timbowilts Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Good morning, fellow RMWebbers. I have unearthed an old Sutherland/Cotswold GWR 42xx/72xx kit that is being transferred from "storage" to the "to do" queue as I approach retirement. The kit is complete apart from motor and gears and therein lies the problem. The milled brass chassis block is designed for an X04 motor. What would you suggest as a currently available (preferably 5-pole) substitute? TIA tim Tumber Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2017 I picked up a Cotswold GN 'Long Tom' with the milled brass chassis for an X04 recently, it's working its way up the queue and preliminary investigations have been about drilling and filing it to accept a High Level box and motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Dave (aka Chis) not having a lathe or milling machine I'm looking to avoid anything so drastic as milling/drilling/filing tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 There are plenty of XO4 motors on eBay, or do you just want to avoid using one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Smokebox, I don't like 3-pole motors so want to avoid an X04 per se Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Is a small amount of hand filing to open out the existing slot in the block to allow access for a modern fold up two (or more) stage gearbox really unacceptable? It will result in a drive much superior to the best five pole XO4 equivalent you might find, directly driving the axle (MW005 or Romford 'Bulldog' were two such once readily available). A fold up gearbox inside a model of this size will probably permit a motor like the Canon 1833 to be installed, if that is any temptation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Something like this that fits into the slot may fit the bill. http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/Motors%20and%20Motor%20Mounts/Motors%20and%20Motor%20Mounts%202.htm I've not used one, but have a similar problem with a few of the older kits that have chassis designed for X04s. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Jason, the only problem with the SEF adaptor is finding the D11/D13 motor to use it with - just looked on Ebay, zilch :^) Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted August 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Good morning, fellow RMWebbers. I have unearthed an old Sutherland/Cotswold GWR 42xx/72xx kit that is being transferred from "storage" to the "to do" queue as I approach retirement. The kit is complete apart from motor and gears and therein lies the problem. The milled brass chassis block is designed for an X04 motor. What would you suggest as a currently available (preferably 5-pole) substitute? TIA tim Tumber Would also like to know if you can get X04 straight replacements without faffing about with EBay. Got some elderly Tri-ang chassis and bodies with motors missing parts. Also they work reliably. Given up on EBay other than perhaps for brand-new stuff; too many past problems. Edited August 16, 2017 by john new Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Similar problem with most of the other motors to be honest. The recommended replacements for the D11 and D13 are the Mashima 1020 and 1024. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Would also like to know if you can get X04 straight replacements without faffing about with EBay. Got some elderly Tri-ang chassis and bodies with motors missing parts. Also they work reliably. Given up on EBay other than perhaps for brand-new stuff; too many past problems. Try Peter's Spares if you haven't already. They often have them in. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted August 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Try Peter's Spares if you haven't already. They often have them in. Jason Thank you. Good idea. It is one of those to do list projects; the OP prompted me to ask the question. Edited August 16, 2017 by john new Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 A straight forward replacement is the Airfix MRRC 1001 replacement, 5 pole motor and the same motor mount https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=MRRC+1001+motor&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiO27e-2dvVAhVFKlAKHcCGAIIQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1280&bih=894#imgrc=aPE2u12vFicUwM: Just look out for them on eBay Is a small amount of hand filing to open out the existing slot in the block to allow access for a modern fold up two (or more) stage gearbox really unacceptable? It will result in a drive much superior to the best five pole XO4 equivalent you might find, directly driving the axle (MW005 or Romford 'Bulldog' were two such once readily available). A fold up gearbox inside a model of this size will probably permit a motor like the Canon 1833 to be installed, if that is any temptation. I would go for one of the Highlevel gearboxes, ask Chris for a slimline version that would fit ( measure the gap between the frames) Jason, the only problem with the SEF adaptor is finding the D11/D13 motor to use it with - just looked on Ebay, zilch :^) Tim T There are plenty that come up on eBay, just bought one for £9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 I've actually sourced an Airfix/MW 1003 motor on Ebay. I will fettle up a front mount to use that in place of the X04. Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I've actually sourced an Airfix/MW 1003 motor on Ebay. I will fettle up a front mount to use that in place of the X04. Tim T 1003 is a Slimline which does not have the locating sprogs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I'm sure I read somewhere that the MRRC motors don't work so well in locomotives on account of them being designed to drive slot cars at more or less continuous high speeds. I believe I read that they tend to spin faster than the X03/X04, making low speed control eg for shunting problematic. However, if others have direct experience otherwise then it would seem reasonable to discount that information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 1003 is a Slimline which does not have the locating sprogs Hayfield, the missing lugs is exactly why I will be fettling up a front mount in the manner of the SEF beast quoted in an earlier post? Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I'm sure I read somewhere that the MRRC motors don't work so well in locomotives on account of them being designed to drive slot cars at more or less continuous high speeds. I believe I read that they tend to spin faster than the X03/X04, making low speed control eg for shunting problematic. However, if others have direct experience otherwise then it would seem reasonable to discount that information. There are plenty of X04s and the like available on Ebay and elsewhere and super Neo magnets which improve their efficiency. Carving a milled brass chassis to take a motor gearbox is probably more hassle than simply finding a brass strip, or etched chassis if you really need a motor / geabox. My K's cast 42XX snapped a few coupling rods and crank pins in its brief career with very low gearing and an X04 and currently resides in my scrap box. I find the 5 pole Airfix motors are comparatively gutless compared to the X04 and need lower gearing for main line work. If the 42XX chassis is intended for Romford gears there should be no problem using a 50:1 or 60:1 gearset. The problems come when the Airfix motors are used with a standard X04 gearset. The Airfix have better brushgear as the brushes are shorter and the diaphragm below the top pole piece which can ease the problems with taper boiler to live brush clearance. In many ways a 3 pole X04 armature in an Airfix frame is the optimum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) I'm sure I read somewhere that the MRRC motors don't work so well in locomotives on account of them being designed to drive slot cars at more or less continuous high speeds. I believe I read that they tend to spin faster than the X03/X04, making low speed control eg for shunting problematic. However, if others have direct experience otherwise then it would seem reasonable to discount that information. The motors made by MRRC for slot cars are to be avoided BIG BUT. The ones made for trains like the MRRC1001 are slow revving and a direct fit in a Cotswold kit I am a happy user of lots of MRRC motors in my kits but in my latest rebuild of a A class useing the old brass lump chassis used a slimline comet gearbox and mashima, no fileing required and smother than a old technology Edited August 17, 2017 by Graham456 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_man Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) I used an Airfix/MRRC 1001 in my Cotswold L&Y 0-8-0 brass bar chassis and it runs really well with plenty of power. The milled brass chassis block was great - when the connecting rods were fitted it rolled perfectly and the motor and gears meshed perfectly as well - no adjustments required. However, adding brake gear which was not included in the kit, and finding a place for pickups was tricky... Edited August 17, 2017 by Retro_man 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham456 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Retro man All right I am confused? ? ? I thought and have new in boxes identical motors to fitted to your L & Y engine but there Airfix/MRRC 1001 but you call yours a mw1005 ? This isn't helping as I get confused enough with which is which as in 1001= XO4 but five pole 1003= Airfix 61Xx/14xx slight difference I know but very similar 10??= keyser mark 1/2 double ended between frame motor(slimeline) ????= high speed double ended for slot car but identical to above usely have clubman on the box! Any one else help complete the list so we can all sing from the same sheet, even if it results in a wirring grind noise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_man Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Retro man All right I am confused? ? ? I thought and have new in boxes identical motors to fitted to your L & Y engine but there Airfix/MRRC 1001 but you call yours a mw1005 ? This isn't helping as I get confused enough with which is which as in 1001= XO4 but five pole 1003= Airfix 61Xx/14xx slight difference I know but very similar 10??= keyser mark 1/2 double ended between frame motor(slimeline) ????= high speed double ended for slot car but identical to above usely have clubman on the box! Any one else help complete the list so we can all sing from the same sheet, even if it results in a wirring grind noise Hi Graham, I think you are correct and I have edited my post. I thought it came in a box which said 1005 - but I could be wrong as the box was binned, or it could have been in the wrong box. I do have another identical new in box motor which says Airfix/MRRC 1001 Thank you, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Retro man All right I am confused? ? ? I thought and have new in boxes identical motors to fitted to your L & Y engine but there Airfix/MRRC 1001 but you call yours a mw1005 ? This isn't helping as I get confused enough with which is which as in 1001= XO4 but five pole 1003= Airfix 61Xx/14xx slight difference I know but very similar 10??= keyser mark 1/2 double ended between frame motor(slimeline) ????= high speed double ended for slot car but identical to above usely have clubman on the box! Any one else help complete the list so we can all sing from the same sheet, even if it results in a wirring grind noise It might be worth chatting to Chris at Highlevel, I have found his gear boxes to be some of the best around. Not had time to chat to him about a suitable combination as I still have plenty of spare Airfix motors, but a modern gearbox and motor would be far superior Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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