Jersey Railway, tiny 2-4-0 tank

[relaxinghobby]

Loco 1300

 

 

Footplate built up from two layers of black p-card to match the shape below the 14xx tank sides.

 

 

A quick rummage through the bits and pieces box to see if there are any parts or body moldings I can adapt to

this model. The prototype has a large boiler for this size of loco. It is larger than the 14xx one from the box.

 

It is the same diameter as the one on the Triang Hornby Nelly/Polly body, but it's not worth cutting that off

as as it would be too short and would leave a space between the cab and tanks. I have a plastic pen body which

is about right but then I noticed it has a taper to it.

Looks like I will have to roll my own, note to self; look for the metal pipe I can use as a former.

Edited October 7, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

Here's the boiler for 1300, I've used the tapered pen body, sawn it lengthwise

and glued in some very slightly wedge shape plastic pieces to push the fatness out

and counter the slightly tapered shape. Lightly elastic banded around a piece

of pie until the glue has hardened.

 

Sorting through my collection of pen bodies for a suitably sized one for the much

smaller Jersey tank's boiler.

Edited October 7, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

I've marked out and cut up the GWR tender top molding to make the tank sides, being careful

with the saw and trying to preserve the trademark tank top flair.

This exercise, at last, gives an impression of what the final size and shape are going to be like.

It reminds us of how small this loco is in a way that the chassis on its own does not.

The tanks pieces are too small to easily hold whilst sawing, here the little tool makers vice is

good to hold the workpieces whilst sawing.

[relaxinghobby]

 

1300's boiler preparation

 

 

Elastic band arrangement to hold in strengthening strip of curved p-card on

the inside of the boiler join. I'll let the joint set hard before I dare take a

saw to it. To cut it to fit against the side tanks.

 

 

It seemed a simple plan at the outset, cutting up this tender top molding to make

tank sides with a flared top. Now I'm actually trying to do it, cutting all the

little pieces out to get sides,front and back is much harder than I thought it

would be.

Maybe it would have been easier to properly scratch build the tanks from plastic

sheet and then somehow add the flared tops.

 

The picture shaow half made tank sides balanced on the footplate. The pen body boiler

is the right diameter, it was very small on the prototype loco.

 

The toolmaker's clamp is handy for holding smaller pieces whilst sawing or cutting them

with a craft knife.

[DLT]

Crikey thats small,

Nice job, Dave.

[relaxinghobby]

 

My efforts are getting a bit dissipated or watered down between three different models.

 

That's modeling time divided by three now I've finished the side project of the tiny PD&SWJR brake van on

another thread.

 

So recently I've been preparing parts for these three plastic locos. Hunting through boxes of spare parts

I've found the partially completed green one that is a stalled project from some time ago.

 

From the left is number 1300, I've been cutting up the boiler tube and smoke box, which is a cut-down

Triang Polly and a discarded part from the left-hand green one, the spectacle plate is from an Airfix J94 saddle tank.

 

Then with Haro Haro in the middle I've been trying to locate the footplate on the chassis in the exact place it

needs to be. A small bolt fixes it to the hole provided at the front of the chassis by the designer.

The footplate will need some packing between it and the chassis to adjust it to the correct height.

 

And the green one on the right is a model made from a chopped up Polly body sitting on a tiny motor bogie

from a Bachmann US type bogie switcher. It is a meant to be KESR Tenterden.

 

Do I put this back into store or work on it alongside the other two?

 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

At this stage, we are just making a kit of parts that later we hope will be stuck together to make a

loco shaped body. There are two main problems; how to make it hollow enough to fit over the motor and

gears and how to end up with a body strong enough to withstand handling and life on the layout.

 

Tricky with these smaller models but if the 009 people can do it it must be possible with larger 00 engines.

 

Unlike more recent prototype you can't go and see one in a museum or steam railway and check

the details, the few photos available don't seem to show much or anything of what's inside the cab.

For instance, where did the tanks end, did they protrude into the cab area? It seems the working space

for the crew could be very cramped especially for one trying to swing a shovel.

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

 

Recent additions to my kit which was originally the cut up body of an Airfix

first generation 14XX body, I had cut it down to make the smaller 517 class, it didn't work

so I had the parts lying around.

 

The boiler is fattened by wrapping 10thou/0.25 mm thin plasticard sheet.

The pen body I've used does not seem to be affected by liquid poly so I've

used superglue and that has worked.

 

Cab finished with plasticard sides added to an old Airfix kit specticle

plate

 

Built up the insides of the tanks at the cab end so later when the glue

has hardened I can cut out the raised piece, a hangover from it's 517 class days.

 

Sellection of buffers and chimneys I could used and a homemade reversing lever.

 

I'll use this bunker, the corners need carefully rounding with a coarse file.

[relaxinghobby]

 

The Haro Haro tanks kit of parts, everything is smaller than the 1300 model above, so

harder to hide the motor.

 

The hardest part is around the rear of the motor which protrudes back into the

cab

 

The pen body is having strips of p-card wrapped around it to build up the shape of

the fire and smoke boxes. I'll cut the ends off when the glue has set and I've

worked out how much to cut off the bottom to clear the motor gubbins.

Edited October 29, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[DLT]

Unlike more recent prototype you can't go and see one in a museum or steam railway and check

the details, the few photos available don't seem to show much or anything of what's inside the cab.

For instance, where did the tanks end, did they protrude into the cab area? It seems the working space

for the crew could be very cramped especially for one trying to swing a shovel.

 

P1010010a.JPG

 

Looking at the drawings and photos on page one, I suggest that your sketch is pretty much correct in the arrangement of tanks and bunker. 

As for shovel swinging space, crew comfort/convenience wasn't considered much of a priority back then!

 

All the best, Dave.

[John_Hughes]

Looking at the drawings and photos on page one, I suggest that your sketch is pretty much correct in the arrangement of tanks and bunker. 

As for shovel swinging space, crew comfort/convenience wasn't considered much of a priority back then!

 

All the best, Dave.

 

In Great Western days apparently new firemen on the Vale of Rheidol locos were told to forget the GWR standard issue shovels and to pop round to Woolworths and buy themselves an ordinary domestic one.

 

That would work here too, and I'd guess that was pretty standard advice on a lot of locos with small fireboxes and not much room in the cab.

[RJS1977]

I believe one VoR fireman managed to get his shovel wedged between the cab floor and roof!

[RJS1977]

Drawings evolving

 

The problem is how wide are the footplates, These older loco often have a very wide look to then in isolation from other rolling stock because the boilers are so small. This is a sort of optical illussion and has me confused but I'm alright now or I though I was. I was using the L. Derbyshire drawing of Hesperus on the Colenol Stephens web site as a reference. The cardboard mock up body I made earlier using this drawing just looked too wide even allowing for the narrow guage effect of the 00 wheels.

 

It's even difficult to describe the subtle effect of of all this.

 

I thought I could just use the Haro Haro drawing for the side and L. Derbyshire's Hesperus for the front and back. Not so because the buffers are too far apart distorting the whole front look especially with that wide look these little locos have.

 

I've sliced out two vertical sections between the boiler and the tanks and bought the sides in I used old fashioned scissors and glue to do my cut and paste, any one more adept on the computer can do their cut and paste digitally.

 

I've used the new narrower drawings as a pattern to copy to add end and plan elevation to the side view we have so far of Haro Haro

 

I'll go down to the library and use their photocopier to reduce the drawing to 4mm scale.

 

Once I've worked out how to upload these you can see.

 

Trying to put in details from the few photographs that have survived of these old engines can be frustrating because you can't see the bits clearly or one of the proud enginemen is standing in front blocking the view. For instance which side is the brake wheel and pillar on? We can see how far back it is from the drawing and the brake roding in the pictures. It's somewhere to the right of center but no photo shows it clearly so it's going to have to be a guesstimate.

 

Other unknown quantities are how far do the steps stick out?

Reasonably sure about width of footplate, most engines of the period had 7 foot 6 inch wide ones.

 

My drawing was looking good, I had printed it as big as I could on the sheet of paper, we must be accustomed to looking at things in the chosen scale and it was not until I reduced it and had a print to 4mm scale that the footplate looks underside some more development of the drawing is needed.

 

A yellow background is meant to be easier on the eyes for reading than a white background, trouble is the effect is not very even.

 

240tSSsmallHaroHaro-lower.jpeg

Warning this drawing is still not a reliable rendering of the loco.

 

Would you be able to confirm what the scale of this drawing is? I'd always assumed the JWR locos were approximately the same size as 14XXs (though no real reason to think that).

[Echo]

14xx locos are actually huge compared with pre-grouping era small tank locos like this one

[Edwardian]

Would you be able to confirm what the scale of this drawing is? I'd always assumed the JWR locos were approximately the same size as 14XXs (though no real reason to think that).

 

14xx locos are actually huge compared with pre-grouping era small tank locos like this one

 

Think of it rather as closer to a Terrier, with the front coupled wheels replaced with smaller leading wheels, but probably a little lower even than that. 

[relaxinghobby]

Hi RJS1977, as Echo and Edwardian say, these locos where tiny compared with later ones like the GWR 14XX.
For my Haro Haro sketch I used the known dimension of 22 mm for the coupled wheelbase and 14mm for the
buffer height, but that is less certain as as earlier heights where 3 foot 3 inch, on later vehicles it
was 3ft 6inch, but this dimension also depends on how saggy the springs are. A minefield if you look at photos of mixed rolling
stock parked buffer to buffer.
If you are printing out a drawing to your scale make the coupled wheelbase 5 foot 6 or 22 mm in 00, lucky
the Brynkits 3mm chassis was the correct wheelbase. That is an indicator of the smaller size of these two 2-4-0
locos, I can use the smaller Brynkits 3mm or TT chassis intended the for GWR 14xx and Metro tanks, 25% smaller than the 4mm or 00 versions but just right for these tiny guys.

Edited March 14, 2018 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

 

If you have the patience it's worth trawling through the second-hand stalls at exhibitions, You may find some

old junk that someday may suit your era and style of modeling. That black chimney and the brass one which is

part of the brass sprue that's in the clamp. Also, the safety valve bonnet sitting on the loco.

 

I've committed myself to the cab interior style, I've gone for, tanks in cab cramped version. Black plastic

mushroom shape at the bottom left is going to be the backhead detail, I'll glue some plastic lumps on for surface

detail.

 

Going along with the theme of using up the bits from the failed 517 tank conversion, I'm using up the bunker with

the tall back. Sort of looks right. To radialise the corners on it and similar plastic shapes I like to use

a big coarse file like the one here. Behind that, top right is part of jewellers saw good for cutting through

that hard brass of the detail sprue.

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

Some progress this week, got the bunker on and I hope that it's set to square on the footplate.

And I've been preparing the buffer and steps,the drawing had the steps too far back, with reference

to the few photos available on the net they will be under the cab entrance, also checked photos for rivet

detail on the buffers beams.

 

Don't worry about the chimney it's not fixed, I still need to find one that is taller, number 1300 had a very

tall chimney because the footplate and boiler were so low it had to reach higher to get the smoke above

the carriages.

 

Bill the driver there is 24mm tall and can see through the middle of the cab windows, should I raise the

cab floor height for smaller drivers? 24mm or 6 foot was above average for the 19th century. I shall add

more detail as I go along, referencing what I can from the photos.

 

Backhead detail is a bit imaginary, is a pressure gauge too luxurious for the period, apart from that

I have tried to represent fire door, guage glasses and a shelf for tea and oil cans.

Edited November 5, 2017 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

 

 

I've got to the stage with No 1300-ish of adding details like tool boxes, handrails and sorting out a suitable chimney, it was an unusually tall one on this prototype.

 

The blue and green chimney bits in the middle are the tops and bottoms from Hornby- Triang- Nelly- Polly bodies, I have successfully added middle bits to extend them on other models in the past but can't seem to get them straight this time. There are other bits of tube lying about and cylinders from ball point pens that might do. The heavier chimney castings from commercial model parts suppliers are too big for this prototype and would look wrong compared to the photos, the few pictures on the WWW are the final arbiter.

 

Other bits there are some spring from model trucks that will do for the above footplate springs over the leading wheels, also you can see buffers and tool boxes.

 

Beading around the bunker and and cab edges is added from strips cut from 10 thou' styrene, once the glue is set hard I can sand them to a round section.

All this stuff is fiddly but is needed to give visual texture to the model.

[relaxinghobby]

 

Chimney not glued yet, just placed there.

 

 

 

Some more progress, cab side beading all glued on, holes marked and drilled for hand and grab rails.

I finally got the top and bottom of the chimney back together and in line with the gap filled.

After several wonky attempts I used a sprung wooden clothes peg to hold and align them whilst the filler putty set.

One of the round grooves in the peg form fitting around the rope washing line is just right for holding a cylindrical thing like a chimney.

 

I need a very tall chimney on this model. Number 1300 was a tiny loco, it needed a tall chimney to get the smoke away above the roofs of the coaches.

I need now to think about a front wheel and motor/gearbox combination.

All that cab detail has filled out a bit too much between the wheels, some material will have to be somehow removed from inside the wheel space.

 

It's a very fat boiler, I may be able to get a motor ahead of the driving wheels?

Edited March 2, 2018 by relaxinghobby

[relaxinghobby]

The Jersey tank Haro Haro project has kinda stalled. I got stuck on hide to hide the motor and all it's associated gubbins.

Maybe more accurate drawings will help? so I've been over in the CAD Printing and Laser Cutting section trying to learn to use the drawing program Inkscape.

Lots of pretty colours means all the different parts to be distinguished from one another.

I'm having trouble with the complex curves of the cab roof and spectacle plates at the moment.

Edited April 17, 2018 by relaxinghobby

[DLT]

I thought you had made a pretty good job of getting the motor in.  Looks like you've added a flywheel?  This could be partly hidden by driver and fireman, one each side in the cab doorway, and with the flywheel blackened it shouldn't be too obvious.  If you can't live with that situation you may to just have to lose the flywheel.  I would be testing the running with or without the flywheel, to see how much you need it.

 

Getting the cab right might just be a case of trial and error with plasticard or card/thick paper. Getting the curve right and then the shape of the cutouts.  It might take a few attempts before you get it right.  I would be tempted to make the final roof out of brass sheet if you can find some, you may find plasticard to be a bit fragile for that job.

 

Its looking good!

All the best, Dave.

[relaxinghobby]

Thanks Dave the biggest trouble is that the boiler is such a small diameter and does not allow much space to hide anything. I'm very keen on flywheels, with this motor and gearbox setup is goes right back into the rear bunker space so driver and fireman will be there to hide it, does anyone do fat figures for maximum hide?

I have a method for making plastic arched cab rooves I  built one for my Cambrian Sharpie, a much bigger loco with a bigger boiler.

 

[DLT]

Thanks Dave the biggest trouble is that the boiler is such a small diameter and does not allow much space to hide anything. I'm very keen on flywheels, with this motor and gearbox setup is goes right back into the rear bunker space so driver and fireman will be there to hide it, does anyone do fat figures for maximum hide?

I have a method for making plastic arched cab rooves I  built one for my Cambrian Sharpie, a much bigger loco with a bigger boiler.

 

240tSScam58.jpg

 

What a beauty!  Is this loco detailed on RMweb anywhere?

Many thanks, Dave.

[relaxinghobby]

I found my working drawing here, to fit on a Mainly Trains chassis.

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/132890-how-good-are-drawings/   #24

Edited April 18, 2018 by relaxinghobby