OO layout wiring question

[barney121e]

Looking to use DC on my layout below. Got a 3 track controller, is that good enough to run the layout and if so where should i put the power?

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

[john new]

Looking to use DC on my layout below. Got a 3 track controller, is that good enough to run the layout and if so where should i put the power?

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

lochfeldy2.png

 

From your question I guess you are new to wiring layouts, with apologies if I've misinterpreted that from your question.

 

The easy answer is yes, as you can run that track plan easily with one controller in traditional DC analogue although with only one loco/section energised at a time. Therefore before starting to wire you have to ask yourself do I want to (a) possibly have two or three engines moving simultaneously  and (b) feel confident to control more than one moving concurrently? [given a 3-knob controller is for operation from a single place]

 

Not sure what points you are using but the absolute minimum is put a feed on the input track from your fiddle yard. Simplistically that can power every route you can access directly to/from there; the power will flow through as the route is set with a +/- on each rail of the route set. You also have two sidings (HS & ES) which come off the opposite way. Clearly therefore they cannot get a +/- direct from your feed point they will need to have at least one isolating gap and an auxiliary feed source per siding (Common return). Alternatively double gap and put switched feeds into the tracks between the points.

 

The basics of DC are split the track into sections by gapping the rails and wire one rail of those independently to the controller through an on/off switch the other is the direct return. If you want multiple controller options for each section use a form of switch that allows multiple inputs to one output. Try Halfords, Maplins or similar if you have one near you, they don't have to be bespoke model railway switches.

 

It reads as complex but that plan can be wired very simplistically; after that it is really down to where you want to stand your locos/units and add to the complexity of your running options. Also have a look at the issues surrounding common returns as they can cause problems. If you are using live frog points, as opposed to isolating/insulfrog points, more gaps and feeds are required.

 

 

Hope, this helps.

Edited August 10, 2017 by john new

[john new]

Apologies for the quickly drawn (crude) overlay to your plan but four sections will do it as the very basic option.  F = feeds. Individually switched with both the rails insulated/gapped where the sections meet.  Add extras to taste as they say.

 

Image was called rm layout.jpg

 

NB With apologies, I have not managed to find the above image for reinstatement. Updated Nov 2022.

Edited November 6, 2022 by john new
Photo note.

[kevinlms]

From your question I guess you are new to wiring layouts, with apologies if I've misinterpreted that from your question.

 

The easy answer is yes, as you can run that track plan easily with one controller in traditional DC analogue although with only one loco/section energised at a time. Therefore before starting to wire you have to ask yourself do I want to (a) possibly have two or three engines moving simultaneously  and (b) feel confident to control more than one moving concurrently? [given a 3-knob controller is for operation from a single place]

 

Not sure what points you are using but the absolute minimum is put a feed on the input track from your fiddle yard. Simplistically that can power every route you can access directly to/from there; the power will flow through as the route is set with a +/- on each rail of the route set. You also have two sidings (HS & ES) which come off the opposite way. Clearly therefore they cannot get a +/- direct from your feed point they will need to have at least one isolating gap and an auxiliary feed source per siding (Common return). Alternatively double gap and put switched feeds into the tracks between the points.

 

The basics of DC are split the track into sections by gapping the rails and wire one rail of those independently to the controller through an on/off switch the other is the direct return. If you want multiple controller options for each section use a form of switch that allows multiple inputs to one output. Try Halfords, Maplins or similar if you have one near you, they don't have to be bespoke model railway switches.

 

It reads as complex but that plan can be wired very simplistically; after that it is really down to where you want to stand your locos/units and add to the complexity of your running options. Also have a look at the issues surrounding common returns as they can cause problems. If you are using live frog points, as opposed to isolating/insulfrog points, more gaps and feeds are required.

 

 

Hope, this helps.

Probably best not to wire layouts these for common return, IF there is a possibility that one the layout might be converted to DCC. OK, common return can still be used for DCC, but better to avoid.

[rue_d_etropal]

I agree with where the feeds should be ,but I have found that (as I use Insulfrog points), that wiring up each point as live(continental style and what you would do for DCC) then adding breaks on one rail from each track coming from a point, and a switch to switch it on/off, actually improved running, as you are not dependent on power going through the tips of the point blades. It also means you can run different lines with different controllers.

It sounds complex, but if you take each point, one by one it is not that difficult. As the whole layout can be run from one controller, it is also possible to run it on DCC should the desire be there in the future.

The breaks in the rails in the loop should be the same rail.

Note that if you plan to use electrofrog points then it gets more complex, and I would not recommend it.

[john new]

Probably best not to wire layouts these for common return, IF there is a possibility that one the layout might be converted to DCC. OK, common return can still be used for DCC, but better to avoid.

Agree, hence my suggestion of double track breaks and also avoiding common returns as it causes problems.  Also agree with Simon's point regarding point blade contacts but that adds complexity to what reads as a beginners query.

 

I learnt my wiring basics on 3-rail common return, 2-rail back then was a dark art. Now, after it all got easier, along comes DCC to complicate it all back again (I will stick to analogue for now).

Edited August 11, 2017 by john new

[barney121e]

Apologies for the quickly drawn (crude) overlay to your plan but four sections will do it as the very basic option.  F = feeds. Individually switched with both the rails insulated/gapped where the sections meet.  Add extras to taste as they say.rm layout.jpg

 

Thanks for all the replies. Electrics is a dark art to me. I understand DCC, which my n gauge layout use a lot easier.

 

As for highlighted plan, wouldn't I need four controllers as there are four connections. I am using electrofrog points so will insulate the V's, anywhere else I need to insulate?

[john new]

Thanks for all the replies. Electrics is a dark art to me. I understand DCC, which my n gauge layout use a lot easier.

 

As for highlighted plan, wouldn't I need four controllers as there are four connections. I am using electrofrog points so will insulate the V's, anywhere else I need to insulate?

No, other than perhaps extra sections in the sidings such as for the Eng Shed to park locomotives.  You will only need one controller connected up until such time as you want to run a second locomotive SIMULTANEOUSLY with the first. Each locomotive would then need to be on separated sections fed independently by its' own controller.

 

You can have more than one loco on the layout (but using only one controller) provided the one not running can be made electrically dead by having the section of track it is on switched out. With analogue that is done through the track power, I don't use DCC but understand that the equivalent action is done by offing its' code number in the controller.

 

Examples. (One controller) With a shunter in the ES or anywhere on the green bits provided that feed is switched off a train can run in from the fiddle yard through the red and stop with engine on blue. If you then switch out the blue your second loco can be given power on green and run anywhere except onto blue, perhaps onto the arrived stock and shunt it or take it out again to the fiddle yard. Switch out the fiddle yard siding and then your loco on blue can be again made live and run to anywhere. Alternatively with red & blue live that first loco could run round the train and go out again. With blue and green both dead you could even run a third loco/DMU into the bay platform as changing the points would isolate that one once in.

 

(Two controllers connected) If you have a switch with centre off you could feed any section from either controller. Therefore a train, perhaps a DMU or steam push-pull set, could be run in/out of the station using the blue & red sections on controller A whilst you are shunting the yard with the green & black sections live powered off controller B. In this scenario your DMU could perhaps be on a shuttle module; adding a third siding in the green segment at the left hand end would also add you  an Inglenook shunting puzzle option for goods traffic whilst the passenger service runs automated.

 

As an extra - I found with the PECO electro frog point I added on my Pebbles End layout it did need the extra switch mounting onto the PECO point motor.

Edited August 11, 2017 by john new

[Ron Solly]

Could wire the layout for cab control http://rail.felgall.com/cc.htm  which allows any controller to work in any section.

[kevinlms]

Could wire the layout for cab control http://rail.felgall.com/cc.htm  which allows any controller to work in any section.

This link?

 

http://rail.felgall.com/cc.htm

[Ron Solly]

Yes thanks Kevin, I don't know what happened with my copy & paste.

[Junctionmad]

Probably best not to wire layouts these for common return, IF there is a possibility that one the layout might be converted to DCC. OK, common return can still be used for DCC, but better to avoid.

 

DCC IS common return ! ( and common feed as well ) 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

Thanks for all the replies. Electrics is a dark art to me. I understand DCC, which my n gauge layout use a lot easier.

 

As for highlighted plan, wouldn't I need four controllers as there are four connections. I am using electrofrog points so will insulate the V's, anywhere else I need to insulate?

why not wire it for DC cab control , say using two controllers  ( not common return) 

 

Your layouts needs 4 feeds as per John New 

 

but if you wire each of those sections to a DPDT switch and hence then allow you to connect   controller A and controller B to sections as required.  This lets you drive a loco around the track on one controller rather then having to synchronise controllers when you want to drive across controller areas 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Junctionmad

[Pete the Elaner]

I completely agree with the above about cab control. You would only need 4 controllers if you want to control 4 locos at the same time. I doubt you will ever need to do this.

Another way to explain cab control is that you would wire 4 sections then select the controller from the section. Ensure each section is isolated from each other then you will have none of the back-feeding & synchronising you would have if each section has its own controller.

You also need less controllers & if 1 fails, you can just run everything from 1.

[Chimer]

Here's a wiring diagram to illustrate the above two posts, showing 2 sections switched to the same controller.

 

 

In your case, for "circuit" read "section".  And for "More switches" read "More switches for more sections".

 

You could use 3 controllers but then you would need rotary switches instead of the simple DPDTs (which should ideally have a centre-off position).  But you could never use 3 simultaneously with that track layout.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

Edited September 17, 2017 by Chimer