Electric Railway Museum, Coventry, to close.

[Wolf27]

*COVENTRY ELECTRIC RAILWAY MUSEUM SITE TO CLOSE*

 

The Trustees & Volunteers have met today to discuss the future of the ERM site in the light of a recent meeting with Roxhill who are going to develop the land for commercial purposes.

 

We have reluctantly decided that we will close the Electric Railway Museum at its present location after the open day on OCTOBER 8th 2017.

 

We will be actively working with the railway heritage sector to ensure that vehicles and locomotives currently on the site are not endangered with a view in the longer term to establish a new site for the ERM.

 

We would like to thank you for your support over the past ten years and continuing support in the future as we work to relocate the collection.

 

If you can offer the ERM any help with this transition then please contact us.

 

Our remaining open days for 2017 will go ahead as planned on the following dates:

 

Sunday August 13th

Saturday & Sunday September 9th & 10th

Sunday October 8th

[Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge]

I have been in contact with the ERM in hope of purchasing stock and storing it, with the eventual goal of "loaning" it back to the ERM once you find a new site. If anyone is able to help out with where I can find some cheap safe storage I would be grateful.

[rue_d_etropal]

it is sad, but whenI found photos onlne of the site,I was concerned as most is in the open. Finding cheap secure accomodation is always going to be difficult. Security cost money. It would make sense to see if some items could bemoved to sites relevant to the vehicle. Items such as the Liverpool Overhead Railway modified centre car could come back up to the north west, as could the other ex Merseyside EMU.

Ultimately I think it is important that there is a museum dedicated to electric railways. Far too much attention, and money seems to be thrown at worn out old steam locos.Not that they don't need preserving, but whole chunks of electric railway history have literally been chucked in the bin. Electric railways have been around for over 100 years, and were way ahead of their time, and they are also the future.

 

Given that the main areas to introduce electric railways at the start of the 20th century were London, Liverpool/Manchester and Tyneside, it does seem odd that the museum was started up in the West Midlands where as far as I remember there were no electric railways will BR electrified the mainline. The area is possibly more associated with the development of the motor car and the road . Maybe there needs to be a large project to set up a museum , with central funding. It needs the clout of organisation like NRM to push for proper funding of an important part of railway history.

Edited July 10, 2017 by rue_d_etropal

[phil-b259]

Far too much attention, and money seems to be thrown at worn out old steam locos.Not that they don't need preserving, but whole chunks of electric railway history have literally been chucked in the bin. Electric railways have been around for over 100 years, and were way ahead of their time, and they are also the future.

 

However electric trains simply do not appeal to the 'family looking for a train ride' segment of the market who provide the bulk of visitors to Heritage Railways. Hence why even the most recent start ups like the Mid Norfolk try and arrange to have a guest stem loco over the peak season.

 

If enthusiasts want to save EMUs then they need to back up their verbal statements of support with serious cash - because its not going to come from 'joe public' in anything like the way like it does for steam traction.

 

Of course it would be nice if HMG recognised that making money is not everything and perhaps invested more in expanding museum provision in the UK - something akin to Shildon and perhaps tied to another museum would be the ideal way to retain this collection of vehicles for the future - but in the current political environment thats about as likely as seeing pigs fly (particularly as local councils, who at one time might have been able to help, are struggling with funding for vital community services).

 

What would be nice is if some generous philanthropist was willing to step in and finance a suitable exhibition hall for the collection, but again an EMU shed is simply not as attractive as other things if you have large amounts of money to donate.

[Kelly]

It would be a shame if any of the stock was lost, as a number of items are very unique (the SUB, C&SLR carriages, HSFV1, etc).

 

Hopefully solution(s) will be found, whether that is splitting the stock and selling off some of it to fund a smaller collection needing less space or finding somewhere for it all is the question at present i'd imagine.

 

Was up there Sunday to get some photos of the SUB, EPBs and 457 67300 for ongoing projects.

[jetmorgan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-40596512/coventry-museum-set-to-open-for-final-time-in-october

 

Hope they can find or can be found a new site

Edited July 14, 2017 by jetmorgan

[Dava]

The Old Dalby test track & sidings would be ideal for an electric railway museum...not currently available. It could also host visiting AC electric locos from Barrow Hill. 'Never say never'. Reddish DED would have been ideal too. Allerton TMD?

 

The EE battery/electric loco has particular appeal for me and its an important collection.

 

Dava

[AndyH]

Also, it would be good to find a covered site too. Many preservation railways appear to be fundraising for, or looking at, rolling stock sheds.

Given the amount of effort required to maintain stock, and perhaps an aging and twinkling, maybe twinkling but Autocorrect changed that from dwindling, workforce with more stringent working at height guidelines, this would be vital for their next home.

An HLF bid perhaps?

Good luck to them, a worthwhile cause.

Andy

Edited July 21, 2017 by AndyH

[ChrisH-UK]

Given that the main areas to introduce electric railways at the start of the 20th century were London, Liverpool/Manchester and Tyneside, it does seem odd that the museum was started up in the West Midlands where as far as I remember there were no electric railways will BR electrified the mainline. The area is possibly more associated with the development of the motor car and the road . Maybe there needs to be a large project to set up a museum , with central funding. It needs the clout of organisation like NRM to push for proper funding of an important part of railway history.

 

But being the MIDlands means it's not too far from London and the Northwest, ok Tyneside is a bit more of a stretch. If the choice was a few Tyneside pieces in the Northeast, a few bits from Liverpool/Manchester in Northwest and things from the Southeast in the London area all diluting the effort and being marginalised or one central museum bringing it all together I know what I would choose.

[runs as required]

You have probably approached all possible benefactors, but the National Lottery and those that dispense its grants have been particularly supporting the opening of the Post Office underground railway at Mount Pleasant near St Pauls in London -  quite definitely an oddity in terms of existing visitor attractions .

 

I would have thought that a well thought out museum that focused on the potential of electrical transportation from early days to the present and with snapshots of future possibilities could be ideally located in Coventry.

It is a city fallen on hard times but, thanks to Lanchester , with a proud engineering heritage. It has always been close to the centre of the Midland Cross through every mode of transportation - and the era of the automated electric zero-headway expressway for freight and for people mover is within the Millennium Generation's lifespan.

dh

[tamperman36]

That's quite some coincidence  that they announce  that the ERM is to close just days after the government announced the dropping of several electrification  projects.

 

This is still bad news, I hope a new home can be found and the collection kept together.

[phil-b259]

Just a point re Lottery funding - its increasingly hard to be sucessfull thses days as there is lots of competition for funds, especailly as other sources of funding dry up due to national / local Government budget cuts. Also the Heritage Lottery Fund have made it very clear that they expect to see (1) signifficant match funding raised by the applicant towards the project and (2) A robust demonstration of the legacy benefits of the project.

 

For example it took 5 applications in the space of a decade before a decision was made to grant funding to restore the sole surviving LNER J21 0-6-0 locomotive and a significant part of the money will be going other things than the actual locomotive. As the HLF state** :-

 

"Thanks to National Lottery players, Kirkby Stephen East (KSE) station - the main tourist attraction in the area and entirely run by volunteers - will be transformed. The project will return a Victorian locomotive (J21 number 65033 – built in 1889 and the last one remaining) to steam and create a new Heritage and Interpretation suite in an Edwardian railway stores van.

To be run by the Locomotive Conservation and Learning Trust (LCLT) and the Stainmore Railway Company (SRC), the new exhibits will explore 200 years of rail in Cumbria, with an action-packed programme of events on offer for families, schools, local Scout groups and volunteers. It is planned that J21 will be in steam for 21 days a year on special event days. Keep an eye on website for details."

 

Equally the Bluebell Railways recent apeal to refurbish / re equip part of the running shed at Sheffield Park as a museum also contained the commitment to**** :- 

 

In addition to the HLF award, the Bluebell Railway will contribute £388,000 (including £214,000 raised from the Ash Appeal) in cash plus a substantial amount of effort in kind to be put in by many members of its 700-strong volunteer workforce. The three year project will see the exhibition opening in Spring 2018 after which it will run for a further two years with extensive plans to utilise the exhibition to engage the public and support the growth of visitor numbers.

The project also aims to increase the Bluebell's capacity to work with schools in developing their Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths (STEM) curriculum, with a target of increasing school visits by 150% by 2020. An Interpretation and Education Development Manager will be employed for an initial three-year period and applications are already being sought to fill this post.

 

As such the HLF will be of no help to the ERM in the short term (either finding a new home or moving the vehicles to it) - and in the longer term the HLF will not simply shell out for a large storage shed. They will expect to see a large contribution from the ERM in match funding and volunteer labour along with a firm commitment to provide an ongoing educational facility ( a big shed with large exhibits does not count towards this) complete with a detailed programme of community involvement, how future generations will benefit etc.

 

** https://www.hlf.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/multi-million-pound-funding-boost-cumbria-thanks-national

 

**** https://www.hlf.org.uk/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/green-light-bluebell-railway

Edited July 23, 2017 by phil-b259

[stewartingram]

I do keep thinking of Blackpool Rigby Road tram depot. Now vacated by the modernised tramway, it remains home to the Heritage fleet of trams. Is there any room here for storage of some items from Coventry? Obviously they would be non working exhibits. I know some of the depot track entrance was de-commissioned due to track condition. Also there may have been a takeover bus the bus section, but I'm not sure if this ever happenned?

 

Stewart

[asmay2002]

However electric trains simply do not appeal to the 'family looking for a train ride' segment of the market who provide the bulk of visitors to Heritage Railways.

Crich seems to do alright. https://www.tramway.co.uk/

[MarkC]

Crich seems to do alright. https://www.tramway.co.uk/

Crich is, of course, somewhere which has lots of interesting things for non-rail buffs to see and do, plus a nice ride in the trams to be had. Their marketing appears to work well too.

[AndyH]

As such the HLF will be of no help to the ERM in the short term (either finding a new home or moving the vehicles to it) - and in the longer term the HLF will not simply shell out for a large storage shed. They will expect to see a large contribution from the ERM in match funding and volunteer labour along with a firm commitment to provide an ongoing educational facility ( a big shed with large exhibits does not count towards this) complete with a detailed programme of community involvement, how future generations will benefit etc.

 

As every funding bid has constraints, yes, so does the HLF. Though these are preserved for a reason, and not just for railway enthusiasts, and so every railway project should go through a legacy, access, interpretation definition process.

 

An HLF bid would have to be as part of a move to a relevant historic location. You can ask them for advice and their potential to fund. In this case the relative uniqueness.

How many people used these, or similar, in a daily basis?

That is part of the story you pitch to gain funding.

Andy

[phil-b259]

 

As such the HLF will be of no help to the ERM in the short term (either finding a new home or moving the vehicles to it) - and in the longer term the HLF will not simply shell out for a large storage shed. They will expect to see a large contribution from the ERM in match funding and volunteer labour along with a firm commitment to provide an ongoing educational facility ( a big shed with large exhibits does not count towards this) complete with a detailed programme of community involvement, how future generations will benefit etc.

 

As every funding bid has constraints, yes, so does the HLF. Though these are preserved for a reason, and not just for railway enthusiasts, and so every railway project should go through a legacy, access, interpretation definition process.

 

An HLF bid would have to be as part of a move to a relevant historic location. You can ask them for advice and their potential to fund. In this case the relative uniqueness.

How many people used these, or similar, in a daily basis?

That is part of the story you pitch to gain funding.

Andy

 

Indeed so.

 

Which was why I said what I did, namely that a HLF bid requires a lot of careful thought and detailed work for it to be a success - which takes time. Given the situation the ERM find themselves in with the need to vacate their current site by the end of the year and the limited resources they have, talk of HLF funding is premature and will do nothing to solve their immediate problem of finding a new site for the stock - preferably one that also gives them the security of tenure so they can work up a HLF bid in the longer term.

[phil-b259]

Crich seems to do alright. https://www.tramway.co.uk/

I would put Crich in the same category as say Beamish or Amberly museums as railway / tramway element is part of something bigger which can entertain those not particularly interested by rail transport.

[jjb1970]

I have a pet theory that one of the biggest problems facing private museums is free entry to government owned museums. People visit the big government museums like the Science Museum, V&A (btw, a fabulous museum, don’t let preconceived ideas that the subject matter is of no interest put you off if you’ve never been), Natural History Museum, RAF Museum etc and compare the extremely professional and expensive standards of presentation and the sheer scale of what is being exhibited free of charge at point of entry with many smaller private museums where you have to pay to get in. Now don’t get me wrong, I love these smaller museums, I am not for a minute begrudging them their entry fee and I suspect they’re more efficiently managed and operated than their bigger, free-er government operated cousins but to many members of the visiting public I suspect that free entry into the big government museums has set an expectation that museums should be free. Even where government museums are not free, compare the experience of visiting Duxford with most over pay for entry museums for which the entry fee is similar or even greater. We know that these private museums are only recovering their costs, and probably exist on a bit of a shoestring, but there is a psychological effect that if something bigger (and let’s be honest, better) is free then why pay?

That said, purveyors of tat like Madame Tussaud’s or the London Dungeon seem to do OK charging an awful lot more than most museums.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I can remember Crich in its early days when it was probably not much more than the ERM is now. So it can probably be done but will require some very visionary work to make it happen.

[Kelly]

I can remember Crich in its early days when it was probably not much more than the ERM is now. So it can probably be done but will require some very visionary work to make it happen.

Bearing in mind most of the electric stock is 3rd rail it is doubtful they'd get permission to lay suitable electrification to run the trains due to current health and safety laws in place (in part why network rail don't extend any of the current 3rd rail network).

 

So alternative means of moving the stock to put on something like crich would be needed. They previously had 3 mlvs, but 2 were sold and the other scrapped, but the battery replacement costs were too high.

 

It is a difficult one to figure out really, as to have such stock moving as an exhibition in the same way as crich would require masses more room.

[Pannier Tank]

Bearing in mind most of the electric stock is 3rd rail it is doubtful they'd get permission to lay suitable electrification to run the trains due to current health and safety laws in place (in part why network rail don't extend any of the current 3rd rail network).

 

So alternative means of moving the stock to put on something like crich would be needed. They previously had 3 mlvs, but 2 were sold and the other scrapped, but the battery replacement costs were too high.

 

Maybe a home could be found on a Preserved Line using a 33/1 in Push / Pull Mode?

[Joseph_Pestell]

How many items are involved? Or might be in the future?

 

Just trying to get a fix on the sort of space that would be needed and wondering if it could be combined with the proposed model railway project at Ashford.

[Nearholmer]

"That said, purveyors of tat like Madame Tussaud’s or the London Dungeon seem to do OK charging an awful lot more than most museums."

 

The issue is around attracting people to visit, whether it be an "attraction", or a museum.

 

To be direct, the number of people who are going to make a day out of going to visit a museum devoted solely to electric railways is vanishingly small. Mum, Dad and The Kids, are not going to put such a thing anywhere near the top of their list!

 

Which leaves the question of how best to convey the history of electric railways, and my gut feeling is that conveying it as an adjunct to something else might be the best bet. The NRM, where it can be conveyed as part of the story of railways; Crich, which could, with small amendment, convey the broader story of electric traction; the LT Museum, where the impact of the technology, if not the technology itself, is actually covered very well already; Brighton, where the story could be coupled to that of the VER; etc.

 

Even the vast majority of railway enthusiasts don't understand, and aren't attracted by, the history of electric traction. The standard books on the history are very little known in the enthusiast community, so there is a bit of " a hill to climb" in getting the topic over to anyone else.

 

Finally, the rolling stock. It is a very open question as to how much rolling stock is actually needed to "inform and educate", and it sure doesn't have the power to "entertain" in the way that steam does. The VER, the already preserved LOR car, and the CSLR loco and car between them give a very good view of the early years; the LSWR unit in the NRM collection, 'Sarah Siddons' and the 38TS cover the period up to WW2. I'm less sure about what in the way of 25kV locos is preserved, but one from AL1-AL6 would be adequate.

 

And, don't forget that the nature of electric railways is that half of the story is the infrastructure, so that it might be better to put effort into preserving, say, a functioning rotary-convertor substation than another item of motive power ........ but it's probably too late for that.

 

Upshot? My gut feeling is that a combination of interpretive galleries/displays in the right places, and some more 'general appeal' books might be the way to go. And, the same applies to internal-combustion traction, the history of which seems equally poorly understood by most enthusiasts.

 

And, none of this with disrespect to the guys at the ERM, who have worked hard to do good things; I'm just attempting to apply a cold-shower of reality.

 

Kevin (who worked for forty years in electric traction, and thinks the whole topic is utterly fascinating, but understands why few others do!)

[PhilJ W]

Bearing in mind most of the electric stock is 3rd rail it is doubtful they'd get permission to lay suitable electrification to run the trains due to current health and safety laws in place (in part why network rail don't extend any of the current 3rd rail network).

 

So alternative means of moving the stock to put on something like crich would be needed. They previously had 3 mlvs, but 2 were sold and the other scrapped, but the battery replacement costs were too high.

 

It is a difficult one to figure out really, as to have such stock moving as an exhibition in the same way as crich would require masses more room.

It is getting difficult now to operate such stock on the main line apart from things like certification. Upgrades of the main line such as increases of voltage and advanced signalling systems means that a lot of this stock is now unsuitable.