Parkside wagons + LMS buffers

[aardvark]

By way of thanks to all who responded to my questions, here's a slightly out-of-focus pic of my first effort, which I am pretty chuffed with.

 

 

I've yet to address the buffer's themselves.  That will come after I have another practice with the second alternate wagon end.

[Castle]

Well done Aardvark!

 

I can see the beginnings of a wagon kit addiction here... Keep up the good work.

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[cctransuk]

drill.jpg

 

 

 

Yes, that's what I do to keep the original buffer placement - seems to work. Here's one I started this afternoon.

 

Mick

 

It saves a lot of hand-drilling if you crop off the majority of the buffer first, leaving just the base.

 

Mark the centre of the base and drill 2.0 or 2.1mm. before trimming off the base from the bufferbeam.

 

If you drill down the length of the buffer there is a real danger of having wandered off-centre by the time that you reach the bufferbeam.

 

This method has worked well on the 350+ wagons that I've built to date.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[aardvark]

It saves a lot of hand-drilling if you crop off the majority of the buffer first, leaving just the base.

 

Mark the centre of the base and drill 2.0 or 2.1mm. before trimming off the base from the bufferbeam.

 

If you drill down the length of the buffer there is a real danger of having wandered off-centre by the time that you reach the bufferbeam.

 

This method has worked well on the 350+ wagons that I've built to date.

 

Thanks John.  Your comments match my limited experience: one of the holes did wander off-line and required remedial action.  Fortunately, the base of the buffers is sufficient to hide the resulting elliptical hole, and I should imagine that the subsequent coat of paint will further help.

 

How do you go about measuring and marking the centre?

 

cheers

Dean

[cctransuk]

Thanks John.  Your comments match my limited experience: one of the holes did wander off-line and required remedial action.  Fortunately, the base of the buffers is sufficient to hide the resulting elliptical hole, and I should imagine that the subsequent coat of paint will further help.

 

How do you go about measuring and marking the centre?

 

cheers

Dean

 

You don't really need to measure - the centre of the rectangular base is easy to mark by eye.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[aardvark]

I've managed to assemble the body of the 7-plank wagon with a modicum of success, but find myself in need of further RMWisdom.

 

I'm about to assemble the solebars to the wagon body.  I've already attached the W-irons, although in hindsight I'm not sure whether I should have - "Too late!", she cried.

 

There is a trough for the solebars, which is around 3mm wide, while the solebars are around 1.6mm thick, so there is some slop.

 

 

I might have expect that the solebars would have either gone to the insides of the trough, hard against the structural detail on the bottom of the body, or hard against the inside of the side, but neither seems to be the case.  Either of these positions would require the W-irons to lean at a jaunty angle, which can't be right, so the I am therefore led to believe that the solebars must go somewhere in the middle of the trough, in which case, I ask how to position the solebars so that they can be glued into position.

 

 

I've given this some independent thought, and the best approach I can think of is:

1. temporarily assemble both solebars plus wheels/axles into position with blue-tac (as above);
2. make sure everything is aligned;
3. apply a little glue;
4. (attempt to) remove the blue-tac
5. complete the gluing.

 

cheers!

Dean

[garethashenden]

Your method is pretty good. The only thing I'd add is that I find Brassmaster's Axle Alignment jigs to be invaluable when building wagons. They hold the axles parallel and at the correct spacing, which is one fewer thing to worry about. http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/axle_gauges.htm

[Enterprisingwestern]

You need to drill the brass bearing holes deeper in the axleguard/w iron, then you can set the solebars at their correct distance apart, which, IIRC is somewhere round about 6 foot inside face to inside face, depending on the the thickness of the solebar moulding.

 

Mike.

[57xx]

They should fit to the inside, so as Mike says you need to set the bearings deeper. If you get as far in as you can with them and the solebars still won't sit right in (I've had this on a few kits) then you can use some microstrip on the back of them to space them out whilst keeping them parallel. Add thin strips layers at a time until they sit right.

 

Edit:See top pic here for one example.

Edited August 4, 2017 by 57xx

[micked]

You need to drill the brass bearing holes deeper in the axleguard/w iron, then you can set the solebars at their correct distance apart...

 

Mike.

 

 

Would I be right in thinking that plain, rather than Parkside's supplied shouldered, bearings are best in this case?

 

Great thread, with really useful advice here -- I'm really enjoying reading everyone's input.

 

Mick

[Enterprisingwestern]

Would I be right in thinking that plain, rather than Parkside's supplied shouldered, bearings are best in this case?

 

Great thread, with really useful advice here -- I'm really enjoying reading everyone's input.

 

Mick

 

Plain are easier inasmuch as you only have to drill the bearing hole, but you need to be pretty accurate with the depth as the bearings are little rascals to get back out if drilled too shallow or deep.

Shouldered ones are more "controllable", and you don't need to be as accurate as above with the 2mm hole as long as you don't drill through the end of the axlebox, your depth control is by using a larger diameter drill bit, (slightly larger than the top hat), as a kind of countersink bit, a little can be shaved off at a time to give the correct recess.

A bit horses for courses really, have a dabble and see which method suits you the best.

 

Mike.

[aardvark]

You need to drill the brass bearing holes deeper in the axleguard/w iron, then you can set the solebars at their correct distance apart, which, IIRC is somewhere round about 6 foot inside face to inside face, depending on the the thickness of the solebar moulding.

 

Mike.

 

Thanks Mike, that does make sense.  Silly of me to have missed this unwritten step in the instructions.  Sadly, my bearings are glued in as per the written instruction, which indicate to use a drop of glue as a lubricant to allow the bearings to go fully home,  I suspect it is all a bit late for this particular wagon.

 

Looks like 57xx's microstrip idea will be plan B.

 

Edited:

 

Can someone instruct me on the exact process?  It seems that the bearings are a tight fit (hence the need for "lubricant"), and that I would need to install the bearings and assemble everything in order to find that I need to deepen the bearing holes, in which case, how do you get the bearings out?  (Please keep in mind that I'm a rank beginner, as this is my first attempt at putting a kit together.)

 

cheers

Dean

Edited August 5, 2017 by aardvark

[Castle]

Hi Dean,

 

I always give the holes a light drilling with a 2mm drill to ensure that the bearing goes all the way home first. Then, if it needs tweaking, you can carefully get a sharp blade between the sole bar / W iron / axle box moulding and the brass shoulder and ease it out a bit. You can then use some thin superglue which I apply with a piece of thin wire and that should 'wick' around the bearing and fix the bearing in place weather it is pushed all the way in or slightly pulled out.

 

Not the only way of doing it but this is my way of doing it!

 

I hope this helps!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

PS: The other thing is to file off the nib that is sometimes left when the bearing is machined. This will prevent the bearing going all the way home too! Sorry if this is an obvious thing to say...

Edited August 5, 2017 by Castle

[aardvark]

The other thing is to file off the nib that is sometimes left when the bearing is machined. This will prevent the bearing going all the way home too! Sorry if this is an obvious thing to say...

 

Not at all obvious - I saw the nibs and presumed that they were there by design .

 

Nothing like a learning experience, is there?

[57xx]

Like Castle, I use a 2mm drill to open up the axleboxes and deepen the hole where necessary. Doing this makes it easy to drop the bearings in and out to check solebar clearances before you fix them in place. Sometimes the bearing still have enough of a friction fit that I don't need/use glue, others that are looser, I've found a small drop of poly cement is enough to hold them in place. You can of course use whichever glue you find best suits your methods as you develop your skills.

 

I also file off the pip and in some cases where there is not enough room to make the holes any deeper without damaging the outside of the axleboxes, I file the bearings down ever further (think the most I've gone down to 2.5mm in height).

[aardvark]

Another noob question that I have just thought to ask: when finally gluing the solebar+W-irons assemblies in place, do I do so with or without the wheels/axles?  It suddenly occurs to be that the conical shape of the bearings and axle ends would cause the weight of the wheels to apply an outward pressure on the W-irons, thereby possible causing them to bow outwards.

 

Of course, I'm assuming that the assembly should happen with the wagon body inverted, and the W-irons in a vertical position, as per my earlier photos.  Alternately, perhaps, I should attach one solebar/W-irons, before laying the wagon on it's side and adding the wheels (axles now vertical) and other solebar/W-iron.

 

Furthermore, while I think I understand the concept of the axle alignment jig, I'm not entirely sure how to use it.  The only "give" I see to ensure that the axles are parallel is the positioning of the W-irons on the solebar.  I guess I can't see how to juggle the jig, two axles, two solebars and four W-irons into position.  And, of course, the jig would only be useful if it was folded accurately.

 

After the SNAFU of the bearings, I am beginning to see all the assumptions that I have been making.  It's all a bit sobering, really.  Whilst I didn't really expect my first outing with a plastic kit (since assembling Airfix model aircraft when I was 12) to be totally perfect, I wasn't expecting it to be quite this intricate.

 

Does anyone know if BRM has ever done one of their Practical BRM articles on assembling a Parkside steam-age kit?  At this stage, I would be happy to purchase a back issue to access this one article.

[57xx]

I put the solebars on with the wagon inverted as you say. I will put them together with the wheels in place, usually gluing one solebar in place first, let the glue go off and then add the second solebar and wheels. I'll hold the axleboxes together with my fingers to ensure that there isn't any slop on the axles. One the glue has gone off you can let go and leave to dry fully. There's usually a little bit of springing out so the axles aren't tight in the bearings afterwards.

 

When used on a kit such as this with combine solebar and W irons, the jigs are only really any good for keep the axles parallel (assuming you have any end float in the solebars to align them). They really come into their own when used with individual W iron units such as the MJT ones, whereby they will allow you to affix the solebars at the correct wheelbase spacing and also keep them parallel. The Brassmasters jig I have is pretty foolproof for folding accurately.

[FourSUB]

When assembling items like solebars that need to be vertical I use a few spots of thin cyano(ZAP thin CA) to hold them. Hold the solebar in place, apply drop of ca to a couple of locations on the back with a pin, it will wick into the joint and hold a few seconds til set. Once happy with the position the joint can be flooded with liquid cement. One benefit of using ca is the joint can be easily broken if not positioned correctly. I'll be practicing later on a batch of Parkside 13T steel highs.

 

Be very careful when drilling out axleboxes for bearings not to go right through, been there, done that!

 

Graham

[aardvark]

For anyone else that might be along for the ride, I found this pic on the LNER forum, here: https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=937&start=1950#p122192

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

It's a lot easier when assembling the solebars to the chassis, especially when using the brassmasters jig, to use axles only, no wheels.

 

Mike.

[aardvark]

It's a lot easier when assembling the solebars to the chassis, especially when using the brassmasters jig, to use axles only, no wheels.

 

Mike.

 

Thanks Mike - I can well see how that would be the case.  Any suggestions where I can buy axles - the wheels I have I think are Romfords, and came in the Parkside kits.

 

cheers!

Dean

[Enterprisingwestern]

Thanks Mike - I can well see how that would be the case.  Any suggestions where I can buy axles - the wheels I have I think are Romfords, and came in the Parkside kits.

 

cheers!

Dean

Just pull the wheels off a pair, you've then got a spare pair of wheels if necessary.

 

Mike.

[aardvark]

Just pull the wheels off a pair, you've then got a spare pair of wheels if necessary.

 

Mike.

 

Thanks Mike: that's certainly an answer that I wasn't expecting: shows how little I understood the question I was asking   !!

[davefrk]

Hi Dean, I've been following the thread and reading what people have said regarding our buffers, mostly correct. All our buffers have a 2mm tail apart from B020 which has a 1.6mm tail this was to differentiate it from the very similar B006. The tail can vary slightly in diameter due to the moulding process, casting metal isn't an exact science.

Many people don't bother but I like to rub the buffer face with an emery board and then polish with a 3m pad in a circular motion ( a fine abrasive pad like a scouring pad).

 

Assembling Parkside wagon frames, yes I do it just like the picture above but with 26 mm axles, it ensures that the wheelsets will be a good fit and not rattle about and cause mystery derailments. When you next order buffers just say you're needing some axles and I'll pop a few in the order.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks.

Edited August 8, 2017 by davefrk

[Poggy1165]

I would humbly suggest that it is far better for the hole to be too small for the buffer than too large. The former can be cautiously rectified with a broach, or even a rat-tailed file if you are stuck. The latter means a bodge. And yes, I have been there, done that and got the teeshirt.