope this helps! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micked Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hi Aardvark, How about starting off with the Parkside BR 12 Ton Van-Plank Sides (Diag. 1/208), which has a couple of extra ends included to cater for different prototype buffer types. It would give you a chance to practice removing buffers on the spare ends first. Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Hi Aardvark, How about starting off with the Parkside BR 12 Ton Van-Plank Sides (Diag. 1/208), which has a couple of extra ends included to cater for different prototype buffer types. It would give you a chance to practice removing buffers on the spare ends first. Mick Indeed. More by good fortune than good planning,.my first effort is a PC69 1923 7 plank 12 ton coal wagon, which also has alternate ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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