W&T Palethorpes' 6-wheeler

[Prometheus]

A number of you will recognise this, some will have even built one...

 

 

Acquired very cheaply via eBay, it is the latest small rock in what has become an unfeasably large mountain of kits that I need to build. However, it is an absolute gem, comprising wood, acetate, plastic card, white-metal and brass, and will be assembled with glue, nails and screws. There are all sorts of construction problems to overcome but it's real old-fashioned modelling and I'm really looking forward to making a start.

 

The floor is pine - or some similar softwood - and those white-metal castings which require fixing to it do not have holes large enough for small screws, hence a need for panel-pins or similar to enable attachment. I have dismantled old kits before which were assembled in this way, to scavenge spares.

 

However, the floor as supplied is over is terms of both length and width and also has a very slight warp. It is thus unusable. I'll substitute either 3mm ply [if I can find some at the club] or failing that, 3mm plastic sheet. I'd particularly like to use ply though, to be true to the spirit of original.

 

The white-metal castings are generally quite good but the acetate 'tunnel' which is the body shell will be tricky. It, too, is overlength by around 3mm and is very flexible/flimsy [but not flexible enough to lie flat to scribe and cut]. Further, it will be difficult to attach it to the white-metal ends as instructed because there is little surface to glue it to [a shallow rebate on each cast end]. Consequently, it's already obvious that it cannot be easily made in the way that the poor instructions suggest. I've found a way around that though. The roof is a plastic card overlay. It first needs to be cut to size and then formed into a curve. I have no idea how to attach it to the acetate yet though: impact adhesive? Maybe. Not a preference however.

 

Having sourced some 3mm ply, I binned the original floor and cut a new one: I was pleased to still be able to use wood. I have had to use plastic strip for solebars however, a disappointment, particularly as it had to be super-glued to the floor. Once painted though it'll look the part.

 

The first two photos show the underside of the floor with the first set of W-irons being fitted. I've used 3x1mm brass nails with the domed heads filled down [some more filing needed though]. Both W-irons are fitted loosely at present in order that the correct spacing for the wheels can be determined. The casting in the centre is for the middle axle. I've cut off the pin-points and it'll float freely to negotiate curves and points. At least, that's the intention.....

 

 

 

The next photo shows the acetate body shell. Cutting it to length was really tricky and it's somewhat bendy, too. According to the instructions it should be fitted to the ends before anything else is done to the assembly. I'm going to leave it until the chassis is complete however, with the ends added, before attaching it. I'll also glue some L-section mouldings along the upper surface of the floor to give the shell something additional to adhere too: the rebates in the end castings simply do not have sufficient surface area for a strong 'stick'. Doing it this way will provide a strong, robust frame for the shell to drop onto, something it would not have had had I followed the instructions. I'm also using Gorilla Glue for the first time.

 

 

 

I've yet to determine how to attach the roof and in fact what material to use. Brass sheet would be best but I always find it tricky to cut. It also has very sharp edges. I'll start with plastic card [as supplied]. Shellacked card might be a suitable alternative, and would certainly be in keeping with the 50+ years age of the kit.

 

The pre-printed sides are quite floppy soft plastic affairs. They are very slightly embossed which is correct; the surface detail on the original wagons was nearly flush [which makes the Hornby offering over-detailed].

 

Again, I'll have to ignore the instructions with regard to attaching them. As described, their attachment would be the penultimate job. I can only see impact adhesive as being the effective glue for this job though, and as that requires a degree of pressing and smoothing, that would be impossible if the instructions were followed. There would be a near-certainty that the body shell would become detached from the ends. So, I'll attach them to the body shell before it is fitted as it will allow handling and supporting. The sides will also need GWR branding and a running number to be applied [Pressfix to the rescue here]. I'll only be using the sides and not the ends [which will be sprayed black].

 

 

Next, a shot of the underframe with the W irons and battery boxes loosely fitted. I've been quite impressed by the quality of the underframe castings and a reasonably accurate chassis is possible for this kit. There's a lot more metal-work to add though....

 

 

In spite of the generally good quality of the white-metal castings, a close inspection of the brake mechanism components made me decide not to use them and substitute some etched brass and better castings in their place. I have retained but modified slightly the vacuum cylinder. 

 

It’s not even wholly clear from the ‘instructions’ how the original brake parts were to be assembled. The drawing in the photograph is the most detailed part of the instruction and was intended as a template to be cut out and stuck to the underside of the wooden floor. This is problematic however as a number of parts need to be glued to the floor. I don’t like glueing to paper, as suggested, as it risks becoming detached later. Consequently, I used it simply as a rough guide for component placement. You can see also the parts which I decided not to use.

 

 

The next photo shows the new brake gear in place, together with the dynamo, control box and various other parts. The centre W-irons have been fitted as they are cosmentic only, the axle being held in the centre casting. The rest of the W-irons have been fitted down one side only so that I can test wheel fit before attaching the others. A spray of primer will follow in due course, and then matt black.

 

 

I've been staring at the chassis for a while and have realised that the brake gear, as fitted, may perhaps be incorrect for this wagon. No matter: it'll stay and when painted it'll look fine. I have also to fit some thin wire pull-rods for the brake-gear and, in due course, truss rods under the W-irons.

 

Since posting this last photograph I have removed the white-metal V-hangers and replaced them with less fragile and slightly more-to-scale plastic ones from an old Ratio kit. The originals were bending too easily and one finally broke.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Prometheus

[BernardTPM]

Very much in the same style as the Mopok CCT and coach kits; indeed it wouldn't surprise to find that they were designed by the same person. Given this is the first half of the 1970s Plastikard was one of the modern 'in' modelling materials being used in place of shellaced card; there were even early etched brass kits by George Alan around.

Edited July 26, 2017 by BernardTPM

[hmrspaul]

T'is a pity Adrian Swain is no longer of this parish. He may be able to throw some light on the origins of the whitemetal castings. He did all the Mopok ones, but I suspect these aren't his. Didn't PC Models also have this style of construction? A firm IIRC came from the West Midlands.

 

I suspect Araldite would have been the adhesive of choice - glue pretty well anything! I don't think Cyano was available - well used anyway - until Mopok introduced it. Tony Dyer found it at the hospital he was electrician at, used for glueing skin together (and been working ever since!)

 

Paul

[Il Grifone]

P.C. models (or at least the one I assembled - a GWR 'toplight') had the same sort of construction, but used a plastic sheet frame* to which the pre-printed plastic sides were stuck, rather than wood. The lack of relief is rather a serious downside on a panelled coach. I keep meaning to do something about it....

 

I have a Mopok Hawksworth coach bought second hand some years ago (assembled but falling apart again). Subsequent releases have consigned it to the bottom of the 'to do' pile!

 

* Floor, solebars and preformed roof with cast ends. The underframe trussing was made from wire.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Il Grifone

[Prometheus]

Very much in the same style as the Mopok CCT and coach kits; indeed it wouldn't surprise to find that they were designed by the same person. Given this is the first half of the 1970s Plastikard was one of the modern 'in' modelling materials being used in place of shellaced card; there were even early eatched brass kits by George Alan around.

 

There are two Mopok CCTs on eBay currently, one for £40, the other a penny less [the 6-wheeler cost me just over £12]. As you say, they appear identical to the W&T model in terms of design. 

 

Tony

[hayfield]

I bought one many years ago, the sides and ends had got distorted, so scratch built the sides and ends in plasticard and finished in LMS livery

[Prometheus]

T'is a pity Adrian Swain is no longer of this parish. He may be able to throw some light on the origins of the whitemetal castings. He did all the Mopok ones, but I suspect these aren't his. Didn't PC Models also have this style of construction? A firm IIRC came from the West Midlands.

 

I suspect Araldite would have been the adhesive of choice - glue pretty well anything! I don't think Cyano was available - well used anyway - until Mopok introduced it. Tony Dyer found it at the hospital he was electrician at, used for glueing skin together (and been working ever since!)

 

Paul

 

I have just fitted the outer wheel-sets and banged everything into place: tiny ball-pein hammer, nails and a drift! The chassis runs very smoothly in brass bearings but the centre axle - as feared - rides a little too high. This will be easy enough to adjust though.

 

Whilst assembling the chassis, I noticed a very - very - faint manufacturer's impression on one of the W-iron/axle-box units: Kenline.

 

So there, maybe, is your answer Paul.

 

Tony

[TheSignalEngineer]

 A firm IIRC came from the West Midlands.

 

W & T shop was a few minutes walk from Tyseley Shed. Used to visit there when I lived nearby.

[Il Grifone]

I have just fitted the outer wheel-sets and banged everything into place: tiny ball-pein hammer, nails and a drift! The chassis runs very smoothly in brass bearings but the centre axle - as feared - rides a little too high. This will be easy enough to adjust though.

 

Whilst assembling the chassis, I noticed a very - very - faint manufacturer's impression on one of the W-iron/axle-box units: Kenline.

 

So there, maybe, is your answer Paul.

 

Tony

 

 

The G.W.R. axlebox is a clue. Kenline (like K's) were keen on these. (The Kenline parts are of considerably better quality....)

[hmrspaul]

I have just fitted the outer wheel-sets and banged everything into place: tiny ball-pein hammer, nails and a drift! The chassis runs very smoothly in brass bearings but the centre axle - as feared - rides a little too high. This will be easy enough to adjust though.

 

Whilst assembling the chassis, I noticed a very - very - faint manufacturer's impression on one of the W-iron/axle-box units: Kenline.

 

So there, maybe, is your answer Paul.

 

Tony

Thanks yes, Kenline is what I had suspected. Although I have a lot of Kenline 'bits' I don't recollect the kits - a bit too early for me. Weren't they in thick card?

 

Thanks also for the confirmation of PC models - didn't they have LNWR coaches. As mentioned not a suitable technique for panelled coaches but Mopok realised it was ideal for reproducing coaches where the windows were only inset by the depth of a sheet of steel, so only a thick paint finish was required to reproduce this in 4mm - so they stayed with the then modern Mk 1s, Hawksworths, late Staniers etc. ABS followed up with some BR suburbans as the failure of Mopok/Kemilway left him with a very large stock of castings. Adrian remains aggrieved about this, to this day. I've got 4 (I think) of the Suburbans unopened in the workroom. Used the excellent Tri-ang Mk1 bogie.

 

Paul

Edited July 18, 2017 by hmrspaul

[BernardTPM]

Yes, PC Models did do LNWR coaches, Paul, initially in LNWR livery, but I think they did them in fully lined LMS colours too. PC Models also did the smaller 2mm scale Cavendish coach kits for W&H Models that latter became the basis for the Ultima Models range. There the bogies and trussing were etched brass with extruded aluminium for the floor/lower sides and the roof. The GWR Toplights in full GWR livery looked quite effective, the thickness of the black panelling print worked quite well in half the scale.

George Alan sold 'IS12' for his etched brass kits; I think that was a cyanoacrylate glue.

It was an interesting time with lots of different materials and ideas being tried out, but sometimes a nightmare to glue together the disparate materials.

[Prometheus]

Thanks yes, Kenline is what I had suspected. Although I have a lot of Kenline 'bits' I don't recollect the kits - a bit too early for me. Weren't they in thick card?

.

Paul

 

That'll be these. Bought out of curiousity a while back. The castings are nice and will be used, but I doubt that I'll get around to building the kits themselves. They'll remain in the archive.

 

 

 

 

 

But then, I've built sillier things....

 

Tony

[Coach bogie]

I have built a couple of these. I used the plastic shell and evo-stick to the white metal with much scoring to give a grip for the glue. Not fallen apart yet.

 

Mine has a fixed axle at one end, rocker/compensated at the other and the centre wheel runs in a piece of brass tube floating on steel wire.  I have the LMS on on the shelf in the 'one day' pile.

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited July 18, 2017 by Coach bogie

[Prometheus]

Ah, rain-strips for the roof! Thank you Mike, another task to add to the list. How did you attach the overlays? Impact adhesive?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[Coach bogie]

Ah, rain-strips for the roof! Thank you Mike, another task to add to the list. How did you attach the overlays? Impact adhesive?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

yes. Evostick thinly spread.

 

Good image showing rainstrips here

 

http://littlewestern.com/1/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Palethorpes_Van_3.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Edited July 18, 2017 by Coach bogie

[Il Grifone]

That'll be these. Bought out of curiousity a while back. The castings are nice and will be used, but I doubt that I'll get around to building the kits themselves. They'll remain in the archive.

 

 

 

 

 

But then, I've built sillier things....

 

Tony

 

 

I built these two many years ago (I was at university and should have been studying - something I always found I could find things to do which were more fun*). I was quite pleased with the 3 plank, but the card was not really stong enough - it split into layers very easily. Later I found it was actually a Midland wagon (through the S&DJR IIRC - The LSWR certainly acquired Midland 5 planks this way) and  superior models of this were available. I believe the bracket shown on the ends of the sides is actually a wooden block which serves as a door bumper. I seem to recall it was scrapped through the floor warping. The LBSCR wagon was even less successful!

 

* Like watching paint dry....

Edited July 19, 2017 by Il Grifone

[Prometheus]

.....which has pretty much convinced me to leave well alone. I'll use the castings though.

 

Tony

[Prometheus]

The chassis is pretty near complete now, requiring just brake shoes and end steps [and weathering!]. I plan to remove the brake pull however and re-route it under the axle, bending it to reach the lever at the end. It is remarkably free-running now that the centre axle has been adjusted.

 

 

 

Tony

 

[Il Grifone]

That looks a lot better than Hornby's underframe!  

 

I keep looking at mine and debating, "Rebuild?  Bin?"

 

For collectability you can use the Kenline castings for something useful and keep the card and wood parts together - the first kits came less castings (hence the price discrepancy, I think, between 2/6d and 6/8½d - There wasn't that much inflation in the sixties. (I could comment further, but, seeing politics is banned, for once I'll shut up!)

 

There have been better kits since for all Kenline's offerings with the possible exceptions of the LMS (ex L&Y) fish van and LNER (ex GCR?) van. The GWR and the other LNER van are identical apart from livery and (not much like either) and the GWR fruit van is actually a MINK D goods van (with end shutters). I fitted mine on an HD underframe (it was better than their tinplate version), but it got binned as soon as the KIrk kit appeared.

 

As well as the SR opens (a second attempt at these things!), I built the LMS (ex MR) coke wagon (on a Peco underframe), the MINK D and the GWR van (Dublo underframes)  and gave up on the fish van. All have gone to the great marshalling yard in the sky.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Il Grifone

[chrisf]

Does anyone know, or have plausible theories, why cast battery boxes have fronts and sides but no bottoms or backs?

 

Chris

[Fat Controller]

Does anyone know, or have plausible theories, why cast battery boxes have fronts and sides but no bottoms or backs?

 

Chris

Saves metal?

[cctransuk]

I have, unbuilt, the BR version of the Palethorpes six-wheeled van - kit G1.

 

If anyone would like to acquire it, please PM me.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited July 20, 2017 by cctransuk

[Prometheus]

Saves metal?

 

 

I wonder. It's a shame really, it wouldn't have added that much additional weight. ironically, the backs are detailed, too.

 

 

I have, unbuilt, the BR version of the Palethorpes six-wheeled van - kit G1.

 

If anyone would like to acquire it, please PM me.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Thank you for the offer John but once bitten, once bitten....

 

Actually, that's quite a good name for a rural station. It'll go in the book.

 

Tony

 

Tony

[Il Grifone]

Does anyone know, or have plausible theories, why cast battery boxes have fronts and sides but no bottoms or backs?

 

Chris

 

Plastic ones have the same failings. It's probably something to do with the moulding/casting process. They usually also have a non-prototypical taper for the same reason. The previously mentioned saving of metal is an added bonus.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Il Grifone

[BernardTPM]

Does anyone know, or have plausible theories, why cast battery boxes have fronts and sides but no bottoms or backs?

 

Chris

 

Saves metal?

 

Yes, it does save metal (and some of these old kits could turn out rather heavy), but castings that are too thick tend to get porous which gives a very rough surface.