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It's time you logged on, Jason


dibber25
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A while back I asked Jason - in a topic on RMweb - if he 'Fancied a Budd' and now we have a very fine Budd RDC from Rapido. Not sure my post had anything to do with it, but I thought I'd have another try, this time for something he won't need for the Kingston Sub. Canada is big on timber, especially out in the west, which is the bit that I model. I made this PGE log car back in the 1980s but I need quite a few log cars to run with my BC Rail and Canfor locos. Considering how important logging is, there's virtually nothing in ready-to-run log cars - Hornby's ex-Rivarossi little steam era cars and that's about it. We've got covered hoppers, reefers and gondolas galore but to the best of my knowledge no one has ever done a proper high-stake log car, so how about it, Rapido?

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A while back I asked Jason - in a topic on RMweb - if he 'Fancied a Budd' and now we have a very fine Budd RDC from Rapido. Not sure my post had anything to do with it, but I thought I'd have another try, this time for something he won't need for the Kingston Sub. Canada is big on timber, especially out in the west, which is the bit that I model. I made this PGE log car back in the 1980s but I need quite a few log cars to run with my BC Rail and Canfor locos. Considering how important logging is, there's virtually nothing in ready-to-run log cars - Hornby's ex-Rivarossi little steam era cars and that's about it. We've got covered hoppers, reefers and gondolas galore but to the best of my knowledge no one has ever done a proper high-stake log car, so how about it, Rapido?

 

Shameless opportunism on your part Chris...

 

P.S. Is there any chance you could put in a good word for a J37 with Jason? The princely sum of two bob is yours if you can make it so.....

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Shameless opportunism on your part Chris...

 

P.S. Is there any chance you could put in a good word for a J37 with Jason? The princely sum of two bob is yours if you can make it so.....

He'll ask me if a J37 is just over half a J70! Seriously, we still need more choice in 0-6-0s, don't we? With Hornby's Black Motor and Oxford's Dean Goods, my personal 0-6-0 choices are covered, so I might well put in a good word for a J37, particularly if Jason decides his next British product should be a bit more straightforward. The APT-E, the Stirling single and the J70 haven't exactly been an easy ride for the designers. (CJL)

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A while back I asked Jason - in a topic on RMweb - if he 'Fancied a Budd' and now we have a very fine Budd RDC from Rapido. Not sure my post had anything to do with it, but I thought I'd have another try, this time for something he won't need for the Kingston Sub. Canada is big on timber, especially out in the west, which is the bit that I model. I made this PGE log car back in the 1980s but I need quite a few log cars to run with my BC Rail and Canfor locos. Considering how important logging is, there's virtually nothing in ready-to-run log cars - Hornby's ex-Rivarossi little steam era cars and that's about it. We've got covered hoppers, reefers and gondolas galore but to the best of my knowledge no one has ever done a proper high-stake log car, so how about it, Rapido?

Its amazing what can be done with a handful of licorice roots......

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..., we still need more choice in 0-6-0s, don't we? ...

Expanding a little on this thought, it seems to me that now most of the obvious 'plums' in steam traction have been picked, one way ahead might be some systematic 'infill' provision to open up areas of the country to modelling, by providing the most common indigenous pre-group types that were an essential character item in the scene. Many of which would be small 0-6-0's, of the same general type as the Dean goods, J11, J15, C, 700, 3F: the maid of all work loco that was so useful that it lasted practically up to the end of steam in its home area.

 

I do wonder if such provision might trigger a surge of interest in producing Scottish steam era layouts, in much the same way that the arrival of RTR classes 26 and 27 did? It wouldn't hurt the cause that the Caley and NBR 0-6-0 designs - and their other numerous classes - are such handsome machines too. Chance for a manufacturer to carve out a territorial niche?

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I'm principally a Southern fan, with LNE leanings ( hope that doesn't make me a bad person ).

I would love to see an RTR model of a GNR J6, lots of typical Great Northern features all wrapped

up in a small 0~6~0.

 

After Chris gets his timber / lumber cars , of course.

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Seeing as this thread looks suspiciously like a Wish List, can I suggest that Rapido break new ground - and fill a massive hole in the American 2-rail O Scale market - by doing a decent 1:48 scale GP38-2.?

Do it in the HO scale manner of one central motor with drive shafts to the trucks, no "China drive" twin motors, please!! :nono: :D :mosking:

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Seeing as this thread looks suspiciously like a Wish List, can I suggest that Rapido break new ground - and fill a massive hole in the American 2-rail O Scale market - by doing a decent 1:48 scale GP38-2.?

 

On Rapido's Facebook page for their latest RDC announcement someone asked them about doing anything in 2 Rail O Scale and their response was:

 

"Never say never but not anytime soon. Sorry."

 

I suspect the biggest issue would be the lack of a large enough market for a Rapido style model given the complete dominance of 3-rail O (which I believe is all the hobby shops in the Toronto area carry except for special order).

 

If there was to be a gamble on a scale other than HO/N I could maybe see S being a candidate given there is at least some quality S scale modeling happening of Canadian prototypes, but even that I would consider highly unlikely.

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On Rapido's Facebook page for their latest RDC announcement someone asked them about doing anything in 2 Rail O Scale and their response was:

 

"Never say never but not anytime soon. Sorry."

 

I suspect the biggest issue would be the lack of a large enough market for a Rapido style model given the complete dominance of 3-rail O

Sadly that is very true - to the extent that across The Pond there is even talk of the death of 2-rail O Scale before much longer! :O :(

3-rail O Gauge (interesting that the words "Scale" & "Gauge" seperate the two disciplines as well) really is strangling the development of decent 2-rail products over there.

I think part of the problem is the 'typical' mindset of the American modeller, who has been led to think in terms of the Basement Empire type of layout. If he can't fit all he wants in HO or N scales into such a space, then he isn't going to even contemplate 2-rail O, as he will naturally think he needs the space of a Sports Hall to fit in a "successful" layout.

 

Such a contrast to the UK, where O Scale is enjoying a boom time at present, despite the fact we have far less space available for layouts whatever the scale!!  :scratchhead:

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Expanding a little on this thought, it seems to me that now most of the obvious 'plums' in steam traction have been picked, one way ahead might be some systematic 'infill' provision ..

I called in at Shildon today and marvelled as ever at the quality of the 1:1 scale exhibits sitting in this quiet corner of Co. Durham.

 

The Stirling Single has gone now, but 'Hardwicke' that plucky little blackberry-black hard running Jumbo was there - still leaning forwards, straining at it's leash..

It struck me as a prime candidate for someone to scan in preparation for an R-T-R  addition to the Locomotion model collection (to accompany the Coal tank and the G2A).

Like the battle worn little Dean Goods, it comes with a great story about its exploits.

 

dh

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I think part of the problem is the 'typical' mindset of the American modeller, who has been led to think in terms of the Basement Empire type of layout.

While I won't argue that is part of the problem, I don't know that it is really all that significant.

 

Large parts of the US don't have basements, and even those that do the basement is no longer up for grabs.  Most houses for the last 20 years have come with finished basements, and older homes often have the basements finished for extra "house" space.  Combine that with the move to cities and in large areas, despite the McMansions, people are actually living in tight spaces (maybe not as tight as the UK, but tight for the US.

 

Such a contrast to the UK, where O Scale is enjoying a boom time at present, despite the fact we have far less space available for layouts whatever the scale!!  :scratchhead:

 

But you also aren't competing in 7mm with a 3 rail toy, so it was easier to create a market for more mainstream models.  That is one reason why I think if anyone wants to have a go in North America at creating larger than HO with detailed models market S would be better as the 3-rail S has pretty much died already I believe leaving no market competition.

 

(it also helps that you have a lot of extremely small prototypes - there is nothing like the Class 08 or the short 4 wheel wagons to model over here)

 

[edit spelling]

Edited by Gerald Henriksen
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Canada is big on timber, especially out in the west, which is the bit that I model. I made this PGE log car back in the 1980s but I need quite a few log cars to run with my BC Rail and Canfor locos. Considering how important logging is, there's virtually nothing in ready-to-run log cars

 

To get back on topic, just how big is the log / spine car market?

 

My uneducated impression was that logging was either by road or water and so was surprised to see BC Rail mentioned along with logging, and a little bit of searching online hasn't turned up much information (likely a bad sign for a prospective model, but I maybe searching incorrectly).

 

Was it a significant volume for BC Rail, and did it travel off BC Rail property?

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On Rapido's Facebook page for their latest RDC announcement someone asked them about doing anything in 2 Rail O Scale and their response was:

 

"Never say never but not anytime soon. Sorry."

 

I suspect the biggest issue would be the lack of a large enough market for a Rapido style model given the complete dominance of 3-rail O (which I believe is all the hobby shops in the Toronto area carry except for special order).

 

If there was to be a gamble on a scale other than HO/N I could maybe see S being a candidate given there is at least some quality S scale modeling happening of Canadian prototypes, but even that I would consider highly unlikely.

 

Interesting discussion.

 

The market for scale 2-rail is very small indeed. That's why there are so few models available. If an O scale model is not also available in three-rail and capable of navigating 18" radius curves, it won't sell enough to cover its tooling costs. The vast majority of O models are designed entirely for three-rail, hence the popularity of "shorty" passenger cars even though they went out of style in HO over 30 years ago.

 

Our HO models tend to be so niche that we don't sell a huge number, even of those.

 

We've had lots of requests for GMD-1s in O scale, but there is no way we would cover the tooling costs.

 

Gareth and I are very impressed by Heljan's diesel offerings in 7mm. We'd have trouble selling even one in North America.

 

-Jason

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While I won't argue that is part of the problem, I don't know that it is really all that significant.

 

Large parts of the US don't have basements, and even those that do the basement is no longer up for grabs.  Most houses for the last 20 years have come with finished basements, and older homes often have the basements finished for extra "house" space.  Combine that with the move to cities and in large areas, despite the McMansions, people are actually living in tight spaces (maybe not as tight as the UK, but tight for the US.

 

 

But you also aren't competing in 7mm with a 3 rail toy, so it was easier to create a market for more mainstream models.  That is one reason why I think if anyone wants to have a go in North America at creating larger than HO with detailed models market S would be better as the 3-rail S has pretty much died already I believe leaving no market competition.

 

(it also helps that you have a lot of extremely small prototypes - there is nothing like the Class 08 or the short 4 wheel wagons to model over here)

 

[edit spelling]

90% of California homes have no basements. Only older stock built pre-1940 had basements  They have been built built on a concrete slab since the late 1940's.  Some are 2 story with the lower part housing the garage and 3rd bedroom on the slab. Then there are the $15 million + homes (see Rod Stewart's house and layout in LA featured in Model Railroader).

 

For a larger scale On30 has quite a large following probably equal or larger than the correct gauge On3. Narrow gauge prototype running on HO 16.5 millimeter gauge track. Currently the smallest practical scale for "dead rail" control and battery power. There are a lot of modular groups doing On30. Bachmann USA has an excellent well received line of On30 equipment.

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For micro niches I think brass is still attractive. OK the cost for manufacturing an individual model is high but you avoid the very expensive tools necessary for injection moulded plastic and models can be made in tiny numbers, almost to the point of being bespoke. Yes the models are expensive, but most O is expensive.

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Yes the models are expensive, but most O is expensive.

Ah, but... part of the atraction to me of US O Scale was that it wasn't expensive - certainly not compared to British O.

This was when £1 = $2, & the shipping costs weren't at stupid levels; certainly in recent years those incentives have gone. :(

Then makers like Minerva & Dapol have taken a swipe at the prevailing British attitudes of (1) "If it's O Scale it MUST be expensive" & (2) "There's no market for R-T-R O Scale".

 

I still live in hope that one day a good & affordable GP38-2 will be done in 1:48 2-rail. Oh, & a CF7. :yes:

 

Now, if you'll excuse me....

 

"Dear Santa....

 

:jester:

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Gosh, this thread has really lost the plot. Here was I asking about - or suggesting, actually - that a log car might be a nice little earner and a change from all those endless box-cars and hoppers - and we lurch into wish-lists and American 'O' gauge. Sorry, I'll get back in my box. Time to dig out the cast log bunks that I had made about 30 years ago. Should have done the etched kit to go with them at the time. (CJL)

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Didn't you get the chance to raise this with Jason when you met him?

 

No. I didn't really think of it till later. We had other things under discussion, too - mostly Northants villages, history (he was staying next door to Fotheringhay Castle) and a certain Model Rail project. And he was suffering from 'old bus itus' at the time! (CJL)

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