Stripping paint using brake fluid

[Foden]

I've been repainting some old lima diesels for a while now, and been using a method of a 24hr dunk in brake fluid to strip the paint. It's worked wonders, and as I'm a mechanic the brake fluid is free (well, sort of, it's through my business for very little!)

Now I have more confidence, I'm moving onto one of my 'proper' models, a Hornby class 31 infact, that I'll be re-spraying from the modern DCR livery into BR Civil Dutch livery.

My question is this, is my method of stripping the paint going to be safe for the light lenses on the body? Obviously I'll be removing glazing as I have with the Lima models, however all the Lima models I've been using as guinea pigs had painted on lights, so this hasn't been a concern.

Unless I'm mistaken, the lights on the Hornby (full fat. not Railroad) model are fitted into the bodyshell, and are not removeable?

[Foden]

Excellent, exactly the advice I was after, thanks for sharing.

[Titan]

 A lick of Humbrol Clear Gloss on the glazing by brush will bring back full opacity, if there's any frosting, 

 

R. 

 

I hope you mean translucency! 

[tractor_37260]

I've been repainting some old lima diesels for a while now, and been using a method of a 24hr dunk in brake fluid to strip the paint. It's worked wonders, and as I'm a mechanic the brake fluid is free (well, sort of, it's through my business for very little!)

 

Now I have more confidence, I'm moving onto one of my 'proper' models, a Hornby class 31 infact, that I'll be re-spraying from the modern DCR livery into BR Civil Dutch livery.

 

My question is this, is my method of stripping the paint going to be safe for the light lenses on the body? Obviously I'll be removing glazing as I have with the Lima models, however all the Lima models I've been using as guinea pigs had painted on lights, so this hasn't been a concern.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, the lights on the Hornby (full fat. not Railroad) model are fitted into the bodyshell, and are not removeable?

 

The original type of B Fluid I found worked well on Lima models, but don't use it on any Replica Railway coaches - it softens the plastic and leaves perfect fingerprints if handled !   - Dot 3 or 4 I think,  never tried the later silicone type. On the FF Hornby 31 the light lenses LEDs/circuit board AFAIK are part of the body cab insert, so should be removable with care.

[PatB]

Silicone brake fluid won't strip paint. That's one of its advantages when used for its intended purpose.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Silicone brake fluid won't strip paint. That's one of its advantages when used for its intended purpose.

 

Nor is it hygroscopic, which is why old style brake fluid loses it's potency for stripping models over time.

 

Mike.

[bigherb]

Nor is it hygroscopic, which is why old style brake fluid loses it's potency for stripping models over time.

 

Mike.

And you will never get paint to stick if you get silicone fluid anywhere near a model.

Edited August 20, 2017 by bigherb

[PatB]

Indeed so, which is its other major advantage over traditional glycol type fluids. I suspect it tastes nicer too, on the basis that experience indicates that it is unlikely to taste worse*. .

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, I know it's rather toxic, but when it's 3am and the newly repaired brake system that you need functioning so you can get to work in 4 hours time just won't self-prime, taking the smallish risk of sucking the fluid through from the bleed-nipple end can seem like a good idea .

[bigherb]

I

*Yes, I know it's rather toxic, but when it's 3am and the newly repaired brake system that you need functioning so you can get to work in 4 hours time just won't self-prime, taking the smallish risk of sucking the fluid through from the bleed-nipple end can seem like a good idea .

You need a pressure bleeder.

 

[Foden]

Sadly, the following photos were meant to be part of a 'on my workbench' post, of a repaint, but, to my horror things have gone awfully wrong.

Unfortunately, I can say that brake fluid for stripping paint on Hornby models (or atleast this particular example!) is NOT advised
 

The same method, I'd used before on several Lima bodyshells as tests, which was a 24hr bath in Dot 4 brake has resulted in the Hornby shell melting, and distorting, resulting in it being scrap, pretty much.

The first photo was prior to the dunk, all stripped down and ready. The following ones sadly speak for themselves

 

Can't really describe how I feel about it at the moment, aside from ruining a ~£100 locomotive, this was my first real attempt at respraying a high detail loco, and it's not done wonders for confidence.

What's a bit of a kick is that in this instance I've done all homework, and concluded it should be fine, and even used the same method on a few older examples to give it all a trial.

Not quite sure where the disconnect is between the advice out there (which I'm not disputing, it obviously HAS worked for others) and what's gone wrong, possibly different brands work differently with certain plastics. But right now I'm just rather deflated and angry with myself, and wanted to get the message out there to others.

DO NOT USE BRAKE FLUID UNLESS YOU'RE 100% SURE THE PLASTIC IS SUITABLE, AND THE BRAKE FLUID BRAND HAS BEEN TRIED ON YOUR PARTICULAR MODEL BEFORE

Edited August 22, 2017 by Foden

[37409]

I'm reliably informed that Dettol works superbly as a paint stripper.

[cravensdmufan]

Sadly, the following photos were meant to be part of a 'on my workbench' post, of a repaint, but, to my horror things have gone awfully wrong.

 

Unfortunately, I can say that brake fluid for stripping paint on Hornby models (or atleast this particular example!) is NOT advised

 

The same method, I'd used before on several Lima bodyshells as tests, which was a 24hr bath in Dot 4 brake has resulted in the Hornby shell melting, and distorting, resulting in it being scrap, pretty much.

 

The first photo was prior to the dunk, all stripped down and ready. The following ones sadly speak for themselves

Can't really describe how I feel about it at the moment, aside from ruining a ~£100 locomotive, this was my first real attempt at respraying a high detail loco, and it's not done wonders for confidence.

 

What's a bit of a kick is that in this instance I've done all homework, and concluded it should be fine, and even used the same method on a few older examples to give it all a trial.

 

Not quite sure where the disconnect is between the advice out there (which I'm not disputing, it obviously HAS worked for others) and what's gone wrong, possibly different brands work differently with certain plastics. But right now I'm just rather deflated and angry with myself, and wanted to get the message out there to others.

 

DO NOT USE BRAKE FLUID UNLESS YOU'RE 100% SURE THE PLASTIC IS SUITABLE, AND THE BRAKE FLUID BRAND HAS BEEN TRIED ON YOUR PARTICULAR MODEL BEFORE

 

Really sorry to read of your experiences, but thanks so much for warning us all.

 

I think any paint stripping is fraught with danger TBH

 

I used Deluxe Materials Strip Magic on a Heljan 58 just to take the running number off, as per the company's official Youtube instruction video ("removes paint from plastic in minutes").  As soon as I applied it, it not only took off the number but all the base colour paint with it - immediately, not "minutes" or even seconds!.  No time to neutralise as per their video!  Was left with a big black patch of original plastic, so I wasn't at all happy.  Not nearly as bad as your experience, though.  But being water based, I thought it'd be safe.  Lessons learnt.

Edited August 22, 2017 by cravensdmufan

[tractor_37260]

Sadly, the following photos were meant to be part of a 'on my workbench' post, of a repaint, but, to my horror things have gone awfully wrong.

 

Unfortunately, I can say that brake fluid for stripping paint on Hornby models (or atleast this particular example!) is NOT advised

 

The same method, I'd used before on several Lima bodyshells as tests, which was a 24hr bath in Dot 4 brake has resulted in the Hornby shell melting, and distorting, resulting in it being scrap, pretty much.

 

The first photo was prior to the dunk, all stripped down and ready. The following ones sadly speak for themselves

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't really describe how I feel about it at the moment, aside from ruining a ~£100 locomotive, this was my first real attempt at respraying a high detail loco, and it's not done wonders for confidence.

 

What's a bit of a kick is that in this instance I've done all homework, and concluded it should be fine, and even used the same method on a few older examples to give it all a trial.

 

Not quite sure where the disconnect is between the advice out there (which I'm not disputing, it obviously HAS worked for others) and what's gone wrong, possibly different brands work differently with certain plastics. But right now I'm just rather deflated and angry with myself, and wanted to get the message out there to others.

 

DO NOT USE BRAKE FLUID UNLESS YOU'RE 100% SURE THE PLASTIC IS SUITABLE, AND THE BRAKE FLUID BRAND HAS BEEN TRIED ON YOUR PARTICULAR MODEL BEFORE

 

That is a real shame -  some Replica Railway coaches I used brake fluid on ages ago turned out just like that !  Perhaps Dot 4 fluid is more potent that Dot 3 ? the type of plastic used on the body shell will also affect the results.  I've not used brake fluid since early Lima/Hornby days, just Precision Paints Supa Strip when necessary.  

[big jim]

Bachmann shells don't like brake fluid either

 

 

That was a 170 unit

Edited August 23, 2017 by big jim

[Foden]

The annoying thing is, the first paint stripper I used when testing on the old Lima shells was proper Phoenix super strip. However I found a new bottle of it to be of very little use at removing paint off the Lima body, which lead me to search for a better product, and on the original evidence the dot 4 was exactly that.

 

I was applying the super strip onto the plastic with a toothbrush rather than leaving the shell to soak in it, so maybe the product was right, but the method wrong. Problem is the super strip bottle is only a few hundred mill of stripper, so not really enough to cover a body in a small container, and hardly cheap to buy in multiples either.

 

I'm at a loss really, I'd still really like to persue this avenue of modelling, but this has really knocked me back, and I'm understandably hesitant to take an expensive model and try another method of stripping paint off plastic again.

 

I have however read that certain brands of nail polish remover (missing a particular chemical) have been used with success, and are available in large enough sizes to create a 'bath' for much less than would be the case for super strip?

 

Your advice please guys?

[tractor_37260]

The annoying thing is, the first paint stripper I used when testing on the old Lima shells was proper Phoenix super strip. However I found a new bottle of it to be of very little use at removing paint off the Lima body, which lead me to search for a better product, and on the original evidence the dot 4 was exactly that.

 

I was applying the super strip onto the plastic with a toothbrush rather than leaving the shell to soak in it, so maybe the product was right, but the method wrong. Problem is the super strip bottle is only a few hundred mill of stripper, so not really enough to cover a body in a small container, and hardly cheap to buy in multiples either.

 

I'm at a loss really, I'd still really like to persue this avenue of modelling, but this has really knocked me back, and I'm understandably hesitant to take an expensive model and try another method of stripping paint off plastic again.

 

I have however read that certain brands of nail polish remover (missing a particular chemical) have been used with success, and are available in large enough sizes to create a 'bath' for much less than would be the case for super strip?

 

Your advice please guys?

 

I'd suggest you try contacting Lee of this parish for some tips and advice etc, he will have tried and trusted method's etc, he turns out high quality re-paints by the bucket-load...................

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64736-my-detailingrepainting-projects/page-93

[blueeighties]

I'd suggest you try contacting Lee of this parish for some tips and advice etc, he will have tried and trusted method's etc, he turns out high quality re-paints by the bucket-load...................

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64736-my-detailingrepainting-projects/page-93

Cheers Mr Tractor.I have tried allsorts, all of the usual suspects, Dettol, Fairy Powerspray, brake fluid, Phoenix Superstrip, and various other concoctions.

Some sort of worked a bit, but the vast majority were not reliable enough for using on a daily basis. Superstrip is quite effective, but even that has been overly aggressive and ruined a few bodies.

I now use my own concoction that serves me well on a daily basis. I would be happy to mix some up if you wanted to try it, generally removes the bulk of paint in a couple of hours. A repeated soaking and scrubbing with an old toothbrush takes it back to original factory plastic.

The other factor on looking for an alternative was cost...Superstrip now retails at a frankly insane £72.50 a litre. Even as a business expense, that's too much for me.

[Andy Hayter]

I too hve had problems stripping with brake fluid.  Do not use this with resin based kits, it will soften the resin and potentially distort it 

[newbryford]

I used to use DOT4 brake fluid on older models - particularly Airfix Mk2's

But my chemical of choice is now IPA (isopropylalcohol)

Usually available online for about £18 for 5litres of 99% (I'm only 1/3 through my first container and I've had it about two years.

Diliuted down to about 92-93% it works well on all I've tried so far with no visible effect on various manufacturer's plastics.

 

It may take a bit longer and 2-3 goes with a toothbrush, but it's reuasble and washable with water.

 

Edit: With the obvious caveat of the post below...........................

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited August 25, 2017 by newbryford

[Enterprisingwestern]

Always, always, always do a patch test on any model before you subject it to immersion, inside the body or underframe is as good a place as any.

Just because you've done it that way before doesn't mean the formula of the plastic hasn't changed, a good example being Lima models from the early years, some were virgin plastic and some were part recycled and were a similar property to Bakelite.

Take care out there.

 

Mike.

[DCB]

Sadly, the following photos were meant to be part of a 'on my workbench' post, of a repaint, but, to my horror things have gone awfully wrong.

 

Unfortunately, I can say that brake fluid for stripping paint on Hornby models (or atleast this particular example!) is NOT advised

 

The same method, I'd used before on several Lima bodyshells as tests, which was a 24hr bath in Dot 4 brake has resulted in the Hornby shell melting, and distorting, resulting in it being scrap, pretty much.

 

The first photo was prior to the dunk, all stripped down and ready. The following ones sadly speak for themselves

 

Can't really describe how I feel about it at the moment, aside from ruining a ~£100 locomotive, this was my first real attempt at respraying a high detail loco, and it's not done wonders for confidence.

 

What's a bit of a kick is that in this instance I've done all homework, and concluded it should be fine, and even used the same method on a few older examples to give it all a trial.

 

Not quite sure where the disconnect is between the advice out there (which I'm not disputing, it obviously HAS worked for others) and what's gone wrong, possibly different brands work differently with certain plastics. But right now I'm just rather deflated and angry with myself, and wanted to get the message out there to others.

 

DO NOT USE BRAKE FLUID UNLESS YOU'RE 100% SURE THE PLASTIC IS SUITABLE, AND THE BRAKE FLUID BRAND HAS BEEN TRIED ON YOUR PARTICULAR MODEL BEFORE

 I think the lesson is don't try to repaint a new £100 plus model, get a spare bodyshell from Peters Spares or Ebay and play with that.  You can't be sure what breed of plastic like substance the Chinese were using the day they moulded your body (or  metal for the chassis) so even testing another similar body might not prove anything.  Basically, call me racist if you like, but if it says "made in China" don't mess with it. 

Margate had far more consistent quality control on their materials, I have been using dot 3 and dot 4 for stripping various Margate bodies with little problem as long as the fluid is fresh and has not been exposed to moisture which it absorbs.  I keep mine in a sealed bottle and then a Chinese takeaway container, not a Chinese Chinese takeaway, one from Wotton Bassett.  

However Foden seems to have ruined the moulding by maulering it with his bear hands.  Had he made a doll or fitting, or handle to maneuver the body between Brake Fluid bath and cold tap he may have gotten away with it.  Brake Fluid softens plastic but very thorough washing  in running water, then careful rinsing in warm soapy water, rinse again and let dry can get it back pretty much original strength.

Scraping or even tooth brushing a model when soft will ruin it.  I find thick paint comes off easier than thin.

 

Brake Fluid absorbs water, car manufacturers advise changing it regularly but no one ever does.  In an extreme case brake fluid will boil and you lose the brake pedal, it goes to the floor, Happened to me in a Mini Metro, Pass of the Cattle Scotland, had to pump the pedal for every bend 2 miles later it cooled down and was fine.  

A car brake system will work quite adequately with tap water until it gets hot and then fail abruptly. Some people think this is what happened to Lady Di's Merc.  Probably best to change the brake fluid on your car especially if its second hand...

[PM47079]

I have used IPA on a Lima yellow plastic body an old mainline body from a 45 and 2 Hornby railroad body's from the tts class 47. I have also used it on a Hornby res 86 body. No bad experiences with them, but they may affect newer ones. Very sorry to hear about your experience. It is a real shame and don't let it put you off. If it's any consolation a complete and working 31 chassis with no Mazak damage is probably going to be quite sought after should you sell it

[tractor_37260]

Happened to me in a Mini Metro, Pass of the Cattle Scotland, had to pump the pedal for every bend 2 miles later it cooled down and was fine.  

 

I know it well - your lucky your still alive to tell the tale ....................

[davefromacrossthepond]

Back in the 80s I used brake fluid on an Athearn body.  The results were not good - parts of the shell actually crazed quite a bit and some portions, for lack of a better word, melted.  Since then have used 94 percent IPA (testing on the inside of the body first).

[Foden]

Many thanks for the replies guys, I'll pick this back up again when I find a more suitable and safer method of stripping the original paint!

Fortunately, the chassis is still usefull to me, as I have a rotten early 31 that needs a replacement chassis anyway, the body of which is still in perfect condition.

 

Cheers Mr Tractor.I have tried allsorts, all of the usual suspects, Dettol, Fairy Powerspray, brake fluid, Phoenix Superstrip, and various other concoctions.
Some sort of worked a bit, but the vast majority were not reliable enough for using on a daily basis. Superstrip is quite effective, but even that has been overly aggressive and ruined a few bodies.
I now use my own concoction that serves me well on a daily basis. I would be happy to mix some up if you wanted to try it, generally removes the bulk of paint in a couple of hours. A repeated soaking and scrubbing with an old toothbrush takes it back to original factory plastic.
The other factor on looking for an alternative was cost...Superstrip now retails at a frankly insane £72.50 a litre. Even as a business expense, that's too much for me.

 

I have a bottle of super strip, it was actually the first stripper I bought, but found it less than decent at stripping paint applied to the model, and as you've touched on, is eye wateringly expensive in the quantities required to create a bath.

May I ask if you'd be willing to share the ingredients of your particular concoction?
 

 I think the lesson is don't try to repaint a new £100 plus model, get a spare bodyshell from Peters Spares or Ebay and play with that.  You can't be sure what breed of plastic like substance the Chinese were using the day they moulded your body (or  metal for the chassis) so even testing another similar body might not prove anything.  Basically, call me racist if you like, but if it says "made in China" don't mess with it. 

Margate had far more consistent quality control on their materials, I have been using dot 3 and dot 4 for stripping various Margate bodies with little problem as long as the fluid is fresh and has not been exposed to moisture which it absorbs.  I keep mine in a sealed bottle and then a Chinese takeaway container, not a Chinese Chinese takeaway, one from Wotton Bassett.  

However Foden seems to have ruined the moulding by maulering it with his bear hands.  Had he made a doll or fitting, or handle to maneuver the body between Brake Fluid bath and cold tap he may have gotten away with it.  Brake Fluid softens plastic but very thorough washing  in running water, then careful rinsing in warm soapy water, rinse again and let dry can get it back pretty much original strength.

Scraping or even tooth brushing a model when soft will ruin it.  I find thick paint comes off easier than thin.

 

Brake Fluid absorbs water, car manufacturers advise changing it regularly but no one ever does.  In an extreme case brake fluid will boil and you lose the brake pedal, it goes to the floor, Happened to me in a Mini Metro, Pass of the Cattle Scotland, had to pump the pedal for every bend 2 miles later it cooled down and was fine.  

A car brake system will work quite adequately with tap water until it gets hot and then fail abruptly. Some people think this is what happened to Lady Di's Merc.  Probably best to change the brake fluid on your car especially if its second hand...

I'd like to touch on some points you raise there that I consider rather unfair actually.

Firstly, it's not always possible to find the correct body available for a sensible price (or at all) for sale on its own. Secondly as the visualised finished project was intended to be a working loco, it'd be of no use without a matching chassis. Purchasing a body, then a matching chassis would work out considerably more expensive still. So on this point I disagree wholeheartedly.

I stress again, this isn't the first loco I've bought and attempted to repaint. I'd done some research, and I'd done 5 or 6 tests on other lesser valued models, which this method worked out fine. Given that, the next step for anyone I'd argue would be to pursue the same methods on a more expensive loco, of which I'd want running in my collection.

And the second highlighted point, is your assumption about myself maulering the model with my 'bear hands' upon removing it from the stripping sollution...

What actually happened was the body was removed from the brake fluid via the plastic tray it'd been placed on IN the brake fluid. Therefore no hands actually touched the shell until AFTER it had been removed, and the shell had then been rinsed in (gentle) running water. It quickly then became apparent of the damage that the brake fluid had done to the plastic moulding, after which point it was quite obvious that the shell was scrap, and only then was it physically touched, and brushed with a toothbrush to notice the extent of the softening. You can tell from the pictures of the deforming of the roof, which was never touched or agitated that the damage was done by the brake fluid regrardless of any further handling that occured later.

Your remark that the model was 'ruined by maulering it with his bear hands', is incorrect, presumptuous, and frankly unjust.