MRJ - Looking back at the early ones (for the first time)

[BlackRat]

Some interesting comments on here, and a thoughtful insight from Not Jeremy.

 

The fact that a second magazine became available and did well, speaks volumes.

 

Whether there would be sufficient contributions to make both magazines viable over the long term would remain to be speculation untill perhaps another mag reaches the shelves.

 

Out of interest my town has two good independent newsagents, both of which used to keep multiple copies of the MRJ, as well as other specialist mags.

 

Neither now does so.

 

Saltash used to have a thriving group of about 12 of us, not a club, more a group of like minded individuals.

 

At least three have written and had numerous articles published in the MRJ.

 

Of those 12 or so, I think there are 3 of us left, sadly the others gone to the great fiddle yad in the sky.

 

I recently asked o e of the newsagents if they would consider stocking it again, but there isn't the demand but they will get a copy for me if I want to order it through them.

 

Probably easier than trying to sort a subscription asI don't posses a cheque book!

 

I'm not aware of the demographics of finescale modelling or indeed the amount of younger folk coming into the hobby.

I know of no one locally modelling 7mm like myself, which may or may not be representative of other smallish towns.

 

I have no idea of MRJ's circulation or sales either, not sure any have ever been published.

 

There's always an (un) healthy stack left on the shelf in Plimuffs Smiffs, and the fact I can't buy one in my town of some 18,000 perhaps suggest that in the long run, 2 magazines wouldn't be at all viable anyway.

[Talltim]

IMHO what makes a good magazine is Iain Rice, Bob Barlow, Roy Link and good prototype drawings

Thus the eighties were a good period for mags, although sadly none has had all four

Edited September 6, 2017 by Talltim

[brack]

Indeed, the excellent drawings in the review make it worth keeping. Sadly I don't think there's so many drawings in magazines these days. I've bought a few back issues of magazines just to get drawings and one old modeller from the 70s had 5 prototype drawings in one issue (in separate articles too). Not sure you get that now. Even looking at society mags I get the impression that there are less drawings than there used to be. I don't necessarily blame the editors - someone has to draw the things and submit them, perhaps its something thats been lost with a shift to RTR?

[BlackRat]

Indeed, the excellent drawings in the review make it worth keeping. Sadly I don't think there's so many drawings in magazines these days. I've bought a few back issues of magazines just to get drawings and one old modeller from the 70s had 5 prototype drawings in one issue (in separate articles too). Not sure you get that now. Even looking at society mags I get the impression that there are less drawings than there used to be. I don't necessarily blame the editors - someone has to draw the things and submit them, perhaps its something thats been lost with a shift to RTR?

The wagon pages in the Modeller used to be very useful indeed.

 

I cut many out before ditching the mags at the recycling centre.

 

I don't think it's anything to do with the undoubted quality of some rtr these days.

 

For the return, the undoubted criticism each drawing would get, I could hardly see anyone bothering to do them, probably just not worth the time or the aggro........

Edited September 7, 2017 by BlackRat

[Torper]

There are other magazines available for the "finescale" modeller.  As far as I'm concerned, the magazine i now look forward to most is the truly excellent Scalefour News, curently edited by Tim Venton and sent five times a year to members of the Scalefour Society.  Even if I ignored all the other benefits of being a member of the Society I'd still subscribe every year if only for the magazine.  Other "niche" societies also have their own magazines, also I'm sure very good.

 

DT

[Compound2632]

All that said, I do myself think there is scope for (another) magazine in "MRJ territory" as I believe Bob demonstrated before his very sad passing. I doubt such a magazine would "damage" any other though, it's highly unlikely to be on the shelves of WH Smith and as far as MRJ readers go, I suspect they'd buy both.

 

When Finescale Review came out and I was selling quite a lot of it, I didn't notice any corresponding drop in sales of MRJ and don't think there ever would have been. I doubt very much that it touched any of the mainstream magazine's sales either.

 

If FRMR had continued, I would be buying both. In fact I did take out a subscription.

 

I should very much like a magazine entitled Pre-Grouping Pedant, to sell at 5 Guineas an issue and be printed on best art paper.

 

Sign me up for that. Very reasonable price, presuming it would be quarterly.

[Poggy1165]

I suspect one reason there are fewer scale drawings about these days is that there are fewer people are capable of drawing them. It's rather like finding someone capable of making a master for casting purposes - they exist, but are increasingly rare, like clog makers. 

 

There's nothing I like better than a good drawing. Even if it's of something I have no prospect of ever wanting to build. The best place to find them though is in old magazines, including old magazines relating to the prototype. New ones are few and far between.

[Phil Parker]

I suspect one reason there are fewer scale drawings about these days is that there are fewer people are capable of drawing them. It's rather like finding someone capable of making a master for casting purposes - they exist, but are increasingly rare, like clog makers. 

 

There's nothing I like better than a good drawing. Even if it's of something I have no prospect of ever wanting to build. The best place to find them though is in old magazines, including old magazines relating to the prototype. New ones are few and far between.

 

It's simpler than that, as Dibber often explains, it all comes down to money. Drawings attaract the same page rate as any other content so unless you are willing to do all the research and then draw something up, a process likely to take several days, for less than 100 quid (quite a bit less in some cases) then you are out of luck.

 

There's no evidence that the majority of modellers would see a drawing as anything other than page decoration nowadays. So few will even contemplate a kit build, never mind getting the piercing saw and some metal out, that spending a lot of the budget on quality drawings would seem a waste. Arguably, well-reproduced prototype photos are more use now.

[Regularity]

Rotating MRJ editorwise, yes I agree if a brilliant full time editor were available, but I've got a feeling that such an individual doesn't currently exist. The rotating editors do bring lots of benefits though,

 

I do wonder if there be slightly more continuity (and adherence to deadlines!) if they had a managing editor: Barry Norman would be good in such a role, I think.

Who knows what the future holds, I for one sure hope it isn't the same as the past - wouldn't that be a bit boring?

 

Simon

Great post: unfortunately we are only able to give one rating, but it was agreeable, likeable, well constructed and informative, so it deserved 4!

[Phil Parker]

It strikes me that the main difference between the mainstream magazines and MRJ, NG&IR and Bob's Finescale Review is really more one of style than content.

 

If I were Phil Parker I might by now be banging my head against a brick wall after receiving endless advice to try doing something that I was already doing(!) I suspect that style-wise if you work for a commercial organisation then you are bound to be more or less producing things to their "style" and quite possibly have little influence in this area.

 

Whereas MRJ NG&IR and actually Railway Modeller too do not have this "problem". (If such it be)

 

 

You aren't wrong about the endless advice to do something already being done. The classic is loco kit building - I've done it in several materials in both Hornby and BRM magazines, but had etched brass (a material that scares many modellers) described as "mundane" a couple of years ago by one RMwebber. In BRM, Tony Wright build "Big Bertha" recently and we'll be covering the painting of it soon. In fact there are two bow-pen weilding articles vying for space at the momnent. Modern magazines cover a huge variety of  projects (Victorian cattle wagon? Done it) but we all do our level best to pitch them in a way the average reader can follow. This isn't some corporate imposed style, more doing what seems to work for the largest number of people, many of whom are quite happy just running trains. Sorry, but a pound from their pocket is worth just as much as a pound from a fine scale modellers pocket and there are more of the former so for commercial reasons, we tend to aim at the majority of potential readers. Hopefully, those with more skills will find something to inspire them, I always try to include unusual or interesting techniques where I can, but ultimately pages have to be filled.

 

Which brings me back to my challenge for people to suggest actual articles they would like to read. The results after nearly two days are: none.

 

We are simply engaged in a circular "blue sky" thinking discussion where everyone wants "something" to be done, but can't actually pin down "something" in any meaningful way. I'm not surprised, the model railway world has moved on a great deal from the early days of MRJ. You would be less likely to do a Rice style re-working of a 14xx now, most people just buy the Hattons/DJM version instead and there are loads of similar examples. When MRJ launched, Wills sheets were the cutting edge of building making and spawned an excellent book (I own both versions and still enjoy the read) but then we didn't have ready to plonk buildings so people enjoyed hacking up plastic and card. Now that sort of thing is in the "popular press" and MRJ has pieces where modellers get stuff laser cut. Mind you, we've some of that coming up in BRM too. Personally, I prefer using hand tools and bodgery but appreciate that my efforts won't have the clinical perfect of the mechanically made models. That's progress though. 

[Talltim]

You ask about article ideas but for me often it's not the subject but the way it is written. The trouble is that finding that exact blend of good modeller and engaging writer is hard

[Phil Parker]

You ask about article ideas but for me often it's not the subject but the way it is written. The trouble is that finding that exact blend of good modeller and engaging writer is hard

 

Finding writers isn't that hard. But without some subjects, what are they going to write about?

[queensquare]

I do wonder if there be slightly more continuity (and adherence to deadlines!) if they had a managing editor: Barry Norman would be good in such a role, I think.

Great post: unfortunately we are only able to give one rating, but it was agreeable, likeable, well constructed and informative, so it deserved 4!

There has been the same managing editor since issue 0, Paul Karau. Whoever the editor is, be they guest editor or permanent as in the past, the way the magazine is designed and put together has changed little. Long may it continue that way.

 

Jerry

[Regularity]

Anyone drawing conclusions from that fact is advised to keep them to themselves.

[Talltim]

Finding writers isn't that hard. But without some subjects, what are they going to write about?

What they model, surely? If they are a good writer then they will create an interesting and engaging article. Edited September 7, 2017 by Talltim

[kandc_au]

What they model, surely? If they are a good writer then they will create an interesting article.

Disagree.

Someone can be a brilliant modeller but NOT a good writer and/or vice versa!

Some people have an ability to write and draw the reader in.....a LOT can not.

 

Khris

[Poggy1165]

I would have thought there were people on this very platform who could write excellent articles if they chose, or were asked. They would presumably write about the stuff they write about on here. Indeed, it seems to me RMWeb is a commissioning editor's dream! 

[Talltim]

The trouble is that finding that exact blend of good modeller and engaging writer is hard

Finding writers isn't that hard. But without some subjects, what are they going to write about?

What they model, surely? If they are a good writer then they will create an interesting and engaging article.

Disagree.

Someone can be a brilliant modeller but NOT a good writer and/or vice versa!

Some people have an ability to write and draw the reader in.....a LOT can not.

 

Khris

See my original statement. My reply to  Phil Parker was making the assumption that he was talking about good writers who were also good modellers.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement. I've seen a lot of lovely layout in magazines where the accompanying writing has not been to the same standard. Note I'm not denigrating those modellers, neither my writing or model making is very inspiring!

Edited September 7, 2017 by Talltim

[Phil Parker]

Disagree.

Someone can be a brilliant modeller but NOT a good writer and/or vice versa!

Some people have an ability to write and draw the reader in.....a LOT can not.

 

Khris

 

I agree. There have been many articles showing beautiful and interesting models with terrible words attached telling the reader nothing. I've received some myself for both EiM and GR. Re-working them can be a major challenge!

 

The problem with relying on RMweb for articles is that you can't always get a balanced issue. We aim for a mix of scales, gauges and topics. You'd need a huge pile of articles in reserve (which anoys the writers who see pieces sit in a drawers for years) to do this with submitted content, which is why most mags rely on in-house staff to fill in the gaps.

[Talltim]

The other problem wth using forums to find writers is that the writers tend to have already written about it on the forums!

Edited September 7, 2017 by Talltim

[Poggy1165]

But a lot of articles in magazines are mainly pictures anyway! There is far less emphasis on text than there used to be in the 1960s. The same is even true of most railway books these days, some of which are merely adult versions of the old Picture Book of Trains that I had as a kid! There are plenty of people on RMWeb who are quite clearly competent writers as well as competent modellers. 

 

How did editors get articles in the bad old days?

 

Wrote them themselves? (CJF certainly did.)

Knew someone? (This method still works, but only for those in some kind of "circle")

Waited for submissions to drop on the mat?

Saw something at an exhibition? 

 

Surely RMWeb and other forums provide leads that are at least as helpful as these old methods.

[Phil Parker]

But a lot of articles in magazines are mainly pictures anyway! There is far less emphasis on text than there used to be in the 1960s. The same is even true of most railway books these days, some of which are merely adult versions of the old Picture Book of Trains that I had as a kid! There are plenty of people on RMWeb who are quite clearly competent writers as well as competent modellers. 

 

How did editors get articles in the bad old days?

 

Wrote them themselves? (CJF certainly did.)

Knew someone? (This method still works, but only for those in some kind of "circle")

Waited for submissions to drop on the mat?

Saw something at an exhibition? 

 

Surely RMWeb and other forums provide leads that are at least as helpful as these old methods.

 

Yes to all. And we do source some material from RMweb but not everyone wants to write a magazine article (very different from a series of posts) or has the time.

 

A good article, even with photos, requires a lot of planning. It's not as easy as you think. As for the photos, they need to be very high quality, ideally image stacked or with massive deapth of field. You are presumably an expert photographer but you'd be surprised at the number who really struggle with this. Each needs to show something useful clearly. A little can be saved in editing but if the original is too small, out of focus or simply doesn't show what you need, then it's useless. The camera is also very cruel and so the photo setup and model in shot needs to be better than you might expect.

 

As with so many things, done well, writing an article for a model railway magazine looks a lot easier than it is.

 

To stick with the photos - the reason old mags were mostly text is that taking in-build photos was hard and reproduction was expensive. Words were much easier so that's largely what you got. Of course, people had longer attention spans in those days we are told, now even photos are too hard and many prefer video. Nowadays, photo repro is easy and we have digital cameras so you can generally check the images of one stage before moving on. I remember doing build articles on film and had a couple of projects which had looked good until the snaps came back from the processor, by which time it was too late. Even then the pictures would always be printed in B&W because colour was too expensive.

 

However, if you really want to be in print then send your suggestion with photos to the editor of your choice. They don't have time to cruise the Internet looking for stuff so you need to be proactive. If you are, this also indicates that you'll actually produce results. It's amazing the number who promise a piece and never deliver. 

[chrisf]

On the subject of articles, I have noticed an increasing tendency for layouts to be described by staff writers in conversation with the builder.  Is there any particular reason for this development?

 

Chris

[Phil Parker]

On the subject of articles, I have noticed an increasing tendency for layouts to be described by staff writers in conversation with the builder.  Is there any particular reason for this development?

 

Chris

 

The only reason we've done this in BRM is for an owner who dyslexia meant he didn't feel confident to write the article but whose layout we still wanted to bring to our readers. Generally though, we don't do this. You must be reading other magazines and would need to ask them. 

[chrisf]

Thanks, Phil.  It was Model Rail that I had in mind.  I do read BRM as well, honest guv [and Hornby Mag, and the Modeller, and MRJ ...]

 

Chris