O-gauge 'Box File'

[Sturminster_Newton]

Evening All,

 

Having been inspired by Brierley Canal Road, I've been thinking about whether a similar layout could be constructed using Peco O-gauge set track, two straights and a set of right hand points. The straights may be reduced in length to fit into the available  space and also a mount for buffer stops.

 

The side branch from the points, being a lay-over siding for one of the two shunters between moves on the second board yet to be designed.

 

My take on the muddle is to force perspective by using the principles of Stage wings. Reducing the width from 900mm at the front (Down stage) to  711mm at the Backwall (Up stage).

 

A run of railway arches crossing in front of the scenic backdrop.

 

With the possibility of single line 0-16.5 tramway running across the top and a few light industrial units in the arches.

 

A traverse wall, ground row, will run SR to SL with a gate way into the yard.

 

The area down stage will have a boundary wall, stage right, with a passage way abutting a low profile Z roof factory.

 

The passage will link to a small platform with small Ticket office/waiting room.

 

A low profile small factory unit will run along the stage left wing, just.

 

Although this may become a small weighbridge and office with just a representation of the factory along the wing wall.

 

Motive power/Rolling stock will hopefully be:

 

A Heljan rail-car

 

Dapol Class 08

 

Heljan class 03

 

No wagons, tanks or vans.

 

ALL sit easily on straight sections of set track reduced to about 300-330mm from 394mm

 

Mounted a 900mm x 450mm canopied baseboard kit. Not sure whose yet.

 

Three 'run-off' cassette will allow interchange of stock.

 

Era sometime in the late 1950s early 1960s.

 

Yes it will be cramped but Brierley Canal Road is not exactly over generous in the region of space.

 

It also has some room to change the buildings around.

 

Your thoughts please.

 

 

[andyfoulger]

Sounds like an interesting idea. I've also been following Paul's thread and I'm 'teetering' .....

I've been using Sketchup for the past month (free PRO license expired at the weekend), this program could prove useful for the conceptual part of the proposed project... I'll try doodling your nicely described ideas.

 

 

Andy

[Nearholmer]

It being overly familiar with stage-set terminology, I'd welcome a sketch, but you've got me interested.

 

One thought is that you might need to be careful not to over-stuff the scene ........ in a very tiny space, less is usually more.

 

I've held-off on my own tiny-layout plans for r-t-r finescale 0 for now (too busy!), but if you look at my thread you will see how I've used arches as a backdrop on my tiny coarse-scale terminus.

 

Kevin

[rue_d_etropal]

I am told there was an O gauge boxfile layout at GCR event this year. Traditional in the box though. I would strongly suggest trying to build it on the lid, using the box for permanently fitted large buildings.

O gauge does not interest me personally, but I am working on an idea for a Gauge One layout using boxfiles.

[andyfoulger]

Hi,

 

A quick doodle, hopefully along the right lines.

10' tall walls front and right,

arches at rear with space for track, arch width 20' with 10 radius arches.

Factory and rails to be added... if required for this illustration

 

back and side scenes are outside the 900mm x 450mm footprint

 

I beginning to find that this type of doodling saves time with the mock-up phase, the panning features allow inspection from which ever angle is required.

 

 

 

Andy

[Nearholmer]

Got it.

 

And, the use of brick arches as a background against which to display trains certainly works a treat.

 

One thing that I think might be difficult in the space will be avoiding over-symetricality, which is boring to look at. Are you into "the rule of thirds" or " the golden ratio"?

 

You might also want to try slightly angling, or even curving, the run of arches, because that again will be more interesting to the eye. My own attempt is very rectilinear, simply because I wanted to cram a lot of track into the space!

 

Kevin

Edited August 3, 2017 by Nearholmer

[andyfoulger]

I didn't give any thought to the 'ratios and rules', the exercise was simply to understand the written requirement and demonstrate the drawing package... this was a 15 / 20 minute exercise. Sturminster_Newton ...(aka ?) did I get close to what you had in mind  ? (I do need to find out what a 'Z profile roof' is...)

 

Andy

[Sturminster_Newton]

Thanks for the input and many thanks for the time taken to produce the diagram which gives substance to my thoughts.

 

Rue_d_etropal - It won't be a 'Box File' in the A4 stationary supplies sense but a proportionally larger 'box' more suited to the size of items that will occupy it. (900 x 450mm x 400mm)

 

Brierley Canal Road used three sections of OO Track.

 

This project uses two straight and a set of points. (Same basics)

 

One straight and the points measure 78.8cms 'from the suppliers box'.

 

I aim to chop the 'platform' straight short by 90mm and move the cut piece to the heel of the points to use as the connection between the baseboards.

 

I'm also prepared to reduce the straight which forms the lay-over siding if required.

 

The run of upstage arches will be lower in height more in-line with those on the London - Greenwich railway so that the arches can feature businesses within the arch and are generally more low bridge than towering face of brickwork.

 

The L-cut arches are 180mm to the Parapet their Retaining walls are 200mm to the same point.

 

Not a large difference but closer to the rule of thirds...for the railway arches

 

Which might reduce totally the hemmed in look a little.

 

I know the list of structures is high but items can be struck to stop the over stuffed look, and there is always a second or third layout to spill onto.

 

It may end up with a Loco mess-room, perhaps a car or van with several push-bikes in place of BIG buildings.

 

Search is on for 1:43 1930-40's car Austin 7 Austin Devon Morris Minor and Medium van Austin J2 in Custard and Cream Livery.

 

The platform may yet become a maintenance walkway, the kind of thing seen in carriage sidings and loco depot.

 

Questions for prototypical operations dept:

 

Would a layover siding normally be trailing or facing?

 

Would it feature a down gradient of 1:100 to the buffer stop to stop run-aways?

 

My normal place of play is a Garden Railway of around a 16mm mile of 45mm track.

 

I just want a wet day railway project and OO9 don't cut it now.

 

West Country weather can be anything from blazing sun to Noah's flood downpour.

 

The project is something to ensure I am under SWMBO's feet during dark evenings.

[F-UnitMad]

O scale in an A4 Boxfile? Of course it fits!!

 

I did one some years ago, it got into Carl Arendt's website, page 81a...

 

http://www.carendt.com/small-layout-scrapbook/page-81a-january-2009

 

Scroll about halfway down.

[Nearholmer]

"I just want a wet day railway project and OO9 don't cut it now."

 

Yep, I was an ex-009er into garden railways, and wanted something to play with on cold, dark evenings ........ it can all get a bit out of hand!

 

K

[rue_d_etropal]

This project sounds more like a layout in a box. I have not seen boxfiles that big! As I said I am planning a gauge one layout using boxfiles. One point 2 working  wagon turntables to start with. 

[Sturminster_Newton]

I didn't give any thought to the 'ratios and rules', the exercise was simply to understand the written requirement and demonstrate the drawing package... this was a 15 / 20 minute exercise. Sturminster_Newton ...(aka ?) did I get close to what you had in mind  ? (I do need to find out what a 'Z profile roof' is...)

 

Andy

Almost dead on mate.

 

Z profile = North light Roof = Mental block on the correct name...DOH!

[Sturminster_Newton]

Golden Ratio, in case you've been awake nights worried

 

A line, any line, is divided into two parts, any proportion up to 49% and 51% of the original length.

 

The longer part is divided by the smaller part, is equal to the sum of (long) + (short) divided by (longer), which equal 1.618.

 

Rule of thirds, in case you are not an artist or photographist

 

A third sky, a third background, a third foreground/subject.

 

It works in horizontal or vertical planes.

 

Every day's a school day.

 

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I've been looking at the viaduct that forms the London and Greenwich railway from a distance that would be equal to the depth of the proposed yard.

 

Mainly to see how much of what lies beyond is visible from ground level.

 

In short not much other than the sky...or tall buildings those more than 3 floors tall.

 

Shorter buildings would be visible through the arches, BUT they will be 'filled' with industries.

 

So what lies beyond need only be the sky as a background.

 

And perhaps a church spire, a tall chimney or two.

 

Although the infamous Peco city backscene might yet see use.

 

I've not been able to source a one piece 1950s urban skyline 400mm high and 1500mm long...any ideas?

 

The web has not thrown anything of use up other than the Peco offering which is ubiquitous.

 

Having looked at the plan above the idea of peeping over the Downstage wall to the inside of the yard appeals.

 

The low upstage wall that I initially thought of could be 'a run' of Concrete wall that was the output of the SR cement works in Exeter amongst others .

 

The planning stage moves on.

 

I did note that BR vehicles in 1:43 are not the hen's teeth I imagined, things are looking up.

[Nearholmer]

Why not draw/paint your own background? You're not talking about a great many things to draw/paint, and they're simple shapes that could be coloured very simply.

 

One particularly tall building, poking above the viaduct, could be the very thing you need to get it to look right.

 

K

[Sturminster_Newton]

Railwayist questions

 

Do sidings have a down grade to the buffer-stops?

 

Would an MPD stabling siding open onto a head shunt rather than the mainline?

 

All comment gratefully received.

[Nearholmer]

Answer to both:

 

Yes, no, and maybe.

 

Local circumstances, and solutions to operating needs, varied enormously.

 

Sidings ideally don't slope down towards the connection with the running lines, but there are or were some that did.

 

What you might be hinting at is the need for "trapping", means to divert any vehicle that hasn't stopped where it should have stopped from running either onto or foul of a road where its presence could cause danger. The need for trapping applies to sidings and MPD roads, and in many other places besides.

 

Kevin

[Sturminster_Newton]

The fore ground detail in the pic link is an inspiration for those looking at Micro-layouts

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/57/93/6a/57936aa9a403cd388a40890fc7777d32.jpg

 

I can't be doing with Pinterest it's too instrusive to be a member of.

 

The shot is of Birkenhead docks. It is the gateman's hut and signal box that caught my eye in this little cameo shot.

 

I've not yet trawled through the rmweb archive for inspirational pics but I've seen one or two via links in Google Images.

 

Many thanks Ken for your thoughts and answers on sidings.

[Sturminster_Newton]

The proposed introduction of an O gauge Sentinel Y1 from Model Rail has rekindled the interest in this project.

 

Having the OO model the more fulfilling 1:43 scale model is easier to inspect without a hand lens.

 

It also makes the most of the limited run length as well as allowing the purchase of two for the current list price of a Dapol gronk, much as I'd love one.