Dear Hattons: Time for a "proper" Autocoach please.

[Seanem44]

Hattons, if you are reading, I think there is sufficient demand out there (whether vocal or not) for the commissioning of a proper GWR autocoach.  I know there are some out there on the market.  Hornby has one, but it is dated.  Not only that, it is incorrect for most of the liveries it wears.

 

I think its time we had a proper pre-nationalization autocoach.  I know I would pay for one. Or two.  Or three.  Something that fits correctly in the 1930s and 1940s.

[Hilux5972]

Bachmann's Hawksworth Autocoach doesn't fit the bill?

[chris p bacon]

Hattons, if you are reading, I think there is sufficient demand out there (whether vocal or not) 

 

So that covers the silent 500-1000 minimum required for production.

 

If they didn't want to proceed with the King then I don't hold out any hope for an Autocoach.

[tomparryharry]

Given Hornby are into platitudes for well-executed rolling stock, I wonder if they could be tempted into producing an autocoach themselves? I'd guess most GW & BRW modellers would pay top dollar for a decent RTR autocoach.

 

How about it?

 

Ian.

[GWR8700]

Bachmann's Hawksworth Autocoach doesn't fit the bill?

 

A great model, but it doesn't fit the time period for a lot of modellers

[woodenhead]

Kernow are doing the Steam motor which later converted into Autocoaches.

 

Might be a few years away but they look like the best approach to a retailer commission.

[Mark Saunders]

There is the NEXT WISHLIST for you to vote on or get enough of you together and crowd fund it!

 

Mark Saunders

[The Johnster]

I agree that there is a big hole in autocoach provision at the moment from rtr and kit manufacturers.  The Hornby A27/30 (it has elements of both diagrams but is numbered as an A30) has it's roots in the ancient Airfix model, a game changer in it's day but a bit dated now, and the Baccy Hawksworth A38 is not suitable for pre 1949 layouts.  The GW liveried one they produce is correct for an incorrectly liveried preserved example, if that makes sense.

 

A panelled auto trailer is not easy to produce by scratchbuilding, though the matchboarded one are not so hard and I have a long term plan to have a go at an A9.  But there are plenty of panelled ones to chose from, and I would suggest any manufacturer or commissioner thinking about this to have a look at the A26, the most numerous type, available in liveries from Edwardian Lake to BR crimson, and with a variety of bogies.  It is a 70 footer wit a good bit of overhang at the ends, which might tell against it with regard to no.2 or less setrack curves.  My personal wishlist would be for a Diagram N, another long lived type with a wide geographical spread but a 59 footer easier to accommodate within setrack geometry; this is the trailer that Dapol have inherited from Lionheart and are putting out in 7mm.  If D were to do this in 00, or commission one from someone like Hatton's, I'd be as far towards the front of the queue as I could manage!  

 

If anyone can be persuaded to commission a pre-grouping era trailer (all the purpose built ones and the railmotor conversions lasted into the 50s) with a bogie other than a Collett 7' or 9', it would be worth their while making the bogies available separately, as these are not available anywhre in rtr form.

 

The OP mentions a 'proper' trailer and defines that as one suitable for the 30s/40s period, which the Hornby one is.  It is worth pointing out that a pre-grouping trailer in any pre 1920s livery would not have any rtr locomotive to run with it; prior to introducing the 48xx (14xx) and 54xx classes, the GW used auto-fitted 2021s, Metro 2-4-0T, and 517 0-4-2T, and the latter could presumably be produced on a 48xx chassis.  This leads to what I consider another big hole in rtr provision; LMS, Southern, and LNER modellers have a range of compartment non-gangwayed coaches, but the only such beasts available for GW modellers rtr is the old Airfix B set, I believe not in current production.  The B set is a useful branch line train, but not suitable for 'proper' suburban or secondary work such as was common in the London, Birmingham, Bristol, Plymouth, and South Wales areas.  I would suggest a Brake 3rd/Compo/Full Third range of Collett bow ended or flat ended vehicles, the flat enders being capable of being produced as A43/A44 converted auto trailers in the 50s as well.

 

If there was demand for B sets and demand for A27/30 trailers, there is, I would imagine, demand for the above suggested items.

Edited July 18, 2017 by The Johnster

[Ozexpatriate]

There is the NEXT WISHLIST for you to vote on or get enough of you together and crowd fund it!

Mark your point is well made.

 

However, I propose this thread as Exhibit A. It took a couple of years, but we this year we have seen the new Hornby GWR Toad (despite having a long-in-the-tooth version on their tooling shelf) and plans by Oxford Rail to produce six wheeled and four wheeled variants (whatever people may think of the fidelity of these models).

 

Neal did a nice job of raising the subject of gathering support for a newly tooled toad. I won't say it was causal to the new models being introduced but would happily stipulate that Neal's approach was better than an open letter to Mr. Hattons. I trust the Hattons model of the 14xx was financially successful despite much criticism here. It would be nice to have a companion DJModels autocoach to go with the version I purchased.

 

Kernow (should they get to the point where they clear the decks of multiple commissions in work before turning to the steam railmotor in earnest) would be a suitable commissioner - though I might prefer them to offer a trailer that matched the steam railmotor than an autocoach per se.

 

Ironically with the re-re-release (I don't know how many 're's) for the Hornby/Mainline/Dapol/whomever autocoach now hitting shops, I happily purchased one. It looks nicer than earlier Hornby versions with it's Indian Red droplights, but of course it doesn't hold up to contemporary levels of detail. Absent the separately fitted handrails on my Dapol boxed one from the 1990s it doesn't stand up to 1990s levels of detailing either, but the paint and lettering is nice and crisp.

 

I'd sign up for an autocoach in an early Collett livery in late 1920s/early 1930s condition compatible with push-pull configurations of early 14xx locomotives.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[chrisf]

Point of information: that old Airfix model is of the A28/A30.  The A27 is slightly shorter and apparently can be made from the A28/A30 but involves far more cutting and shutting than most of today's modellers would contemplate.  It would scare the bejasus out of me.

 

As it comes from the box the A28/A30 has the recessed driver's door of the A30 and the less than flush glazing of the A28.  Lazer glazing may be had for the A30 and the Dart Castings detailing kit is still available, containing among other useful parts a set of decently etched folding steps which would also enhance the Bachmann Hawksworth.  The old Airfix model will not suit the pre-1930s but it is considerably better than nothing.  I believe that kits are available for some older prototypes.  Don't be scared ...

 

Chris

[Ian Hargrave]

Thinking about commissioning coaching stock,we already have one example.It's on the Rails thread in the form of the Dynamometer car.....Rapido of course.I think ATM Jason's the man for the job.So on this form,we're looking at £125 for a decent Autocoach. A thought ?

[Phil Parker]

Hattons, if you are reading, I think there is sufficient demand out there (whether vocal or not) for the commissioning of a proper GWR autocoach.  I know there are some out there on the market.  Hornby has one, but it is dated.  Not only that, it is incorrect for most of the liveries it wears.

 

I think its time we had a proper pre-nationalization autocoach.  I know I would pay for one. Or two.  Or three.  Something that fits correctly in the 1930s and 1940s.

 

Imagine you are Hattons reading this. When you say, "I think there is sufficient demand out there", they would ask, "Based on what?" - that a single person on a forum fancies one? That a couple of your friends might also buy one? This is a £50K+ gamble you are asking someone to take here. They would need some sort of evidence there is to be a return on the investment.

 

I'd suggest that the numbers who would be willing to pay Bachmann money for a perfect autocoach are less than you might wish. Those who just want "any autocoach" will probably be happy with the Airfix/Hornby model - it's not perfect but still sells. Keen types with use the Dart Castings detail kit to bring it into line a with a particular diagram.

 

Really keen types will build an etched kit - something you could learn to do if you really want a specific model (Yes you can. Everyone else building them learnt and it's not that hard. Forming the tumblehome is the difficult bit). If it really matters and you don't want to kit build, commissioning someone to build the kit for you is another possibility.

 

Another option is to commission your own RTR model. Buy 5000 and you can have anything you like.  Either approach Bachmann direct, or hire in help from DJM or Rapido.

 

Whatever you do though, there are big numbers involved. RTR isn't cheap to tool up for and your 2 or 3 top quality coaches will be approaching £100 each I suspect by the time they appear. 

[Clearwater]

To phil'd point above about the Bachmann coach and its sales, given Hattons is one of the largest, if not the largest, they will know exactly how many Bachmann coaches sold and are experienced enough to extrapolate that data to what the market size will be.

 

David

[tomparryharry]

Thinking about commissioning coaching stock,we already have one example.It's on the Rails thread in the form of the Dynamometer car.....Rapido of course.I think ATM Jason's the man for the job.So on this form,we're looking at £125 for a decent Autocoach. A thought ?

Given the cost, an autocoach at this current level of detail is a pretty good idea. If we go down the crowdfunding route, then I'd weigh in for a couple myself. I've deliberately shied away from the excellent Baccy model: Not because of any lack of lack of detail, but because the current time line is so far out, to make it sadly impractical on such a good model.

 

An earlier time period A9, or diagram N? Yes please, I'm in.

 

Ian

[Phil Parker]

To phil'd point above about the Bachmann coach and its sales, given Hattons is one of the largest, if not the largest, they will know exactly how many Bachmann coaches sold and are experienced enough to extrapolate that data to what the market size will be.

 

David

 

And yet they haven't announced one. I can't disagree with your reasoning, but the conclusion must be that for the moment, they don't see a market for another autocoach. Never say never of course.

[grahame]

a proper GWR autocoach.  I know there are some out there on the market.  Hornby has one, but it is dated.  Not only that, it is incorrect for most of the liveries it wears.

 .

Is it not possible to detail and paint the Hornby one in to a more appropriate livery?

 

G.

[Ian Hargrave]

And yet they haven't announced one. I can't disagree with your reasoning, but the conclusion must be that for the moment, they don't see a market for another autocoach. Never say never of course.

 

Maybe this is an issue that need not be confined to this specific thread ? Though given the commission for the DJM 14/58XX then it is a logical progression. I have suggested  this....though not specifically mentioning any retailer... on the Rapido thread....given the obvious parallel with the ongoing Rails commission.and Jason being the man of the moment,it seems.....

[cctransuk]

Point of information: that old Airfix model is of the A28/A30.  The A27 is slightly shorter and apparently can be made from the A28/A30 but involves far more cutting and shutting than most of today's modellers would contemplate.  It would scare the bejasus out of me.

 

As it comes from the box the A28/A30 has the recessed driver's door of the A30 and the less than flush glazing of the A28.  Lazer glazing may be had for the A30 and the Dart Castings detailing kit is still available, containing among other useful parts a set of decently etched folding steps which would also enhance the Bachmann Hawksworth.  The old Airfix model will not suit the pre-1930s but it is considerably better than nothing.  I believe that kits are available for some older prototypes.  Don't be scared ...

 

Chris

 

The correction of the Airfix / Hornby A28 / A30 was covered in detail in early MRJs - I am on the point of producing an A28 from the latest Hornby version.

 

This will involve replacement 7' bogies set to a revised bogie wheelbase; moving out the driver's doors, and sundry other minor mods.

 

I am also going to convert a Bachmann autocoach to represent 'THRUSH', which will require alterations to the internal layout.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

I thought you might like to see a summary of The Results of The Wishlist Poll 2014-2016 in respect of the B-set and GWR Autocoaches.

 

As you will see, the B-set is consistently highest (just); there is not much differentiation between the four GWR Autocoaches; and the BR-built A44 has been consistently lower. The B-set and GWR types were all ‘high polling’ (the bracket which in 2016 covered 443-164 votes) ; the A44 ‘middle polling’ (163-120 votes)

 

GWR Collett B-set (1930-1931, 1933-1936)

206 - 2014

206 - 2015

230 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Steel-panelled Collett (Diags.A27, A28, A30, of 1928-32)

210 - 2014

202 - 2015

202 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Wood-panelled 70ft (e.g. Diags.E, L, P, T and U, of 1905)

174 - 2014

157 - 2015

199 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Wood-panelled 59ft 6in (Diags.J & N, of 1906/7)

162 - 2014

160 - 2015

197 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Wood-panelled Ex-Steam Railmotor 70ft (Diag.A26 of 1928-36)

179 - 2014

171 - 2015

193 - 2016

 

(GWR) Autocoach – BR-built (Diag.A44 of 1955)

128 - 2014

111 - 2015

132 – 2016

 

Brian Macdermott (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[Blobrick]

Hello everyone

 

I thought you might like to see a summary of The Results of The Wishlist Poll 2014-2016 in respect of the B-set and GWR Autocoaches.

 

As you will see, the B-set is consistently highest (just); there is not much differentiation between the four GWR Autocoaches; and the BR-built A44 has been consistently lower. The B-set and GWR types were all ‘high polling’ (the bracket which in 2016 covered 443-164 votes) ; the A44 ‘middle polling’ (163-120 votes)

 

GWR Collett B-set (1930-1931, 1933-1936)

206 - 2014

206 - 2015

230 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Steel-panelled Collett (Diags.A27, A28, A30, of 1928-32)

210 - 2014

202 - 2015

202 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Wood-panelled 70ft (e.g. Diags.E, L, P, T and U, of 1905)

174 - 2014

157 - 2015

199 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Wood-panelled 59ft 6in (Diags.J & N, of 1906/7)

162 - 2014

160 - 2015

197 - 2016

 

GWR Autocoach – Wood-panelled Ex-Steam Railmotor 70ft (Diag.A26 of 1928-36)

179 - 2014

171 - 2015

193 - 2016

 

(GWR) Autocoach – BR-built (Diag.A44 of 1955)

128 - 2014

111 - 2015

132 – 2016

 

Brian Macdermott (on behalf of The Poll Team)

 

 

Just to throw my hat in the ring, I d love to see an up to date version of an Auto coach and a "B" set for that matte,r suitable for late 20s mid 30s. As mentioned before both the current Hornby (Ex Airfix/Mainline etc) versions are looking a little dated, abet improved with crisp printing, but with the new 48xx, they look almost toy like.

I understand that the resultant models could be expensive, but in this world you only get what you pay for, and l would swallow hard and dig deep for good models like Hornby's Bow ended Colletts

Perhaps a brief poll or show of hands as to those who are interested would possibly catch the eye or give food for  thought to an interested manufacturer?

 

Just a thought

 

Bob C

[Clearwater]

And yet they haven't announced one. I can't disagree with your reasoning, but the conclusion must be that for the moment, they don't see a market for another autocoach. Never say never of course.

I agree.

 

If you look at the Dean Goods thread and the sub debate around the YouTube reviews, what struck me having watched a couple of those is the number of mismatched trains that were running. E.g. Early crest stars with gwr liveried coaches etc. A lot of modellers simply don't care for inaccuracies, particularly in the privacy of their own home. I'd wager Hattons saw a spike in sales of the Hornby and Bachmann autocoaches to complement their model. If that's the case, why should they take extra risk? They've still made more sales, with a retail margin, and effectively leveraged there return on their own capital investment.

 

Personally, I ordered a David Geen kit to build in due course...

 

David

[Seanem44]

I agree.

 

If you look at the Dean Goods thread and the sub debate around the YouTube reviews, what struck me having watched a couple of those is the number of mismatched trains that were running. E.g. Early crest stars with gwr liveried coaches etc. A lot of modellers simply don't care for inaccuracies, particularly in the privacy of their own home. I'd wager Hattons saw a spike in sales of the Hornby and Bachmann autocoaches to complement their model. If that's the case, why should they take extra risk? They've still made more sales, with a retail margin, and effectively leveraged there return on their own capital investment.

 

Personally, I ordered a David Geen kit to build in due course...

 

David

If that were the case then, why produce 20 different variants of the warwell?   I know that the warwells are popular, but I think it's now more of people seeing the buzz, liking how the prodcut turned out, and finding a way to make it work on their layout.  I understand they are still in use, so there is a far more practical application for them.  

 

 

Honestly, I wonder what kind of crowdfunding is required to start a commission for any stock in particular.  That may in the end be the best approach.

[Seanem44]

Is it not possible to detail and paint the Hornby one in to a more appropriate livery?

 

G.

For some individuals more than others.  I imagine my follies into this would end with frustration and a model sitting in a trash can.

[Happy Hippo]

If you really want a hard swallow, try purchasing a 7mm scale B set!

[ndg910]

I did suggest to the Cornish crowd (am I allowed to quote them on a Hattons thread???) that a useful addition might be a steam railmotor trailer which could then with a little tooling adjustment be changed into the autocoach they became. I also suggested that the steam railmotor could be adjusted to an autocoach. It was never confirmed but I don't think the proposed tooling allows this easily.