Midland Johnson 3130

[Black Country Mon]

I've had this in the to do cupboard for a while so as i need a test piece for my new EM layout i thought it would be the perfect runaround to test my dubious hand built track work.

 

I decided to try out some Alan Gibson hornblocks with this chassis so following a read through of Kenton's hornblock factory workshop 4 were duly produced. 

 

 

 

Frames were marked out and cut to suit the outer profile. I found i needed to go a little deeper than the 4mm above datum as suggested in the destructions. The rear axle is fixed for a High Level Roadrunner + gearbox from Chris.  

 

Frames went together very easily with a multitudinous array of spacers to chose from.

 

 

 

 

 

Brake supports added but i'll make the brake assembly separate from the chassis for painting etc

 

Coupling rods were laminated and left as jointed. Jim gives you 3 layers on the etch for laminating but that would have been too much so i used just the 2 layers. 

 

This is what comes with the body etches

 

 

 

Gearbox to make up now and get that all running.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Black Country Mon

[Black Country Mon]

Decided to make up the footplate next as i need to cut out a section for the gearbox/motor to pass through.

 

 

 

Made up the first tank side with inset doors soldered. i've also made up the cab front and rear with 0.33mm wire grills to the rear windows. Splashers and tank cut out formed without any problems and without having to remove any material.

 

Handrail knobs to add now before i solder in the cab front/rear and tank stiffener assembly.

 

 

 

Dave 

[jdb82]

Hi Dave,

I'm looking forwards to following your build here - I'm a complete novice when it comes to kit building, and I'm hoping this will be quite useful for me. I'm about to start building a Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0 short tank which would have worked on the Manchester Ship Canal. Although your J50 obviously isn't the same, it's not a million miles away from the long tank version of the Hudswell Clarke. The instructions I have are a bit sketchy, so I'm hoping following your build could be quite useful! 

Once I start, I'll be posting regular updates, probably with a heap of questions to go along with it ;-)

Enjoy the build,

John

[Black Country Mon]

Cheers John

 

I'm sure i'll be making mistakes too that's how we learn i guess.

 

This kit is really nice, well thought out accurate etchings that fit well good diagrams that still leave some scope for you to change the order around a bit to suit your own build.

 

I made a cut out in the front cab section so that the gearbox clears it. The gearbox protrudes slightly into the cab but i'll hide that with the backhead later. 

 

I added the handrails before i soldered the tank stiffeners in place. Just had to be careful when soldering the stiffeners in that i didn't add too much heat to the assembly which might have added a twist in the footplate. 

 

 

 

 

 

One with the body sat on the chassis. 

 

 

 

Starting to take shape now. Boiler to roll next.

 

Dave

[Daddyman]

Looking good. What wire did you use to secure the Gibson hornblocks? Do the blocks waggle around in the keeps? I've never got them to work, and rarely seen anyone else who has either. 

[Black Country Mon]

Looking good. What wire did you use to secure the Gibson hornblocks? Do the blocks waggle around in the keeps? I've never got them to work, and rarely seen anyone else who has either. 

 

I've just used the wire that came with the hornblocks for now 0.45 dia. They do waggle about a small amount, it may be that i'll need to increase that wire diameter if they don't behave once i've got the wheels and coupling rods attached for a test. It's the first time i've used Alan Gibson hornblocks so all a learning curve for me. They do seem a bit open to inaccuracies though as they rely on you cutting the chassis in the first place, getting a perfectly square keep made up with the wire retainer/guide and then all soldered in place.

 

Dave 

[Horsetan]

 

Looking good. What wire did you use to secure the Gibson hornblocks? Do the blocks waggle around in the keeps? I've never got them to work, and rarely seen anyone else who has either.

I've just used the wire that came with the hornblocks for now 0.45 dia. They do waggle about a small amount, it may be that i'll need to increase that wire diameter if they don't behave....

 

I changed the guide wire diameter to 0.7mm. Much less slop.

[Daddyman]

I changed the guide wire diameter to 0.7mm. Much less slop.

Yes, I had a feeling it was you who made that mod, Ivan. Any good? Do they move at all with 0.7? 

 

I'm right in thinking the slop is fatal, right?

[Horsetan]

Yes, I had a feeling it was you who made that mod, Ivan. Any good? Do they move at all with 0.7? 

 

I'm right in thinking the slop is fatal, right?

 

I did it on a "Duchess" chassis. 0.7mm still allows rise and fall of the bearing, but reduces the rather alarming tilt angles that the original 0.45 spec gives. I also tried soldering Exactoscale-style faceplates to the outer faces of each bearing to help the vertical sliding action.

 

Slop is not helpful, and especially not slop that allows a bearing to travel from side to side in a hornblock thus varying the wheelbase. 

[Daddyman]

I've just used the wire that came with the hornblocks for now 0.45 dia. They do waggle about a small amount, it may be that i'll need to increase that wire diameter if they don't behave once i've got the wheels and coupling rods attached for a test. It's the first time i've used Alan Gibson hornblocks so all a learning curve for me. They do seem a bit open to inaccuracies though as they rely on you cutting the chassis in the first place, getting a perfectly square keep made up with the wire retainer/guide and then all soldered in place.

 

Dave 

I tried with them a couple of times and gave up - converted the chassis back to rigid. The thing that worries me is that in kits like those supplied by Dave Bradwell, they tell you to be very careful to identify all the hornblocks so that you can put them back in the same hornkeep if you ever remove them, so critical is the level of adjustment required. However, what worries me about Gibsons / Gibson's is that there's no need for that, as you never get them to a point where the adjustment is fine enough. So, basically, I suppose I'm saying that I doubt them because they don't demand/allow a sufficient level of finickiness. Daft? Possibly... But does anyone know of a finished loco that has accumulated a good mileage on Gibson hornblocks? 

[Black Country Mon]

Thanks Ivan i guessed i'd need to do something with that 0.45 wire.

 

A little more work tonight, out came the GW rollers for forming the boiler and smokebox.

 

 

 

The lower section of boiler visible through the tank cut outs is a separate section and fits under tabs on the tank stiffeners. The tabs are there to sit the boiler and smokebox onto.

 

 

 

I fitted the boiler bands supplied although i usually just use magic tape these had an etched profile to slot into the boiler grooves so was quite a neat fit.

 

I used a piece of 0.7mm dia wire to form the joint between the boiler and smokebox. All just positioned to see how it fits will be soldered in place next.

 

 

 

 

Dave 

[Horsetan]

I tried with them a couple of times and gave up - converted the chassis back to rigid. The thing that worries me is that in kits like those supplied by Dave Bradwell, they tell you to be very careful to identify all the hornblocks so that you can put them back in the same hornkeep if you ever remove them, so critical is the level of adjustment required. However, what worries me about Gibsons / Gibson's is that there's no need for that, as you never get them to a point where the adjustment is fine enough. So, basically, I suppose I'm saying that I doubt them because they don't demand/allow a sufficient level of finickiness. Daft? Possibly...

 

They were supplied in all of the Gibson kits that I acquired over the years, and I also had a couple of extra sets to experiment with (hence the "Duchess" chassis). My view was, well, the parts are supplied so I might as well use as much of them as I can so that I don't end up with piles of random leftovers.

 

If anything, I found that positioning Gibson hornblocks is even more critical than with other types, because they don't have mounting / backing plates or any other aid that would allow you to shuffle them until you have a correct wheelbase; all you get are the bearings and the fold-up inverted "U". This is partly why I changed the guide wires from 0.45 to 0.7 because that stops the bearings falling about. It also means that you have to be very accurate when sawing out the requisite openings in the chassis to take the hornblocks.

 

Nowadays, of course, you also have the benefit of those expensively-engineered chassis jigs from Hobby Holidays and Avonside, so hopefully there is less nervousness about using Gibson hornblocks and bearings.

 

Thanks Ivan i guessed i'd need to do something with that 0.45 wire.....

Yes, change it to 0.7!

 

The J50 is coming on a treat - I really like seeing brass being formed and shaped in the raw.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Horsetan

[Black Country Mon]

 

The J50 is coming on a treat - I really like seeing brass being formed and shaped in the raw.

 

 

Yes there is something primordial about raw materials especially steel and brass. 

 

A little more progress from last evenings hour at the bench, boiler and smoke box (handrails added before fixing) now attached along with the fairly fiddly tank tops and rivet strips.

 

 

 

 

 

Next to add all of the beading around tanks, cab etc

 

Dave

[jdb82]

Been away for a few days and came back to your J50 looking mighty fine!

Any tips for rolling a boiler? Not evening that task as I don't have a set of rollers.....

[Horsetan]

....Any tips for rolling a boiler? Not evening that task as I don't have a set of rollers.....

I used to use either a table or chair leg, or similar wooden rod, rolling it on the carpet or even a thigh.....

 

Then I bought a GW Models roller.....

[DougN]

The thing I ... well... um ....inherited from a local late modeller was a 12mm ground round bright steel bar, perfect for rolling a boiler on the edge of a rug on a timber floor. Firm, even support on rug with knuckle clearance... the knees on the rug make the process comfortable and quick. 

 

One day when I manage to get back to a scaleforum I will purchase a GW roller... I hope this is sooner than later! It is a bit of a long way for the weekend..... from Melbourne Australia.... And the family always want to come which makes it quite pricy! 

[Black Country Mon]

Been away for a few days and came back to your J50 looking mighty fine!

Any tips for rolling a boiler? Not evening that task as I don't have a set of rollers.....

 

When i first kitted myself out i picked up a range of short wooden dowels from B&Q and Wickes of various diameter for forming tumble homes, bending tender sides and boilers/smoke boxes. As long as the etch isn't too thick they should roll pretty easy. I used to roll them on an old thicker mouse mat. don't try to roll it in one go though do it with lots of small pressure adjustments. If in doubt try to get some brass or nickel silver sheet from one of the suppliers like Eileens or off Ebay, cut the same size out and try it out, you've nothing to loose then. If the material is quite resilient you may need to anneal the piece on the gas ring heating it before trying to roll it. Use some decent gauntlets though, proper PPE is a must if you do. 

 

I acquired too many kits not to warrant purchasing a set of rollers though. The small ones from George at GW roll to a smaller diameter but the longer rollers that i have give you more flexibilty to roll longer items. 

 

Dave 

[Horsetan]

.....Use some decent gauntlets though, proper PPE is a must if you do....

 

I'm thinking welding grade ones.

[Black Country Mon]

Grabbed an hour tonight after tea to get the cab roof formed and soldered on along with the coal guard, and all the beading around tanks, cab sides, roof and bunker eventually positioned.

 

 

 

 

 

Need to clean up the roof joint before i start adding the white metal castings and pipework, steps etc. I've a few googled photos so they have given me a good idea of visible pipework. There was no back head and interior fittings with the kit probably because of limited visibility into the cab but i'll make something up once i've checked exactly how far back the gearbox sits. 

 

After that it'll be back to complete the chassis to get that ready for painting

 

Dave

[Black Country Mon]

Added most of the white metal castings and the pipework. For some reason i always find the steps the most testing items to get anything near ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got to fill the single handrail knob/handle on the smoke box door, rear sandboxes and pipes, lamp brackets, door dart, coupling hooks and vac pipes to add, then on to complete the chassis.

 

Dave

[DougN]

It is certainly looking very sharp. I suggest once painted it will look sharper than the Hornby version due to the crisp and thin edges from the brass. Though you may have to weather it to bring out the detail as the plain black loco's can tend to hide the extra work that you have done! 

[Black Country Mon]

It is certainly looking very sharp. I suggest once painted it will look sharper than the Hornby version due to the crisp and thin edges from the brass. Though you may have to weather it to bring out the detail as the plain black loco's can tend to hide the extra work that you have done! 

 

 

Thanks Doug yes i don't think it'd look right freshly painted ex works, weathering is a must in my book.

 

 

I added all of the last few small details to the body and then turned my attention to finishing the chassis. Changed the wire in the horn blocks to 0.6 dia as 0.7 would just have been too tight in this setup, much better, no waggling. I've also opted to try the Gibson plunger pickups as you can see from the photo as i've a few packs from various kits. I will also add my preferred wipers too, to double up just in case. Added the brake gear and after i was satisfied i'd not forgotten anything, primed and top coated it. 

 

 

 

Since taking the photo i found one set of the wheels had got a fracture in the web of a couple of spokes so i've had to substitute that pair for a newer set of Gibsons. The 2 sets that were usable didn't like fitting into the GW wheel press as its set up for 1/8 axles and not the stepped type that these were, so had a bit of a wrestle to get them pressed home and quartered correctly. 

 

I'll add the coupling rods next, add a bit of weight to compress the horn blocks to a neutral location and test it out.

 

Dave 

[Horsetan]

.....The 2 sets that were usable didn't like fitting into the GW wheel press as its set up for 1/8 axles and not the stepped type that these were,...

Doesn't GW Models offer an alternative plunger for 3mm axles?

[Black Country Mon]

Doesn't GW Models offer an alternative plunger for 3mm axles?

George may do i'm not sure but as i've only one set maybe two tops of these old style bushed stepped axle wheels it's not really worth procuring anything. A new tool is always a nice addition though.

[Black Country Mon]

Got the chassis finished and test fitted onto the body, all runs nice and freely once i had added a bit of lead into the boiler to bring the front end down centralizing the horn blocks with the driven axle.  

 

 

 

 

 

The body needs a good clean up now before i can get the Halfords etch primer onto it.

 

Dave