ifoulds Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I'm having one heck of a time with Seep PM-1 point motors. I'm using a couple of templates and jigs to make sure everything is squared and center when installing the motors. I don't think that is the problem, as they throw fine manually. When I actually power them, they're wildly inconsistent. When I watch carefully, I can see the rod that comes up in to the points rotating, and there seems to be an awful lot of play on it. If the rod rotates 1/4 turn, it seems to totally change the throw distance and angle to the extent that one half of the point won't throw. If I keep flipping the switch back and forth or manually throw the point and try again, sometimes it rotates around will run for a couple of throws and then rotate itself out again. I've spent hours today and only gotten one successfully installed and working reliably, and I think that's because I add a small spot of superglue on the rod to stop it rotating. But, is this normal? I can't find other references like this. Bad batch? I've got 25 of these, so don't want to move away from them to a more expensive Tortoise motor or similar. But, if these need returning, can explore alternatives. I put a video on YouTube to show the extent of the free play. If this normal, how on earth do you make it throw reliably? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Should be fixed send them back for replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrysoham Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Hi, We used these extensively on our club's N scale layout and had problems with some of them as you describe - even had a few where the vertical driving rod fell out of the hole in the horizontal armature. Like you I glued them into the hole but I used two part epoxy instead of superglue. However I suppose the gel type superglue would be just as good. Try it and see. Your alternative is to return them as not being fit for purpose but what do use as an alternative? I now use either Tortoise or DCC Concept's slow acting motors. However, they cost considerably more. Regards 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) I had a couple of Seeps with the same problem. The operating rod was not straight. I held it in place with small pliers and bent it back. I also found problems with them not making the contacts reliably on thinner baseboards in 00 so I now mount them on wooden packers about 10mm thick. Slightly ofsetting the screws holding the packers from the line of the points tie bar also allows a bit of fine adjustment before they are fully tightened. Edited July 23, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 One way to get them to align is to position the motor on top of the point, drill through the fixing holes and then bolt them in place underneath rather than screwing them in place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 It needs to be a good fit if its going to survive in intensive use. I don't use seeps or Peco motors in this mode as there is a lot of load on that shaft. As a bodge Find a slightly larger diameter rod and carefully bash it in place with a hammer. Needle from Grandma's sewing box? And or re drill the hole to suit the larger rod. Sounds like a bad batch if it started loose, however banging any motor back and forth on loads of amps will quickly wreck it, and a bent rod is less aggro than a broken point tie bar or displaced blade. Are you using an appropriate size CDU? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I have over 100 Seep PM1, and none of the rods rotate or bend. Looking at the video it appears the manufacture has changed as the rod has been crimped either side of the shaft instead of it being an interference fit in the shaft. The rods on my Seeps are hardened steel and cannot be crimped or cut easily Definitely return them as 'not for purpose' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifoulds Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 Thanks all. Rather disappointing, as other than alignment issues, I'd largely heard good things. And for the price, they're great when you need a large number of them. I'm in the US, so international shipping and time back and forth with Hattons isn't appealing. I'll look at the remaining motors to see if they're all like this. The first four I pulled out were like this, so not optimistic. Seems bizarre if it's a change in manufacturing - I cannot figure out how these could possibly work with so much rotation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
randompilgrim Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I also have this problem and didn't realise until i'd already pre-soldered the wires! Keep us posted if you have any luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I've a number of SEEP motors, of varying ages, a lot of which I have "revived" from the junk box. Some had loose rods, in fact some even fell out! I devised a fairly simple mounting which I put into home production for each one, to overcome any problems of mounting them, getting the alignment right, and fitting a proper microswitch rather than relying on the awful "washer on a strip of solder" switch. I did, I'm sure, post a description on here many moons ago, with pics, but can't find it now. Anyway, they all work reliably in their present form. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Seep used to be very reliable motors from years past but their latest batches seem to have issues. I'm installing about 17 pm2 and the first two I've tested go in one direction but won't return despite being aligned as best as possible and you can manually move it. The pin that fits into the shaft between the two coils does seem very loose. Problem not resolved despite using a Cobalt CDU2+ capacitor discharge unit!! Super glue worked for anyone in similar position? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shottsj Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Just joined the 'unhappy party'!Have a layout where I have installed about 50 SEEPS and most of them work just fine. But as it is N gauge the alignment is absolutely critical, especially if the polarity switch is going to work correctly.I have a great methodology for installation worked out BUT when the pin spins, and when the pin itself is not perfectly straight there is NOTHING that will make them work.If anyone has an infallible long term proven way to lock the pin in place that might be OK but I've not managed it so far. Let Us Know!!! :-) Just got the second one from Hattons and it turns out also to be a 'spinner' so I am planning to send it back. Gaugemaster clearly need to get their manufacturing sorted out!!! Grrrr! Cheers. Jeremy Edited January 10, 2018 by shottsj Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shottsj Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Quick follow up. Just phoned Hattons and told them the sob story and they have very kindly agreed to send a replacement motor FOC even though I already soldered the faulty one. It's not their fault that Gaugemaster manufacture is deficient so it's quite nice of them really.I asked that they pass on our collective negative feedback to Gaugemaster but whether anything will come of it...?Good luck with your SEEPs everyone. From my viewpoint they are still a very good and well priced solution when they aren't out of whack! With 50+ motors to install Cobalts or Tortoises just weren't in my budget... Cheers! Jeremy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shottsj Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 A further update. Being impatient I decided not to wait for a replacement. So I put some superglue on the joint where the pin goes through the sliding rod and pushed it hard into place while the glue dried.It seems to have formed a good joint. No sign of spinning or twisting or any slack at all.Have now mounted the motor fully aligned and correctly operating including positive accurtate polarity switching. Now only time and operations will prove whether this is a good solution. Wish me luck! Cheers! Jeremy.(The replacement item came from Hattons today so now I have a spare in case it does come apart again with usage!) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelaface Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 has anyone got a definite solution to this problem yet? I've just purchased a bunch of these solenoids and discovered this problem, and would rather not see any money go to waste on them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted July 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Michaelaface said: has anyone got a definite solution to this problem yet? I've just purchased a bunch of these solenoids and discovered this problem, and would rather not see any money go to waste on them It would seem that gluing in place BEFORE attempting to fit is the solution. As has been suggested the rotation or twisting of the rod is fatal, because the the point motor is quite critical for alignment. If it rotates by even a tiny amount, then the point will have difficulty throwing with any reliability. Definitely sounds like a change in manufacturing methods, has caused the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 While mine don't seem to rotate, I have had a couple simply fall out - one right at the back in a pretty unreachable spot! I only have 4, but will be looking to replace them with slow mo ones next time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelaface Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I've used a drop of superglue, based on the advice above and from gaugemaster, so far its working fine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifoulds Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 Unfortunately, like others, I simply replaced them. Even with the bodge job of superglue, they didn't hold up over time for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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