brossard Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) I have the subject kit to build for a friend of mine. It comes as 9' WB and unfitted. I'd like to know if I can credibly convert the kit to vacuum brake and what Dia. that would be. Dia V23 looks similar but is 10' WB. I have the various fittings from Slaters. There are some useful articles in MRJs 37, 40, 43, 45, 103 and 200. I haven't seen any mention of Dia V33 anywhere. BTW I was stunned to discover a site that actually contains useful information: http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/wagon_draw.htm John Edited July 19, 2017 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I think V33 was merely an unfitted V21. You'll need a tiebar on a V21. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 Ah thanks Miss P. Tiebar is no problem. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted July 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2017 I've just done this as well. The bodies on the 9ft vans are subtly different to the 10 foot (the side panels are not split evenly either side of the upright strapping) so you end up with something a little different. I had to guess the tare tho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 Hal, good to know someone else is in the same boat. Do you have pictures? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 I've started construction of the now V21 van and here's where I got: P1010001 by John Kendall, on Flickr P1010002 by John Kendall, on Flickr I spent a fair bit of time scratching my head because the distance from U/F CL and vac cylinder piston rod should be 10mm and the cross brace got in the way. I found a very good picture of a V21 in Paul B's collection and the answer seems to be that the cylinder was mounted low so that it could be below the brace. This is how I've done it. The picture raises a new question and that is about wheels. The kit comes with spoked wheels but the V21 pictured has 3 hole disc which seem to be common on fitted stock. I can rob some of these from another project but can someone clarify whether disc wheels were universal on fitted vehicles? John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 ...but can someone clarify whether disc wheels were universal on fitted vehicles? It would be a mistake to correlate wheel style with vacuum brake fitting. Solid wheels didn't make a significant appearance until after 1930, so it is likely all the V21s when they first appeared had spoked wheels. Spoked wheels seem to be the norm for Minks up to the mid-1930s. Vehicles being shopped later in their life could appear with either type of wheel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 Thanks Miss P. So, a V21 in BR service in 1962 could have either? (Assuming that is, that the van was in service). The pictures I have found are of the van in Departmental use with disc wheels. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1962 is out of my comfort zone, and I wonder how many 9' fitteds would still have been in active service then. I guess my first port of call would be Paul Bartlett's Mink pages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) As I said, doubtful that all that many were left. I have read that 9' WB wagons were being culled ferociously by the early 60s. I did spend some time this PM browsing Paul's site, which is where I found the picture I mentioned. Not a lot of info on the web as is usual. The safest way to go is to fit disc wheels. Perhaps someone with knowledge of the BR era can help. John Edited July 21, 2017 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) So, at close of play, here's where I am: P1010002-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr P1010001-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr I added a vacuum pipe with clips. Wheels were temporarily installed to get the brake positioning correct. I broke a safety loop getting it off the sprue so used some brass strip instead. There's a post to support the middle of one axle. It all looks like the picture. Ready for paint. John Edited July 21, 2017 by brossard 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2017 BR seems to have carried on using 8-spoke wheels under certain new-build fitted wagons into the 1950s, in particular Meat vans and Lowfits. The survival of a 9' wheelbase fitted Mink in revenue-earning traffic much beyond 1960 would be fairly improbable/rare IMHO, albeit more likely than an unfitted example. I'd expect there to be quite a few in departmental use, though. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 Thanks John. I converted the kit to V21 (fitted) because I felt that it was more plausible. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted July 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) A couple of shots of mine including particularly crude compensation! I spend quite a lot of time thinning down the brake parts on Parkside wagons but I really ought to replace the brake lever guide and I still haven't got round to the tie bars and or couplings. I based it on the examples of V21s on Paul Bartlett's excellent site (mentioned above) although as others have suggested, I had no idea when it would have switched from regular service and I realise now I've probably based my number on the departmental ones. I had the kit spare though and fancied the variation. Edited July 22, 2017 by Hal Nail 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 Great pics Hal. I should have thinned the brakes since the safety loops are a tight fit. I sat up with a jolt yesterday as I realized that I had done the brakes wrong. This has been corrected. Underframes always seem to take the bulk of the effort with my kit builds. I think I found the pictures that you refer to and they are very useful. I see you have used disc wheels, something I was debating earlier. The underframe is now black so I can build the body next. I don't see couplings on your van??? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 A couple of shots of mine including particularly crude compensation! I spend quite a lot of time thinning down the brake parts on Parkside wagons but I really ought to replace the brake lever guide and I still haven't got round to the tie bars and or couplings. I based it on the examples of V21s on Paul Bartlett's excellent site (mentioned above) although as others have suggested, I had no idea when it would have switched from regular service and I realise now I've probably based my number on the departmental ones. I had the kit spare though and fancied the variation. Unless I am missing something, 9'-0'' wheelbase wagons, even when vacuum-braked, did not qualify for XP marking. Sorry, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted July 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2017 Vehicles being shopped later in their life could appear with either type of wheel. Sometimes on the same vehicle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted July 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2017 Unless I am missing something, 9'-0'' wheelbase wagons, even when vacuum-braked, did not qualify for XP marking. Sorry, John Isherwood. Thanks, will have them back off. Sods law I had salvaged a last pair from a dried out sheet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted July 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2017 I don't see couplings on your van??? I didn't have any spare instanters or screwlinks at the time and anyway I've never been a massive fan of finishing anything! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Unless I am missing something, 9'-0'' wheelbase wagons, even when vacuum-braked, did not qualify for XP marking. Sorry, John Isherwood. Agreed. There should also be a tie-bar between the axleguards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 Good point about XP markings. I'm guessing 9' WB vehicles weren't stable enough to do 60 mph +. I did put tiebars on mine. I used 1mm PB strip since I don't think plastic is up to the job. I'm more or less decided to do disc wheels, at least there's photographic evidence for that. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted July 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2017 A couple of other variations even between the two examples on that site, one has different axle boxes and the other possibly has the vac pipes in the lower position (unless they've been removed). I did wonder if any V33s would have been retro fitted and suitable for mid/late 50s as well but perhaps they didn't bother with the 9 foot examples? Anyway interested to see more progress pics of yours and it has prompted me to finish mine off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 The friend I'm building this for has "scads" of GWR wagon books - I'm just waiting for him to drop them off. More pics of mine when I get more progress made. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 A couple of other variations even between the two examples on that site, one has different axle boxes and the other possibly has the vac pipes in the lower position (unless they've been removed). I did wonder if any V33s would have been retro fitted and suitable for mid/late 50s as well but perhaps they didn't bother with the 9 foot examples? Anyway interested to see more progress pics of yours and it has prompted me to finish mine off! I don't think they'd have bothered retro-fitting any of these in the 1950s, as there were already a lot of wartime 10' wheelbase opens and vans to fit. There were some terminals where 9' wheelbase wagons were required, due to their still using wagon turntables, but these were few and far-between. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 I've completed construction of the V21 van. P1010001-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr Couplings are Slaters instanter and vacuum pipe is also Slaters. Tie bar is 1mm phosphor bronze strip. My friend lent me a great big book on GWR wagons. I found that van designs prior to about 1935 had spoked wheels (and there's a picture of a V21 with spoked wheels) and after that disc wheels appear to have been the norm. P1010002-001 by John Kendall, on Flickr I also added a lamp bracket, Slater's again since the kit doesn't have any. John 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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