dolydd Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I have got a West Wales Wagon Works ltd edition wagon off eEbay, in 'Eifionydd Farmers Association' livery. Eifionydd is spelled incorrectly as 'Eifionyd' (one D) on the wagon. The late - and much lamented - propritor of WWWW told me he couldn't find his source materials, so my question is this: was the spelling mistake on the prototype, or did it creep in somewhere between WwWW and the Dapol factory? Does anyone know of a photo of the prototype? Any info gratefully received. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 It is incorrectly spelt, the company has always been Eifionydd Farmers (more recently Amaethwyr Eifionydd Cyf, and now part of the Wynnstay group). The wagon appears in Peter Matthews' 'Private Owner Wagons', where Pwllheli is also incorrectly spelt in the caption. C.C. Green was unable to unearth anything extra about the wagon, it's probable that the only reference to it is a description in the manufacturers record Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespa Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Living not far from North Wales I have to say I love the place. I do try to pronounce the name of towns and words correctly. If someone has commissioned the wagon and got it wrong then Dapol should have corrected it, having such a close affinity to Wales. I will look through my books and see if anything crops up with the wagon concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolydd Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 Many thx to both of you. Anything further you can find would be welcomed. I didn't quite understand, Quarryscapes - is Eifionydd spelled wrong on the wagon as it appears in the Matthews book? What about youproducing a correct transfer?!:-) I agree, Vespa. Dapol should have checked and queried it. Being a Welsh speaker, I may be over-fussy but I don't like seeing the wagon running on the layout with a spelling mistake unless it is historically correct. Itmay have to get a very heavy dose of weathering!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Many thx to both of you. Anything further you can find would be welcomed. I didn't quite understand, Quarryscapes - is Eifionydd spelled wrong on the wagon as it appears in the Matthews book? What about youproducing a correct transfer?!:-) I agree, Vespa. Dapol should have checked and queried it. Being a Welsh speaker, I may be over-fussy but I don't like seeing the wagon running on the layout with a spelling mistake unless it is historically correct. Itmay have to get a very heavy dose of weathering!! Normally I wouldn't offer transfers for an incorrect wagon, though since nobody can prove what the base wagon should be, I might do some one day, along with some for Elizabeth Meredith Davies of Blaenau Ffestiniog. Yes the drawing is also spelt wrong in the Matthews, and includes an apostrophe which should not be present. book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Are you sure it's not the English spelling of a Welsh word? Very common pre 1974, Dolgelley comes to mind... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolydd Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Well, that's always a possibilty, TimV, since any Welsh word seems to inspire panic in some, but I would have thought that since EifionyddFarmers was a cooperative and the members were verylargely Welsh speakers it would have been sent back to the wagon painters! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 It is incorrectly spelt, the company has always been Eifionydd Farmers (more recently Amaethwyr Eifionydd Cyf, and now part of the Wynnstay group). The wagon appears in Peter Matthews' 'Private Owner Wagons', where Pwllheli is also incorrectly spelt in the caption. C.C. Green was unable to unearth anything extra about the wagon, it's probable that the only reference to it is a description in the manufacturers record Don't rely too heavily on Peter Matthews – his work has a number of errors... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Don't rely too heavily on Peter Matthews – his work has a number of errors... That is a little unfair, Peter was working at a time when the rest of us were in nappies (research wise), I think his work should be taken as a source - but not the only one. Unfortunately, it may be the only source... As for what happened to his collection of photos after he died... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 As for what happened to his collection of photos after he died... IIRC the HMRS was attempting to collect some of his work. But, a lesson to me and to others. I never went out of my way to find out about him (unfit POs were not my scene), and only realised too late he only lived 'up the road' in Luton (I, and a dozen other HMRS members at any one time) lived in Harpenden. The story I heard was he went into a care home and the Council came in and cleared his stuff out to the dump! Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) Personally I don't know how "Eifionydd" was written or its spelling. . But, considering the manner in which 'saes' (English) companies occasionally 'bastardised' Welsh place names, I would not be surprised if such the wagon(s) were lettered "Eifionyd" . e.g. At the end of my road is "Crofft y genau Road" which gave railway companies ( more the GWR than the Taff Vale ) a problem when naming their "Croft Y Guinea Siding" on the Llantrisant No.1 Railway. . However, as I model 1971 - I doubt the matter will cause me too much confusion. Edited August 24, 2017 by br2975 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) The only bastardisation of Welsh was in the Peter Matthews book, the company was always Eifionydd Farmers (note plural s not apostrophe s). For those ignorant of the welsh alphabet Dd is classed as a single letter (as is Ch, Ll, Ff, Ng, Th and Rh), the only letters to doubled are n and r. Edited August 24, 2017 by Quarryscapes 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 That is a little unfair, Peter was working at a time when the rest of us were in nappies (research wise), I think his work should be taken as a source - but not the only one. Unfortunately, it may be the only source... As for what happened to his collection of photos after he died... Granted he was a pioneer and I have cited his work – usually with a caveat where he is the only source. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolydd Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 Two years on and I have taken the plunge, sold the "incorrect" West Wales Wagon Works model, and commissioned transfers from Robbie's Rollingstock which are excellent and have the two Ds as there should be! Worth £2.50 of anyone's money as I'm sure he'd supply anyone else that asks him although they are not in his catalogue, either as transfers or placed on Dapol wagons. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 English loco works were known to misspell Highland Railway (gaelic) loco names on occasion, upset the staff a wee bit apparently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave441 Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) Recently I have started in 0 gauge and visited a shop in Sheffield where I purchased a loco and a wagon - a Dapol make - Elizabeth Meredith Jones, Coal Merchants of Blaenau Ffestiniog, My wife saw the wagon and as she is from Blaenau we bought it. It's a nice model and I assume of the 1920/1930s era? There was one issue that I had with it and still have - whether at that time Ffestiniog was spelt with one 'F' or 'Ff' - this company was using invoices in 1946 bearing the town name of Festiniog. To see how it should have been I recently purchased Peter Matthews book as this wagon was mentioned in it. Much to my disappointment there are many errors in his line drawing though the accompanying text is also incorrect - I still cannot be certain if it should have been F or Ff. Edited September 5, 2022 by Dave441 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I wouldn't know about about previous decades (99% certain the same applies), but the fifties English spelling had only one 'F'. The correct spelling only came in later, as we lost a bit of our insularity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave441 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 The late 40s and 50s were a transition period where both were used. I just find it hard to believe that 'Ff' would have been used on a wagon in the 20s-30s when they were still using 'F' on their invoices in 1946. Not certain about the 'loss of insularity' more than likely a case of 'if in Wales, must be spelt the Welsh way'. Never know one day I might find a photo of it. Thanks for the reply. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 There is no double F in Eifionydd, past present or future. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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