Advice on my simple layout if you would.

[swiftbeam]

Hi,

 

I'm making a small 10x2 layout of a small GWR scenario. I know nothing about how tracks would be laid or what or where signals would be. 

 

Could you guys please tell me if what I've drawn is feasible?

 

I've tried to keep it very simple, but have still have room for manoeuvres. There will be a station platform, two engine sheds, siding and a signal box somewhere?

 

I'd like to use this thread as a 'helpline' while I build if I may?

 

[Dungrange]

We'll it's your railway, but my first comment would be why two engine sheds?  In general I'd expect an engine shed to either be located at the end of a branch line (which will stable a locomotive that operates an early morning outbound service)  or at a junction (possibly providing motive power for both the branch and the mainline).  As drawn it looks as though this station is in the middle of a single track branch, so why would locomotives be stabled here?  If you want an engine shed, then there will also need to be facilities to service the local engine (coal, water, ash pit etc).

 

You haven't stated a time period, but I would expect some form of goods yard; most stations had some provision for handling freight until the end of steam. This station doesn't seem to have any facilities apart from a single siding. What is the siding for?  Why was this railway built: what earns the line the revenue that it needs to survive?  Give a bit more thought to the type of traffic that you wish to operate.

 

The two loops in the middle seem rather odd to me.  On a single track branch line, the purpose of a loop is to allow one train to pass another travelling in the opposite direction.  As you've drawn this, it looks as though all stopping services have to crossover into the top loop to access the platform.  Why?  The only reason for doing this would be so that a stopping passenger service could be brought into a loop to allow an express train to pass, but you're not going to have such a scenario on a single track branch line.  I can't see a reason for providing two loops like this on a single track line and I'm not aware of any such prototype location.

 

Signals are located in the positions that a driver needs to receive an instruction from the signalman, whether that be to slow down (because the next signal is at stop), stop or start the train, or undertake a shunting move. However, I think you need to think a bit more about the trains that you will operate before trying to signal your track plan.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Dungrange

[jcm@gwr]

I would suggest that it would very unlikely to have 2 engine

sheds, in fact I've never seen 2 separate sheds like that.

More common would be no engine shed, but 1 goods shed.

[Nearholmer]

Swiftbeam

 

You aren't, by any chance, more familiar with French, German, or Swiss practice than British, are you?

 

I ask, because your layout plan looks very mainland European.

 

Kevin

[LlandudnoJunction]

Hi,

 

Well my first bit of advice would be to download some free track planning software as a tool to plan your lay out. I use anyrail 6 which is great and the 50 items can be bit of a hinderence but most small layouts its fine.

 

I have had a look and based on my thoughts I would remove the double slip to a single one. I have tried to do a quick track plan for you below, to show my thoughts on your plan and included a fueling station / sanding area. All this is using peco 100 oo track with your main points at the station being SL-88/89. I have also only accounted for a 4 coach passenger train.

 

Hope it helps

Mark

 

 

[swiftbeam]

Thanks for your pointers.

 

I know nothing about railways, just that they are of huge interest to me.

 

GWR chocolate/cream is my thing.

 

The twin sheds were something I could use to add interest and bits scattered and weeds growing between etc. Extra details would be added.

 

I was trying to create something I could run at a show, keep trains running and have some room to shunt about. The siding was just to keep coaches or stuff.

 

Where can I go to find a track plan and pics I could follow.

[swiftbeam]

Hi,

 

Well my first bit of advice would be to download some free track planning software as a tool to plan your lay out. I use anyrail 6 which is great and the 50 items can be bit of a hinderence but most small layouts its fine.

 

I have had a look and based on my thoughts I would remove the double slip to a single one. I have tried to do a quick track plan for you below, to show my thoughts on your plan and included a fueling station / sanding area. All this is using peco 100 oo track with your main points at the station being SL-88/89. I have also only accounted for a 4 coach passenger train.

 

Hope it helps

Mark

Thank you Mark, that's great :-)

 

I didn't see your post before replying. I only need two coach running as I need a slight amount of country hedgerow running. The 10 foot can stretch a bit I think.

[The Johnster]

Single line GWR passing stations are fairly well represented in preservation, on the Severn Valley and West Somerset Railways for example, and if you can visit one of these railways you will be able to get a fairly good impression of what such a beast looked like in reality.  Hampton Loade, Arley, and Highley on the Severn Valley, or Washford, Stogumber, Watchet and Blue Anchor on the West Somerset are excellent examples.  If you can't, those railways' websites will provide plenty of pictures.  As has been mentioned, loco sheds are unlikely, but Machynlleth in Mid Wales was an example; admittedly this was a much larger station than the impression I have of what you seem to be trying to achieve.

 

Even with 2 coach trains I would make the platforms and loops long enough for 3 coaches as the normal situation was for the platforms to be longer than the normal trains and only fully utilised on market days and similar.  I would try to have some goods facility; a two road yard with a goods shed or loading platform replacing one of your engine sheds and coal pens the other is plenty, but you could add a dairy or similar for more operational and shunting interest if you liked.  I am assuming 4mm 00 gauge, and you have plenty of room, but you might be surprised at how quickly it gets eaten up when you start laying track...

 

Signals would need to be a splitting home and a starter from the appropriate loop road in each direction, and one platform is unusual, but again not unknown, (Arley and Blue Anchor).  But the usual was to have passenger trains passing at the station while they called at it, so an up and a down platform.  The signal box will probably be at the end nearest the entrance to the goods yard, but might be on the station platform or at the other end if there was a level crossing there for it to control.

 

Knowing nothing about railways, though I am sure you know more than you think if you have an interest, is your biggest problem and the more you can find out about the subject the better your model will be.  The good news is that most of the information you will need is readily and easily available on line, and that this site will be able to offer you a limitless amount of support and encouragement, as well as some fairly accurate information and advice on how to go about things; the only silly questions are the ones you don't ask!  You've wisely gone for something fairly simple and straightforward, and avoided the error of trying to cram too much into to the space available.

 

We already have something to go on; you want to model the GWR in the chocolate and cream coach era, and the layout is to be a passing loop station on a single line intended for exhibition use so presumably a continuous loop set up with a fiddle yard at the back.  The rtr trade offers a huge amount of choice in regard to locos and stock, and I would suggest that your first piece of research is into the variations in loco and coach livery that spanned the chocolate and cream period so that you can make a decision about what period you wish to model. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by The Johnster

[swiftbeam]

All very helpful replies, Thank you.

 

Maybe I could model an exact location that exists right now in preservation??

 

I am a professional modeller believe it or not, so making the model to a high standard is not a problem, knowing nothing about railways is!

 

I can copy all day long and get really over the top about exact detail. Plus if it's a preservation layout, I can run what ever I like 

 

So just need to find a piece of railway that gives me what I need and within two hours of Cardiff.

[DCB]

The last GWR stations were built as light railways, the Wrington Vale being one and the stations had 4 points, one each end of a long loop and two sidings, both through and terminus stations used the same track plan.  Many had a goods shed on one siding.

Loco sheds were only provided at terminus' in earlier years, later practice kept locos at larger sheds almost always on "kick back" stubs so a runaway loco could not escape to the main line if left in gear while raising steam.

[28XX]

Arley has two platforms. Highley has only one.

[Phil Bullock]

And highly has one platform but 3 loops! Only platform road signalled for passenger traffic though....

 

Phil

[Nick Holliday]

If you can get hold of a copy, I would recommend reading Stephen Wiliam's books on Great Western Branch Line Modelling. The first volume, of three, in particular, examines the various typical station layouts and has lots of inspirational ideas.

[Anglian]

All very helpful replies, Thank you.

 

Maybe I could model an exact location that exists right now in preservation??

 

I am a professional modeller believe it or not, so making the model to a high standard is not a problem, knowing nothing about railways is!

 

I can copy all day long and get really over the top about exact detail. Plus if it's a preservation layout, I can run what ever I like 

 

So just need to find a piece of railway that gives me what I need and within two hours of Cardiff.

 

 

 

Have a look at Highley on the Severn Valley. It has multiple loops, one platform face and I believe some of the buildings are available as completed models. If you look into the history of the station you'll find that there was a line that ran to a coal mine which brings the opportunity for operational interest.

 

Alternatively try to get sight of the book that details the Banbury to Cheltenham railway. It's a single track branch with lots of interesting stations of different sizes. In terms of stock I seem to recall that the book showed the locomotives that ran on the line and the ubiquitous pannier tanks weren't amongst them – a bit of a blow to me when I considered the project. However, there was a principle cross country express that ran over the line on Sundays. If I remember rightly this originated from Newcastle and would have been LNER stock hauled over the line by a GWR manor but please check this.

 

Really with the GWR there are no end of small passing stations. There are a series of I believe three volumes that show images and track plans of GWR stations, I think published by OPC called station surveys. 

[Andrew P]

Check out Coachmans Carrog on here, it's a Prototype and beautiful.

[swiftbeam]

I bought both bits of Highley station the other day when I thought I had a plan !!

 

Over the last few days I have bought:-

 

X1 45xx

X1 14x

X6 C/C coaches (one is an auto coach)

X1 108 DMU

Highley station

Sigan-Track DCC system

 

I'd REALLY like a fantastic 61xx, but I think I'm going to have to pay somebody to build me the best kit there is as nothing RTR is nice enough that I can see, seems to all be old tooling.

 

I'll buy Stephen Wiliam's books on Great Western Branch Line Modelling.

 

P.S, BOOK NOW BOUGHT!

thanks.

Edited August 17, 2017 by swiftbeam

[wollastonblue]

This is just a suggestion. Assuming that your fiddle yards are not part of the 10ft x 2ft space. I have quickly come up with this plan:

 

 

From other GWR layouts I have seen, good sheds can be located in the bay platform. There is also scope for a second platform on this plan. I've put a Metcalfe small factory in the one area, but you could make this a dairy to allow for milk traffic.

 

Hope this helps.

[Northroader]

If coaches are your thing, why not have a carriage siding/s instead of the loco shed? That suggests a West Country seaside terminus in the summer, or even somewhere on the Welsh coast. Possibly if KIngswear slimmed down or St.Ives with another siding? Then you can have a 2 coach B set for the branch and some through mainliners from Paddington.

Edit: extra thoughts, KIngswear exists as is on the preserved Paignton and Dartmouth, St.Ives also exists as a plain line terminus, great setting, just needs loop and sidings added, so both good for you to have a look at in the here and now.

Edit 2: and there's always Minehead on the West Somerset.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Northroader

[Pacific231G]

Most preserved railways are (or were)  single track branchlines and Google Earth generally allows you to trace the track layout of as many stations as you like. Preserved lines tend to acquire rather more trackwork, locos and coaches than ever existed on the original line and they might well have their loco sheds at what had been a minor intermediate station. Ropley in Hampshire comes immediately to mind  and I assume the MPD there is more or less on the site of the original goods yard.From memory I think the same applies to the the West Somerset, the Kent and East Sussex and several others. On a working branchline a loco shed at a simple passing station would be very unusual without a particular reason

 

In any case, Stephen Williams' books will probably tell you most of what you'll need to know.

[Northroader]

More thoughts, your original sketch indicates a through station, so you need space at both ends to take trains leaving the station in either direction. This is why I suggested a terminus, as space is only needed at one end, so the layout can be shorter, and this is about the most popular formation for a model.

[swiftbeam]

This is just a suggestion. Assuming that your fiddle yards are not part of the 10ft x 2ft space. I have quickly come up with this plan:

 

GWR Branch.jpg

 

From other GWR layouts I have seen, good sheds can be located in the bay platform. There is also scope for a second platform on this plan. I've put a Metcalfe small factory in the one area, but you could make this a dairy to allow for milk traffic.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I like that plan and it even includes Highley, so I don't need to send it back !

[The Johnster]

Highley is a very attractive prototype, and I believe the Ratio small GWR signal box kit is based on it.  If you are going to model it in it's preserved state, then of course any current SVR stock is suitable for it but you won't be able to manage 10 coach trains in the space you have.  It is not a terminus, but a through station with passing loops, of which one IIRC is a siding.  You could manage it in two different ways depending on how you are able to set the layout up and wish to operate it, either by having it as the visible area of a continuous loop with hidden loops 'off stage' on the back or ends of the circuit (we call these fiddle yards, as it's where you fiddle with the trains) or as an end to end with fiddle yards at each end.  The latter can be accomplished in less width, but the trains need to be shunted or lifted by hand to get the locos and freight brake vans on the right ends, while on the continuous loop version they can be left as they are.  

 

Before you start, I would suggest going to a model railway show somewhere and seeing how things are done, and getting a flavour of the variety of standards and approaches there are out there.  The 'large prairie' 61xx would be more likely a 5101 class at Highley, but there is no visible difference (it is a matter of boiler pressure) and the more recent versions of the Hornby model are quite suitable.  You have probably already realised that some of the older ones from Airfix/GMR and Dapol available secondhand are not up to modern scratch, but you will not have to have a kit built!

 

If you go to a show, I would recommend not taking your credit card until you have made some decisions about the layout!  Have a cash budget and keep to it, harder than it looks as anyone on this site will confirm!

[swiftbeam]

Highley is a very attractive prototype, and I believe the Ratio small GWR signal box kit is based on it.  If you are going to model it in it's preserved state, then of course any current SVR stock is suitable for it but you won't be able to manage 10 coach trains in the space you have.  It is not a terminus, but a through station with passing loops, of which one IIRC is a siding.  You could manage it in two different ways depending on how you are able to set the layout up and wish to operate it, either by having it as the visible area of a continuous loop with hidden loops 'off stage' on the back or ends of the circuit (we call these fiddle yards, as it's where you fiddle with the trains) or as an end to end with fiddle yards at each end.  The latter can be accomplished in less width, but the trains need to be shunted or lifted by hand to get the locos and freight brake vans on the right ends, while on the continuous loop version they can be left as they are.  

 

Before you start, I would suggest going to a model railway show somewhere and seeing how things are done, and getting a flavour of the variety of standards and approaches there are out there.  The 'large prairie' 61xx would be more likely a 5101 class at Highley, but there is no visible difference (it is a matter of boiler pressure) and the more recent versions of the Hornby model are quite suitable.  You have probably already realised that some of the older ones from Airfix/GMR and Dapol available secondhand are not up to modern scratch, but you will not have to have a kit built!

 

If you go to a show, I would recommend not taking your credit card until you have made some decisions about the layout!  Have a cash budget and keep to it, harder than it looks as anyone on this site will confirm!

 

Hello,

 

I bought that Peco GWR signal box yesterday on line, it should be here tomorrow  :-)

 

As for going to railway shows, I attend 14 every year as that is the environment I work in. I have been to railway shows all my life (46 years). I have made and owned 5 railways to exhibition standard and exhibited them over the years. I have more than likely seen more model railways than most. I am also a cabinet maker by trade and a professional model maker now, have been for 15 years.

 

This is a simple case of I love trains, but know nothing about them in real life. I just love to model and watch model trains, I'm not a book person and give little concern about real life running. However, it would be nice to finally make a railway that could be a real life place !

 

The railway will have loops behind with built in turn tables able to turn two coach trains. So the whole railway will be an oval with only the front visible. I only want to run two coach trains, and must have some hedge row running, so the platform must be as short as I can. I'm still not too sure how long I can get the layout, maybe as long as 18 feet x  18" wide. Depends on if I want to take my trailer to every show rather than the car.

[The Johnster]

Ok, you have your general approach pretty well sorted and a good mental picture of what you want.  Operationally, there is not much to learn; trains will arrive from one direction or another, enter the platform loop if they are passenger, and either proceed upon their awful business or wait for another one to clear the section.  Occasionally, a freight will drop off or pick up wagons at your station and disrupt proceedings to stop you getting bored.  If you have 2 platforms (or an island platform) you can cross passenger trains.

 

Making a very good representation in your case involves mostly getting a handle on what liveries are correct for which periods; as a very oversimplified guide, the GW after the 1914-18 war splits into 3 loco livery periods, all unlined green, firstly the 1920s and early 30s with 'GREAT WESTERN' in their Egyptian Serif lettering on the tank sides, early 30s to 1942 with the GWR 'shirtbutton' monogram, and 1942 to BR with G W R, back to the Egyptian Serif.  Coaches are your desired chocolate and cream, the 'shirtbutton' being used in the appropriate period, with some being painted brown with orange lining as an austerity measure during the later part of WW2.  All these liveries overlapped as repaints were not done until overhauls.  Wagons are going to be mostly the grey livery with the large G W branding and some form other companies, the later your period the more other company stock as common user arrangements came into operation, and private owner for the mineral and tank wagons.  Weathering is up to you, but needs to be, in general, heavier in later periods and things got seriously dirty during WW2 and later.  RTR stock will, or should, be finished in correct liveries for their periods, but you may want to avoid certain unlikely combinations.

 

All trains should have brake vans if they are freight and guard's accommodation if passenger; on a 2 coach passenger train the guard's van does not need to be at the back.

 

Not sure the Peco signalbox is correct for Highley, but the small brick base Ratio one is, and makes up into a lovely little thing, but do not be caught out be the very slightly different sizes and shapes of the sliding windows like I was; the instructions are not clear enough and even a professional modelmaker might be tricked into getting it wrong!  Ratio are marketed by Peco and you have probably got the right one...

[swiftbeam]

Hi Johnster,

 

That's awesome info, thank you very much, that's all the sort of info I know nothing about :-) As well as track plans and signals!

 

I will take a pic of all the bits I have so far when it's all here in one place. The one item I've got coming that I think will be a problem is the Bachmann 108 DMU in green with speed whiskers. The problem is I love it !!

 

This is why I thought of preservation? I could create a 'now' situation where almost anything goes! Plus I could make it totally to scale and correct for a point in time with pictures on the day. I could even get the cars in the right places in the right colours! even the people in the same place !! :-0

 

But if what I have already fits a point in time, I can make it correct to time period :-) Then I could place a nice classic coach or bus, love the classic busses!!