faa77 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) I have a Class 56 "Harworth Colliery" (R3033XS) body and I would like to pair it up with a suitable chassis. Which of the following Hornby Class 56 models could I use for a donor with no modifications (I may have missed some models)? R2645 (BR Blue) R2646 (Red stripe) R2647 (Coal sector) R2648 (EWS) R2750 (EWS) R2751 (Loadhaul) R2752 (Metals sector) R2776 (Fastline) R2962 (Oystermouth) R3050 (BR Blue) R3052 (Construction sector) R3181 (Large arrow) R3265 (Colas) Edited July 16, 2017 by faa77 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br60066 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) What type of connectors are on the bottoms of the cabs for the lights? According to Hornby's service sheets any model from R2750 onwards features the new cab contacts so if your body also has the new ones any chassis after R2750 will work. Seeing as your model starts with R3 I would assume it has the new ones. Edited July 16, 2017 by Br60066 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 One thing you have to watch out for is that the sound fitted locos have the lights in opposite polarity and higher voltage to the non-sound ones. I tried swapping the body from an R3050A onto the Harworth Colliery chassis and vice versa and in both cases had no working lights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faa77 Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) One thing you have to watch out for is that the sound fitted locos have the lights in opposite polarity and higher voltage to the non-sound ones. I tried swapping the body from an R3050A onto the Harworth Colliery chassis and vice versa and in both cases had no working lights. Oh you're joking? Why on earth do they do this? Surely it must increase production costs having all these different model deviations?! So I need to purchase an expensive DCC sound model to get the lights on this? Edited July 16, 2017 by faa77 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Oh you're joking? Why on earth do they do this? Surely it must increase production costs having all these different model deviations?! So I need to purchase an expensive DCC sound model to get the lights on this? Or swap the cab interior/lighting units as well if it's possible. I didn't try that as they didn't seem to want to come out easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faa77 Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Or swap the cab interior/lighting units as well if it's possible. I didn't try that as they didn't seem to want to come out easily. Is the chassis symmetrical? Could I attach the body the opposite way around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Is the chassis symmetrical? Could I attach the body the opposite way around? I don't think that would make any difference, one version has the LEDs common anode, the other is common cathode. Also the supply to the LEDs is about 3v on the non-sound and full 12v on the sound version. They have completely different circuit boards, sound fitted have a 21 pin dcc socket and the others 8 pin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faa77 Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) I don't think that would make any difference, one version has the LEDs common anode, the other is common cathode. Also the supply to the LEDs is about 3v on the non-sound and full 12v on the sound version. They have completely different circuit boards, sound fitted have a 21 pin dcc socket and the others 8 pin. Hang on, forgive me I think you may have misunderstood my intentions. I just want to use this body as if it was a normal analogue loco with the lights working? (I just didn't want to have to pay the DCC sound price simply for a different nameplate and number) Edited July 16, 2017 by faa77 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Hang on, forgive me I think you may have misunderstood my intentions. I just want to use this body as if it was a normal analogue loco with the lights working? That doesn't make any difference to the lights, the circuit board contains the resistors and diodes that make the lights work directionally when running dc. If you put a sound loco body on a non-sound chassis the supply to the lighting LEDs is the wrong polarity and the wrong voltage and they won't work whether it is on dc or dcc. i only mentioned the 21/8 pin dcc socket issue to highlight the fact that a totally different circuit board is used. It was mentioned previously here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89691-Hornby-class-56-ex-sound-chassis/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) ...and the chassis is 'handed' in terms of the compressors being at the same end both sides. Rad fans chassis mounted also. C6T. Edited July 17, 2017 by Classsix T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br60066 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) You could purchase new cab units of eBay from non sound locos and fit them in to your body shell. These should be a simple swap involving the removal of the cab plastic since the light are built on to the moulding. That at least works for class 60's so hopefully the 56 will be the same idea. Edited July 17, 2017 by Br60066 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 are the lights part of the cab unit on the Class 56? I know I tried to swap that on Class 60s but found them glued in pretty tightly that it wasn't moving anywhere. Is there a separate PCB for the lights on the Class 56 that could be unscrewed/swapped easier? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br60066 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I'm not entirely sure about that but I don't know where you'd be able so source the pcb. Maybe peters spares. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh my goodness me Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 To answer the original question, which was "Which of the following Hornby Class 56 models could I use for a donor with no modifications (I may have missed some models)?" The answer, as has been alluded to, is, the chassis off any model ending in xs. Because of the strange/non standard Hornby chassis on the non-sound models with common negative LED's, there isn't an easy solution Whilst the 56 chassis comes up regularly on ebay, I've never seen a 21 pin sound one. are the lights part of the cab unit on the Class 56? I know I tried to swap that on Class 60s but found them glued in pretty tightly that it wasn't moving anywhere. Is there a separate PCB for the lights on the Class 56 that could be unscrewed/swapped easier? They are on a board which is glued into the cab. There is an article on page 78 of Model Rail magazine from June 2012 which explains various modifications. That doesn't make any difference to the lights, the circuit board contains the resistors and diodes that make the lights work directionally when running dc. If you put a sound loco body on a non-sound chassis the supply to the lighting LEDs is the wrong polarity and the wrong voltage and they won't work whether it is on dc or dcc. i only mentioned the 21/8 pin dcc socket issue to highlight the fact that a totally different circuit board is used. It was mentioned previously here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89691-Hornby-class-56-ex-sound-chassis/ And it will make your LED's go "pop" You could purchase new cab units of eBay from non sound locos and fit them in to your body shell. These should be a simple swap involving the removal of the cab plastic since the light are built on to the moulding. That at least works for class 60's so hopefully the 56 will be the same idea. No you can't. The class 60 cabs are/were available as a spare. What type of connectors are on the bottoms of the cabs for the lights? According to Hornby's service sheets any model from R2750 onwards features the new cab contacts so if your body also has the new ones any chassis after R2750 will work. Seeing as your model starts with R3 I would assume it has the new ones. The connectors have nothing to do with the issue. The connectors were replaced from R2750 onwards because the ones fitted to early models were unreliable. The newer style connectors are available currently on ebay and from Peter's spares. An ideal upgrade if you have an early model. Option 1: Buy an xs model, use the chassis and sell the sound chip and body on. Option 2: Buy an "8 pin" chassis, remove the circuit boards from the cab ends and solder the LED's the opposite way round. Unless you are an expert solderer it is very difficult to remove these intact, they are 0603 SMD LED's and will need to be replaced. It is important to note that the replacement LED's should be soldered in with the polarity as shown on the circuit boards. In the sound models, Hornby have soldered the LED's into the circuit boards in the xs models the opposite way round (positive to negative, negative to positive) to correct their "issue". make them positive common and enable them to work with the standard 21 pin circuit boards . Option 3: Buy an 8 pin chassis and modify with a ESU 51968 board (and blanking plate for running on DC). Perhaps someone has a better suggestion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) My heavy 56 is R2645X and I can confirm having blown my directional lighting leds by testing the body that the controlling resistors are indeed on the chassis PCB. Said leds are smds shining into plastic light tubes and getting at them involves destructive dismantling of the drivers bench, which is not listed as a spare. I can also confirm some models have positive anode and some positive cathode circuitry just to add to your woes. I have no idea if the 21-pin socket versions will play nice with all 21MTC decoders as there have been occasions of misbehaving 21-pin decoders versus various manufacturers chassis. Edit: I bypassed those springy connectors by hardwiring round them, leaving the wires long enough to lift the body clear and lie alongside the chassis for maintenance. I also fitted sound and the 28mm round speaker sits on a plasticard shelf over the bogie gear tower at the end opposite the fans. The cab doors are propped open at this end to allow the racket to escape. Rob Edited August 2, 2017 by RAFHAAA96 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 5, 2017 (edited) I took your list widened the list to what I can see produced and added running numbers to it.. R2645 (BR Blue) 56013 R2646 (Red stripe) 56049 R2647 (Coal sector) 56128 R2648 (EWS) 56059 R2750 (EWS) 56103 R2751 (Load haul) 56003 R2752 (Metals sector) 56032 R2776 (Fast line) 56302 R2781XS (coal sector) 56127 * R2962 (Railfreight Grey) 56040 R3033XS (Coal sector) 56033 * R3050 (BR Blue) 56082 R3052 (Construction sector) 56037 R3181 (Large arrow) 56084 R3265 (Colas) 56087 R3291XS (Colas) 56094 * R3473 (Railfreight) 56108 * DCC sound Edited August 5, 2017 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium richierich Posted August 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) If the body is from a sound fitted model, which in this case it is, the cab lights are wired for DCC sound chassis only, therefore you can only swop the body to another factory DCC sound (21pin) chassis to have working lights. If your not bothered about the light, insulate the contacts to use on a 8 pin chassis. The LEDs rather easy to blow, and extremely hard to replace, because the light unit is a sub-assembly of the cab interior, which is superglued together. I've tried to repair one, but having even got to circuit board, they use SMD LEDs, which looks to 0603s, so a very fiddly soldering exercise indeed. I suppose you could change the polarity of the contacts for the cab interiors on the chassis by rewiring to the board. But not experimented with this yet. Hornby have never made the cab interiors available as spare parts (unlike on the Class 31 and Class 60). It rather frustrating, because I've several bodies which need cab interiors to complete the loco. I do believe the DCC lighting guy on eBay (Stickyswipe) has produced replacement lighting boards for the super detailed class 56, but not made these widely available, because I assume their isn't much of a market for them. Why Hornby choose to switch polarity between factory sound fitted models (21 pin boards) and DCC ready (8pin boards) is total mystery and have no sense when it comes to economies on scale for producing models. Edited August 13, 2017 by richierich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I have the same issues. I want to take the sound decoder out of Colas 56094 and fit it to Metals 56032. I tried swapping the bodies and realised that there was a problem when the lights didn't work on both locos. I have swapped back and thankfully so haven't blown the LEDs. So, I now need a Hornby 21 pin blanking plug for the Colas loco. Does this exist? Also, I assume that I will need to sell the decoder/speaker as I can only fit these onto a loco that already is sound fitted. Exasperating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 If your main requirement is for working lights and if you are upto the work you could always fit a non sound chassis and an express models (no connection) lighting kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) I can confirm the smd leds buried in the drivers desks are size 0603 as I have successfully replaced mine. Edit - separate red and white leds. Once you are in there it is relatively easy as the pcb is marked + / - and the led data sheet tells which end is which. Just a case of holding the smd led firmly in place with a suitable tool and applying the iron to each end. I repeat my warning about testing the body lighting without a resistor in circuit. I use a 9 v block battery with clip on leads one off which has a 1K resistor soldered on. If as the OP says he is not DCC then with a blanking plate in place to control the directional lighting it should be easy to swap the lighting wires around at the chassis main pcb connections to suit the body if of opposite polarity, according to what you see on a multi-meter at these connections. Edit: Correction to my last paragraph - Post #8 says he wishes the lights to work as if they were analogue, so I now presume he is DCC after all - apologies. Rob Edited October 2, 2017 by RAFHAAA96 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I am trying to get to a non DCC Colas 56094 and a DCC sound fitted Metals 56032. Does a 21 pin blanking plug exist for Hornby as I cannot find this? I am happy to sell the 21 pin sound decoder and replace it with an 8 pin version for 56032. Any help much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MickD Posted October 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2017 I am trying to get to a non DCC Colas 56094 and a DCC sound fitted Metals 56032. Does a 21 pin blanking plug exist for Hornby as I cannot find this? I am happy to sell the 21 pin sound decoder and replace it with an 8 pin version for 56032. Any help much appreciated. Hi, Surely any 21 pin blanking plug will fit, does not need to be Hornby??. MickD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Hi Mick D I don't know. If a Bachmann 21 pin blanking plate is wired the same as a Hornby sound 21 pin socket then I am good to go. Before taking the plunge, can anyone confirm this? I don't fancy frying the circuit board. Thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MickD Posted October 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2017 Hi Mevaman, All blanking plugs are alike as far as I am aware, certainly all 8 pin ones. I think if it were me I would just fit a Bachmann plug and see what happens, all they do is pass current from track to motor. MickD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Many thanks - will try it later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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