Jersey Railway, tiny 2-4-0 tank

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

Went to a local show put on by the 009 society yesterday, near Mansfield, always find the ideas behind 009 inspiring, loads of lateral thinking about using n gauge chassis meant for something else, or making up tiny little kits to get some accurate models especially of smaller prototypes. I resisted buying old loco bodies on the 2nd hand sales to make or convert to something new, I've got plenty of stuff at home already and this is one such project. Where to find the underpinnings for small prototypes in 00? Short of scratch building is there anything that can be adapted?

 

 

 

Turns out this can.

 

This is going to be about wrangling a Brynkits 0-4-2 chassis kit intended for 3mm scale into a 2-4-0 chassis in 4mm 00 scale. That's 14.2 mm guage to 16.5 mm gauge. The kits are designed to make a GWR 14/48XX tank and come in two versions, one for traditional TT 12mm gauge and this one Kit 3L1402 for the wider fine scale 14.2 mm. For bodgers like me I get a chassis about 10.5 mm wide and when the top hat bearings are in place that will give me one 12mm wide, about right for an 00 chasiss.

 

That's the theory anyway.

 

 

 

The wheelbase dimensions are 22 + 24.5 mm ( 0-4-2 way round ) which gives us a coupled wheelbase of 5 foot 6 inch in 4mm scale, just right for my idea to build a model of the tiny Sharp Stewart tank used on the Isle of Jersey known locally there as Haro Haro. Whay are the origins of that name?

 

I'm using 16 mm wheels from Markits, I’ve got to swap the brakes around so a wheel on it's axles and popped into the hole to work out where to drill a new hole for the brake rodding, Tools used so far are the 1/8th inch tapered reamer or should that be “broach” to open out the axle holes to except the 1/8th axles and then open out the holes further to except the top hat bearing. A tappered reamer is meant to open out holes so they keep the same centre, something that a twist drill won't do.

 

These Brynkits chassis' are attractive to me as their design promises a better chance of me being able to make a nicely running chassis. They are all one piece, the sides being the same sheet of metal as the cross stretchers so all I have to do is fold up the two side squarely and bingo I'll have a smoothly running chassis. Maybe even I can get that right.

 

We'll see, onwards and upwards.

 

Picture show the broach/reamer, a Markits/Romford wheel special screwdriver, two brass top hat bearings of different makes with slightly different wall thickness’, my metal scribe and drill starter punch, a sharpened nail.

 

[Nearholmer]

Haro Haro was a cry to indicate that someone was being accused of a crime, and that everyone should pitch-in to catch them, I think.

 

Blooming clever idea to build a very nice loco. Wasn't it near identical with the locos of the London &Blackwall? And, doesn't someone make the etches? Worsley works? And, weren't the 3ft gauge locos on the Ravenglass and Eskdale basically the same, although 0-6-0T? Or, am I getting mixed up with MW locos? And should I be thinking Southwold?

 

Kevin

Edited July 16, 2017 by Nearholmer

[relaxinghobby]

Hi Nearholmer. 

 

I think the London and Blackwall loco's were Manning Wardles, there is a Shapeways 3D kit for that. I'm not sure about the Ravenglass locos. The Southwold Railway locos would be similar locos to Haro Haro, but for the 3 foot gauge. There may be an example surviving in Japan again for 3 foot or 3 foot 6 gauge, but the engines were much more massive than most narrow gauge ones.

[relaxinghobby]

Still flat.

 

I've been working on the etch, drilling out holes to size and marking up any modifications I want to make before I remove the separate components and fold them up.

 

 

 

Some parts are tiny so it is much easier to work on whilst they are part of the larger unit. First picture shows the tools I've been using; tiny drills in a red Microbox, and tapered broaches, all I think from Eileen's Emporium. It's quite a lot of hard work using these tools they are small but still need quite a lot of force so I've mounted them in various drills and pin chucks as it makes them easier to grip. The can of 3 in 1 oil is vital, all this drilling and scraping needs lubrication and the tool steel benefits from being stored with a coating of oil to protect them, but not much. 3 in 1 is good for this use, other household oils like WD40 are OK.

 

I used the small broach to open up the coupling rod holes, you can just see the brassy crank pin in the pin-chuck I'm using to check if the hole is big enough yet.

 

It does not show up so well in this photo but compare the bottom axles holes, one has a brass top hat bearing in it and the other has been opened up with a broach, large enough to fit a top hat, you can see how much bigger the hole is compare to the two unaltered ones at the top. This is finger aching work.

 

 

 

Second photo shows my markings, scratched onto blued areas, I use an ordinary marker pen for this, scratches made in the ink with my sharpened nail show up well. Then use the nail again as a punch to make dimples to start the drilling off. To get the mods I've just held the etch up against my drawing.

Edited July 17, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

Folding up.

 

I've decided on what modifications I'm going to make and marked them out. I've cut off the front and folded the excess down to make an extra cross piece.

 

 

 

Tools on view, the cutting mat because I was scoring the metal with a heavy craft knife, then bending and snapping off unwanted metal.

 

The big drill is to gentle twizzle between the fingers with the drill point in each axle hole, this removes the burrs raised around the axle holes during enlarging with the broach.

Emery board and paper to clean up and polish the metal before soldering.

Pliers and flat screwdriver to fold down various flaps.

The two long sides are folded up into the basic U shape channel of the chassis by holding the piece in a vice jaw, held up to the fold line and them lifting the piece up with a metal ruler held behind to make the metal fold evenly along the fold line.

 

 

 

Dry run before warming up the iron.

 

Folding up this chassis was far easier and quicker than trying to get two separate sides and many cross members all lined up, square and soldered, this is a very promising system.

Edited July 18, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[Edwardian]

 

Haro Haro was a cry to indicate that someone was being accused of a crime, and that everyone should pitch-in to catch them, I think.

 

Blooming clever idea to build a very nice loco. Wasn't it near identical with the locos of the London &Blackwall? And, doesn't someone make the etches? Worsley works? And, weren't the 3ft gauge locos on the Ravenglass and Eskdale basically the same, although 0-6-0T? Or, am I getting mixed up with MW locos? And should I be thinking Southwold?

 

Kevin

 

It is a blooming clever idea.

 

You may recall that we discussed these small Sharp Stewart 2-4-0s on CA, and I reckoned that I'd identified 4 distinct types, 2 of which were used by the Jersey Railway: Post #1346 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107713-castle-aching/page-54&do=findComment&comment=2388545

 

I compiled some notes on the prototype, which may be of interest to any following this excellent build project:

 

The Jersey Railway 2-4-0Ts of 1870

 

Two similar locomotives dating from 1870 were supplied by Sharp Stewart to the Jersey Railway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Railway): 

 

Works No. 2047 of 1870, Haro, Haro

 

Works No. 2048 of 1870, Duke of Normandy

 

The names are original.  The Channel Islands were part of the domain of the Dukes of Normandy and Haro, Haro, would appear to be a reference to a plea to the authorities to restrain a wrong-doer, used in Norman/Channel Islands law.  The plea is traditionally evoked by crying:

 

Haro! Haro! Haro! A l'aide, mon Prince, on me fait tort.

 

As supplied, the locomotives seem to have sported front and back cab sheets.  The arc of rivets is visible on later pictures of both locomotives, marking the attachment of the cab roof sheets.  An apparently temporary addition of wooden side sheets was made to Duke of Normandy.

 

The Jersey Railway was originally a standard gauge line, but converted to narrow gauge in 1884.  The locomotives were thus disposed of and both were put to work on the construction of the Manchester Ship Canal, which was completed in 1894.  Thereafter they were disposed of separately.  Haro Haro was sold to the Woolpit Brick & Tile Co, Suffolk. Duke of Normandy was sold to Sold to Thos W Ward of Sheffield and re-sold in 1897 to the Vulcan Foundry, Newton-le-Willows as a yard shunter. She was scrapped 1904. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Edwardian

[sir douglas]

some pics of the duke that ive collected from the net over time

Edited July 19, 2017 by sir douglas

[Edwardian]

some pics of the duke that ive collected from the net over time

 

North Western is from the second pair of Sharp Stewart 2-4-0Ts that went to Jersey; same size coupled wheels, but longer wheelbase.

 

The Jersey Railway 2-4-0Ts of 1871 & 1872

 

Two further Sharp Stewart 2-4-0Ts were supplied to the Jersey Railway, 2140 of 1871 and 2241 of 1872.  Apparently identical locomotives of a larger design to their predecessors, 2241 seems to have been a replacement for 2140, which was rapidly disposed of to the Tunis Railway in 1872 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Railway).  Of a set of four identical Sharp Stewart locomotives ordered for the Tunis & Goletta Railway in 1871, only two were delivered.  Of the other 2, one (2241) became North Western and the other (2242) became LBSCR No. 53 (see Bradley, Locomotives of the LB&SCR).  Why 2040 went via Jersey is entirely unclear!

 

Works No. 2241 of 1872, North Western

 

Leading wheels 2’9”

 

Coupled wheels 4’

 

Wheelbase 12’5” (see 2578 of 1876 for how the w/b may have been divided)

 

North Western was sold to Jersey Eastern Railway in May 1878, and in 1879 a Dubs 2-4-0T was added to the stud (this Dubs locomotive was sold to North Cornwall Railway in 1884 and thence to Weston, Clevedon and Portishead Railway in 1901. Renamed Clevedon in 1906. Scrapped in 1940). 

 

North Western was re-sold in in 1898 for use in a Scottish Quarry.

[£1.38]

This is an earlier Sharp Stewart 2-4-0T but the drawing is useful in showing parts the other sources dont show - like how big the gap was between the side tanks and the boiler, for example. This one also has a well tank at the rear.

 

[Nearholmer]

There is a plastic "airfix" style kit available for one of these and a rake of coaches, from a Japanese maker, in 1/48 scale. It's been around for c40 years, but is a good set of mouldings. A pal of mine built it as a 4-4-0T for 0-16.5 and I, stupidly, sold my kit on unmade. As a 3'6" gauge loco in 1/48, it scales out nicely as 2'6" one in 1/43.

 

K

[Edwardian]

These are fascinating, and, of course, it is possible to match examples of the various types.  

 

For ease of reference, I'll repost the conclusions I came to on CA:

 

Surveying the examples of which I am aware, thus far I believe that I can identify at least 4 distinct types of Sharp Stewart standard gauge 2-4-0Ts.

 

For my ease of reference I have categorised them based upon the size of the driving wheels, thus:

 

 

Small 4' Class - This I believe should include Works No. 1924 of 1869 (LB&SCR Hayling Island/Inspector), and 2 locomotives supplied to the Jersey Railway, works nos. 2047 and 2048 (Haro Haro & Duke of Normandy).  I have yet to confirm the dimensions of the Jersey twins, but firmly believe that they will turn out to be the same as those of Hayling Island.   

 

 

Large 4' Class - Same wheel sizes but longer w/b for a larger locomotive with wider boiler barrel.  A quartet was ordered, for some reason, by Craven of the LB&SCR on behalf of a Tunisian railway!  Only two made it sandy-side; the Brighton kept one (2242 of 1873, Bishopstone/Fratton) and Jersey got the other (2241 of 1872, North Western).

 

However, I believe that Works No. 2578 of 1876 was also of this 'class'.  This is Watlington & Princes Risborough Railway No.2/GWR No. 1384/Weston, Clevedon and Portishead Railway Hesperus.

 

 

4'6" Class - Of this type are the 5 locomotives delivered to Cambrian Railways between 1864 and 1866.  This is the familiar type for which GEM makes the body for the 3 that survived to be Swindonised.  Mainly Trains did the chassis and Quarryscapes does 3D printed bodies for the 'as-built' and Cambrian re-built versions.

 

EDIT: I remember that our host, Relaxing Hobby, has modelled both the original and rebuilt conditions of the Cambrian class: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/23663-modifiying-kits/.  I particularly admire his early condition build.

 

There is also a locomotive of 1875 owned by the GER that appears to be identical to the original appearance of the Cambrian 5, save for a rather GE looking stove-pipe chimney and her GE number plate.

 

 

5'3" Class - These were the 4 supplied to the Barry Railway in 1889-1890, 2 of which went to the Port Talbot Railway and 3 of which were rebuilt as 2-4-2T.  Also of this type is the similar locomotive supplied to the Neath and Brecon in 1893. 

 

 

The Metropolitan Railway D Class was a group of six 2-4-0Ts built 1894-1895.  To my mind the boiler looks fatter than on the Welsh 5,3".  I don't have dimensions for the D Class, so I don't know whether they are of the same types as the Welsh 5'3" class or whether we have a fifth, distinct, type.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Edwardian

[sir douglas]

ive got a pic off the net of one in tunisia

 

and this one "Seaham" but i dont know where

 

and sorry for hijacking the thread Relaxinghobby

[Edwardian]

ive got a pic off the net of one in tunisia

SS tunisia.jpg

 

and this one "Seaham" but i dont know where

SS seaham oswestry.jpg

 

and sorry for hijacking the thread Relaxinghobby

 

Brilliant to see the Tunisian sister of North Western and the LB&SC Bishopstone/Fratton.

 

Seaham shows the original appearance of the 1860s Cambrian 4'6" class.  You can see below before and after rebuild shots.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Edwardian

[£1.38]

Hrz possibly another with outside cyls, but not sure

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by £1.38

[£1.38]

An early relation by Sharp Bros 1849 for the Monmouthshire Railway

 

 

[Killian keane]

Rather pleasing little engines! I seem to recall there was a 3 1/2" gauge live steam model of Hesperus up on evilbay for quite some time, up until now I hadn't noticed the distinct lineage between her and the brighton Inspector as built

Edited July 19, 2017 by Killian keane

[relaxinghobby]

 

Thanks to Edwardian for the prototype background information on these little engines.

 

You also get some more stuff if you search the web for Sharp Stewart Japan Railways, although for the 3 foot 6 inch or 1,067 mm gauge. The Sharp's loco's there are about the same size but outside frame and there are some survivors too. Some are still in steam.

 

 

 

 

Trouble with wheels, had to press them together in a vice. I think they are Markits, I can not remember when I bought them but getting them onto their axles was hard, they were a very tight fit where the square axle ends fit into the square wheel centres, I had to work alternately pressing them together in a vice a tiny bit, take the wheel/axle unit and tighten up the wheel nuts a little and then back to the vice, a little step at a time, until the wheels where all the way on and up tight against the shouldered axles.

 

Soldered in top hats and reamed to size should I have reamed them first as they where a very tight fit on the alignment rods, those little lengths of aluminium with coned ends there.

 

This is a vital and vertical step if I get this wrong the chassis will never roll smoothly. Every thing must be square and parallel or it's time to de-solder and start over.

Very hard work, took a long evening session.

 

 

Picture shows the upside-down chassis sitting on the instructions, some lines have been ticked of as done. Bits of coloured wire plastic sleeve to keep coupling rods on the pins.

 

Because I moved the leading wheel position back I've got to make good the area around their axle hole, my idea at the moment is to solder those triangular pieces, inside the frames and file out slots.

 

[Nearholmer]

These are the Japanese ones I was thinking of, and they are assuredly inside-framed http://steam.fan.coocan.jp/beginning/23.htm

 

But, confession time ........ the plastic kit that I waxed lyrical about is for the preceding Vulcan design, shown below. Sorry!

 

K

Edited July 21, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

 

Thanks to Edwardian for the prototype background information on these little engines.

 

You also get some more stuff if you search the web for Sharp Stewart Japan Railways, although for the 3 foot 6 inch or 1,067 mm gauge. The Sharp's loco's there are about the same size but outside frame and there are some survivors too. Some are still in steam.

 

 

 

 

Trouble with wheels, had to press them together in a vice. I think they are Markits, I can not remember when I bought them but getting them onto their axles was hard, they were a very tight fit where the square axle ends fit into the square wheel centres, I had to work alternately pressing them together in a vice a tiny bit, take the wheel/axle unit and tighten up the wheel nuts a little and then back to the vice, a little step at a time, until the wheels where all the way on and up tight against the shouldered axles.

 

Soldered in top hats and reamed to size should I have reamed them first as they where a very tight fit on the alignment rods, those little lengths of aluminium with coned ends there.

 

This is a vital and vertical step if I get this wrong the chassis will never roll smoothly. Every thing must be square and parallel or it's time to de-solder and start over.

Very hard work, took a long evening session.

 

P1010130x.JPG

 

Picture shows the upside-down chassis sitting on the instructions, some lines have been ticked of as done. Bits of coloured wire plastic sleeve to keep coupling rods on the pins.

 

Because I moved the leading wheel position back I've got to make good the area around their axle hole, my idea at the moment is to solder those triangular pieces, inside the frames and file out slots.

 

 

Excellent progress.  One day I, too, may be this brave (though probably not this competent!)

[sir douglas]

These are the Japanese ones I was thinking of, and they are assuredly inside-framed http://steam.fan.coocan.jp/beginning/23.htm

 

But, confession time ........ the plastic kit that I waxed lyrical about is for the preceding Vulcan design, shown below. Sorry!

 

K

 

that was built by Vulcan,

 

the sharp stewerts were similar

 

this is a survivor in a museum

[Nearholmer]

Indeed; that's what I was saying.

[sir douglas]

i really should have read the whole post, i didnt see the second sentence 

[PhilJ W]

I too had one of those Japanese kits, I paid £4 for it as one coach and some parts of the other coaches were missing. I did sell it on but instantly regretted it.

[sir douglas]

i bought one just for the coaches though i ended up using most of the loco parts as well for something else

Edited July 22, 2017 by sir douglas

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

 

Showing the outside frame triangular pieces of the 14XX kit, soldered inside the frame to give a better shape for the repositioned leading axle slots of the Sharp Stewart. Driving wheels are marked up before removal so I can put them back in the same positions. Soldering tools are some sprung hair clips and a piece of de-populated circuit board for soldering on as it is reasonably heat proof. If you solder on wood there will be a constant smell of smouldering and charring. Plastic cutting mats just melt. I think this circuit board was a computer expansion board in it's earlier life. There is nothing so transient and old and unusable than a computer component, so now it has found a gentle and useful retirement job.

 

….........

 

I wish I had done this earlier.

I soldered in the triangular pieces before drilling and cutting out the axle holes then some how my marking up got a bit skew-wiff. Holding the chassis firmly and steady for filling is hard, you can not really tighten up the vice because basically the chassis is a hollow box and easily crushed or squeezed out of shape. So here I have a tool makers vice, the jaws just set wide to stop the chassis from twisting but not gripping it hard and a piece of wood underneath to support the metal. I can now file with enough force to be effective. The slots had to be opened up towards the front and I've ended up with oversized keyhole shaped slots which is fine for the suspension and springing system I intend to use. The wheels are to check the axles fit in the slots and each slot matches the one on the other side. Not all 1/16 th inch axle are the same.

 

I had to re-ink the metal to scratch out the new lines, now the top hats are fixed in it is more difficult to hold the ruler and set square correctly, they keep slipping. In retrospect I wish I had done more marking out and cut the slots when the chassis was still in the flat.

 

I think I got the tool makers vice at a car boot sale and had to soak it in car de-ruster gloop to get it usable. A useful tool. Many sizes of this type of hand held vice are available from Eileen's or Squires.

 

…............

 

 

This time the odds and spare wheel box has not provided the new loco with the right type of wheel. The spoked wheel is about right at 10 mm diameter but I need a plated wheel for electrical pickup purposes, the blackening is no good for electrical conduction. The solid brassy one on the left can be used as I develop the chassis.

 

The next step are the details. Guard irons and then brake gear.

Also I need to think about the gear box and were to put the motor, this loco has a tiny boiler, nowhere to hide anything, maybe I can put the motor vertically in the cab and hide it with the crew. I want to get a flywheel in too.