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Bays in an island platform - Evolving a Bad Idea


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OK you win on a technicality: for the eleven months from August 1839 to July 1840.

Yes, but what an eleven months, by the end of it people had started to think "maybe we should merge and form the Midland Railway"

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Yes, but what an eleven months, by the end of it people had started to think "maybe we should merge and form the Midland Railway"

 

Well, no, that happened after the Midland Counties opened to Rugby in August 1840 and the ruinous competition began - but also the mid 1840s saw considerable consolidation with the mergers that formed the Midland, North Eastern, and London and North Western in successive years, so it probably wasn't just a local thing. But the B&DJR did pass on to the Midland two of its greatest human assets, James Allport and Matthew Kirtley, who had been next door neighbours at Hampton in Arden as Goods Agent and Locomotive Foreman.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Been away with no tinterweb, sorry for not getting back to this sooner.

 

That plan sounds interesting Ernie...

 

Valid point on which side would need to be the front, engines at front rather than rear of train.

 

I'm going to mull over this a bit more, it would be a sole operator at home type layout, the continuous run useful for running stock in. Space and reach isn't a concern, I'd just prefer to use track and parts I already have, and keeping overall size down saves it getting silly (I've got a container terminal for that).

 

Thanks all for the input.

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I can think of three big stations off hand with bay platforms in island platforms, they are Leeds, Huddersfield and Warrington Bank Quay.

Nottingham Victoria (ex-GC & GN joint station), built in what I believe was at the time the World's largest man-made excavation, had two long island platforms with a double-track bay at each end of each platform: thus 12 platform faces on just two actual platforms.  Yet beyond the platform ends all these lines rapidly combined, so that in a very short distance there was just a simple double-track tunnel at each end.

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Wigan Wallgate, simple island and a single track bay with platform face either side. Throw in bridges at both ends (West Coast mainline northend) even a small amount of freight. Dusty bin train to Arpley Bridge so scope for classes 45,47 and 60. A newsprint warehouse on the Kirby line opened during the EWS era but I never wittnessed any thing except 66's , stock was bogie Cargo vans. A loop existed on the Manchester bound side upto the late 90's resignalling.A 3rd carriage siding exists north of the WC over bridge with a 60's era signal box in the vee of the Kirby Southport junction. Even a Newspaper train during the night, in my time it was always one the ex BedPan Rolls Royce 2car conversions . Icing on the cake is the loco hauled club train morning and evening cl 31 with 6 mk1 of mixed origins blue/gray ex NSE and reggy rail in the end of conventional DMU era then eth 37's with between 4 and 6 mk2 reggy rail coaches.

Edited by w124bob
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  • 3 weeks later...

Wigan Wallgate, simple island and a single track bay with platform face either side. Throw in bridges at both ends (West Coast mainline northend) even a small amount of freight. Dusty bin train to Arpley Bridge so scope for classes 45,47 and 60. A newsprint warehouse on the Kirby line opened during the EWS era but I never wittnessed any thing except 66's , stock was bogie Cargo vans. A loop existed on the Manchester bound side upto the late 90's resignalling.A 3rd carriage siding exists north of the WC over bridge with a 60's era signal box in the vee of the Kirby Southport junction. Even a Newspaper train during the night, in my time it was always one the ex BedPan Rolls Royce 2car conversions . Icing on the cake is the loco hauled club train morning and evening cl 31 with 6 mk1 of mixed origins blue/gray ex NSE and reggy rail in the end of conventional DMU era then eth 37's with between 4 and 6 mk2 reggy rail coaches.

When I was young the Southport - Manchester "club" train was a Jubilee hauled express !!. The dusty bin train no longer operates to Appley Bridge but a new "binliner" sercice has just recently started from Kirkby to Teeside, running through Wallgate. The bay platform at Wallgate is still used.

 

Across the road at Wigan North western there are two bays (platforms 2 & 3) in the big Island platform (platforms 1 & 4) there, little used now but they are to be extended a bit and used to turn back Manchester bound electric trains when / if the Lostock Jcn to Wigan line via Hindley is electrified.

 

Brit15

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There are a number of examples in Ireland. Dundalk has an island, which had two external bays, now reduced to one. Waterford and Limerick Junction both had long, single-faced platforms with bays at each end. In both cases, rationalisation has changed this. Finally, Tralee used to have a through platform with two bays in the form of an island platform.

 

Stephen

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At risk of stating the obvious bays in an island platform.are very effective for cross platform interchange from terminating trains to through trains without the need to use footbridges or subways,  Passengers can simply cross the platform from train to train, quite a bonus when women did not have visible legs.   The alternative being having to decamp to a waiting room and wait for the next train to arrive or go mountaineering over footbridges or down subways.  Passenger convenience mainly affected the upper classes and ease of operation the working classes so Passenger convenience took priority!  Actually shunting stock could be a bit of an issue but with so few passenger trains in Steam Days compared to today it wouldn't have been that onerous even if the shunt blocked both main lines, might just mean giving the warning to a goods at the box in the rear so it was prepared to stop at the outer home.

 

The idea that the running lines have to be kept clear is a model railway concept, they know exactly when trains are due on the full size railway and they often have an half an hour or so to do a bit of leisurely shunting, or frenzied shunting on market days.

 

The Rugby track plan is a good example of what happens when full size layouts evolve, platforms lengthen, unused connections such as Euston to Leicester passenger lines are removed, and it looks like a dogs breakfast....

Edited by DavidCBroad
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With my Saturday plans changing (thanks broken car) i thought i'd have a fight with this planning again and run through some evolution steps to pick out what works, and what doesn't, from an almost basic minories (plan 1) back to bays in a big island platform (plan 7).

 

I hope the drawing comes out to clearly be seen, it ended up a bit big...... I've tried to keep various details similar/the same from plan to plan as it expands so there's less that's different each time. Also, I've drawn it with rather short platforms and matching length headshunts on the Down Main, that was just for ease of drawing, not because that's a train length limitation, it can be longer!​ (underlined because it's bound to receive a 'those train lengths are very limiting' comment) And yes there's some R1, it's not a problem.

 

Plan 1: Almost a basic Minories but what should be the pilot spur has become a bay platform and some other sidings have been added. There's also enough on scene running line for shut moves to stay visible. I've added a second departure line, the idea being that either Down Main can also be used as a headshunt without blocking departures (although i'm not sure if that means both Down Main lines require a trap point just before the point where they combine and enter the tunnel?!)

 

Plan 2: Similar to plan 1 but I've tried to change the S of the throat to go the other way, and a junction has been added to create a balloon loop Fiddle Yard. Changing that S without disrupting the no-back-to-back curves flow isn't easy, Cyril orientated it the way he did for a good reason...

 

Plan 3: As plan 2 but with more platforms. This stretches the throat by 2 point lengths (plus a short straight before curving back) but creates more simultaneous arrival/departure combinations from either route. Also makes it easier to shunt from either Down Main to more platforms or sidings.

 

Plan 4: Same as plan 3 but with single slips reducing station throat length. Looks smooth but suspect it comes undone with too many back-to-back curves.

 

Plan 5: Something I've attempted before and not been happy with but thought i'd give it a go again, half a very long through platform with scissors in the middle and end bays (Cambridge style). It creates a continuous run plus more passing freight options as well as retaining a balloon-loop terminus layout as well. But it just seems to add too much length and width which makes it feel a bit clumsy. Could save a lot of length by removing the scissors but that's one of the key features of that type of station and would look more odd without it.....

 

Plan 6: Removing the scissors and freight loops from plan 5 (back to plan 3 basically) but continuing platform 1 through as a branchline. Good width reduction and creates a continuous run option.

 

Plan 7: And back to bays in a big island platform! However to me this doesn't feel like the mainline going around the outside anymore, more of a secondary/suburban route. As it's so similar to plan 3, the continuous run option doesn't actually need to be used all the time and could be treated as a terminus. a couple of kickback goods sidings have been added to the front, and an engine shed has replaced the warehouse at the back to help with buildings positioned to hide the tight curve of the return loop. There's enough width at the back that something else could be added there.

 

post-9147-0-86983600-1506778355_thumb.jpg

 

Similar to before, drawn as a long straight layout but could be L shaped or U shaped in the long run, unknown at this time.

 

And after most of a Saturday wasted, there's something about plan 1...Just need a return loop.....and continuous run option..... :D

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There's always the Boston (MA) South station option, return loops under a terminus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Station#/media/File%3ABoston_South_Station_diagram.jpg

Interesting. In 6 platform format it is wide enough to fit a loop underneath the station. I hadn't considered multilevel, but that would work in accordance with the prophesy of not keeping a code 100 test track simple :)

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