Clayton

[Chuffer Davies]

Frank and Chris,

 

Just a quick note to say how much I enjoyed reading about your project in the last MRJ. The article was fascinating, and I really liked the lengths you went to to get correct ballast. I think your efforts were worth it, as the track work looks superb. I'm also a huge fan of using jigs to assist with repetitive tasks, and that sleeper jig is really ingenious. That point making is also very impressive, shame they are only for the fiddle yard as the flow is beautiful.

 

I'm interested that you chose to model a not very photographed station. My chosen layout location is also not particularly well pictured despite being on the ECML, so will be interesting to see how you develop things further.

 

Keep up the great work and updates.

 

Hi Tom,

 

Thank you for your kind remarks, they are much appreciated.

 

It is nearly a year ago that I travelled down to Cornwall for the ballast and we are only just now finishing laying it on the scenic section.  We couldn't finish earlier because I wasn't quite sure how the track coming off the scenic section would knit into the track in the fiddle yard.  The radius of the embankment wasn't quite as I had originally plotted in  Templot and so the alignment was slightly adrift at the East end of the layout. Its only recently I have finally sorted it all out so that Chris can finish laying the sleepers and applying the last of the ballast.

 

In answer to the question 'why did we choose to build a model of a not very photographed station?' we didn't know how few photographs of Clayton existed when we made the decision to start.  We had every expectation that photos would be forthcoming, so it was not only a shock but also a major concern when we finally concluded we were unlikely to uncover the photos we needed to accurately reproduce the prototype.  Very fortunately one of the archivists at the Bradford Industrial Museum has in the last couple of weeks located five fantastic aerial shots of the station in a collection of photographs by C.H.Wood.  These were taken in 1948 and 1955 so are a bit later than the period we are modelling, but most of it will have remained unchanged.  For those interested the following link will take you to the collection on the Bradford Museum's web site: http://photos.bradfordmuseums.org/quick-search?q=Clayton&WINID=1509055181578 . We have now purchased high resolution copies of these from which we can determine most of the information we need to build the scenery but we still lack detailed pictures of the station building itself, so will continue to search for these elusive shots. 

 

It is quite possible Tom that aerial photo's of your chosen location will also exist in a collection somewhere and so I suggest you contact the nearest museum to the station you are modelling and ask them if they have, or know of, such a collection. 

 

Meanwhile the track work marathon continues and I have now completed 36 points (in 28 days) and have 2 more part built on the work bench.  I was concerned that progress was going to be interrupted when I realised that I was running short of sleeper strip despite having 180 feet when I started this ordeal.  Fortunately Marcway's of Sheffield turned round my order in 4 days and another 90ft of sleeper strip has landed on my doormat today.  Hopefully this will be sufficient to complete the remaining point work for the fiddle yard.  At the same time in the club rooms whilst I continue building fiddle yard base boards (3 down - 6 to go), others in the team are pressing on with the scenery and building up the landscape between the end of the embankment and the tunnel mouth in the deep cutting (Oh, and poor Mr Smart is still painting the rail!).  

 

Frank Davies 

[John Smart]

Frank,

 

One can manage four hours track painting, after that the quantity of 'track paint brew' is finished and so are the eyes.

 

The brew is much as stated elsewhere, weathering books etc. But some will need a final toning down when the rest of the layout scheme comes together. 

 

I have always admired Mr Kent's Blakeney in regard of the latter, a sense of overall colour. Not the least of Geoff's achievements, as most will know.

 

John

[John Smart]

TRACK PAINTING. Well done Derek, keeping going.

 

John

[Chuffer Davies]

And so we are about to complete our forth year of construction of the Clayton project.  It is some weeks since my last update but this is not because little progress has been made, more that we have been so busy constructing that we haven't had the opportunity to clear the decks and take some decent photographs.  As today is the last day this year that we can get access to our clubrooms I decided the best thing to do was to take some shots on my phone to give you an idea of how things are progressing.

The first item to report is that I'm pleased to say that I completed my track building marathon a week ahead of schedule the target being to build at least one point a day.  The above image is of the final and most complex formation in the fiddle yard and comprises 2 points, a diamond crossing, a single slip and  a double slip.  There were just short of 60 points required in total.  

Meanwhile in the club rooms since our club's exhibition in September we have constructed all the base boards for the fiddle yard and have now started work on the infamous spiral needed to counter the 167mm gained by recreating the gradients of the prototype in our model.  The following shot is of a bridging board under construction.  This board contains the top of the spiral as well as a lower part of the spiral 360 deg' further on.  The gradient on the spiral is 1:60 which whilst better that the 1:50 at the Bradford end of the scenic section, the radius on the spiral comes down to 4ft in places and so we will still be working our locos hard I regret.

Construction of the spiral under the scenic boards has unfortunately highlighted my lack of planning for this.  The clearances required turned out to be far more intrusive than I had visualised and as a result we are having to perform some rework to rebuild the open framework of three of the scenic boards to achieve the necessary space for the trains on the spiral to run underneath.  Two of the scenic boards have also been raised to help make this space and this will also have the added benefit of reducing the depth of the groundwork needed on top of these boards.   At the same time the tera forming team (John Anderson and Barry Spink) are  starting to build the profile boards around the edges of the scenic boards to recreate the cutting on the approach to Clayton tunnel.

John and Derek have nearly completed painting the sides of the rail on the main line and are now turning their attention to painting the rails in the yard.

Work is also progressing on the electrical front and all the interface boards for each of the scenic base boards have been pre-wired and are now awaiting the micro processor boards so that they can be tested before final installation under the layout.  The electrics are a project in their own and at some point I will get my colleague Bill Wyatt Millington to describe how we intend to operate the layout electrically.  The above photo illustrates a typical interface panel.  The larger relays control track feeds to isolating sections, the smaller relays control either Tortoise point motors or uncoupling magnets.  

 

Meanwhile on the work bench at home I now have the J3 back from the paint shop and hope to assemble it over the Christmas break.  Chris Rogers continues to progress the test build of my Q1 etches.  He has spotted some minor mistakes in the etches but so far nothing catastrophic and so he has been able to continue the build despite these.  Chris is documenting his test build of the Q1 elsewhere on RM Web and so I will leave it to him to post the latest pictures on his blog.  With Chris building the Q1 this has allowed me to start work on the design of the next model locomotive for which no kit currently exists, a J7.  I have just completed the artwork for the n/silver underframes and am about to start designing the brass work for the superstructure.   

 

So what are the plans for next year?  The target for me for 2018 is to have all the fiddle yard track laid and the whole layout wired and fully operational so we can at last have the pleasure of running trains.  I also hope that most of the groundwork will be in so that we can start to model and install the buildings in 2019.  There is still much work to be done but given that there was no track on the layout this time last year I feel very pleased with the progress we have achieved in 2017.

 

Regards,

 

Frank 

[grob1234]

Frank, a 'like' doesn't do this effort justice in my opinion. The track work in itself looks to have been a marathon task. I just hope the spirals and more importantly, the locomotives are up to the task. Just out of interest, have you considered the magnetised underlay system from Woodland Scenics? I think it effectively increases the weight of the locomotives and therefore improves their up hill performance. Just thought it might be worth having a look at if you felt necessary.

[Chuffer Davies]

Frank, a 'like' doesn't do this effort justice in my opinion. The track work in itself looks to have been a marathon task. I just hope the spirals and more importantly, the locomotives are up to the task. Just out of interest, have you considered the magnetised underlay system from Woodland Scenics? I think it effectively increases the weight of the locomotives and therefore improves their up hill performance. Just thought it might be worth having a look at if you felt necessary.

 

Hi Tom,

you are as usual most kind in your comments, thank you!  You yourself have not been idle I see on  your own blog and have piped me to the post with the final assembly of your own J3.  I see you have also triggered an interesting debate on the correct colour for cab interiors.  On the back of this I have contacted my 'go to people' for such matters and hopefully we'll get an answer.  Presently my J3 has a black interior to match the outside livery.

 

As to the use of the Woodlands Scenic product for increasing loco traction It has some merit but the issue is a bit chicken and egg.  Until we have laid track and tested our locos to see what they can do we wont know whether we have an issue or not, but of course by then it will be too late to use the system without lifting the track again.  We have the added complication that the strong magnets utilised by this system will increase the effective weight on any loco's incorporating CSB suspension which could in turn cause issues with wheels rubbing against the underside of their splashers.  Rigid and compensated locos would not be so effected however. 

 

It looks like the limit for most of our models on the 1:50 (at 54" radius) already laid comes at around 19 wagons  which is around 2/3rds of the maximum prototype loading for the line.  I think 19 wagons is a reasonable number on a model, more than this and we would probably look to use banking engines anyway to provide added entertainment to the spectator.  Hopefully we will do better than this on the 1:60 despite the tighter radius in places which would mean that Up trains could be slightly longer than Down trains.  I will however discuss this again with the Clayton team to double check we are all happy with this decision so it is not a done deal as yet.

 

Regards,

 

Frank 

[Chuffer Davies]

The following picture is of the assembled J3 now out of the paint shop.  I'm not 100% happy with the finish of the numbering on the cab side and will have to investigate whether this can be redone without stripping back the underlying paintwork, but on the whole I think she achieves my intention to build a model of a hard worked goods engine over the Queensbury line in the early 30's.  The back head still requires the plumbing picking out and I have a couple of brass gauges and the coal to install but otherwise she is now finished, so I need to get the Q2 to the same state next.

 

Frank

 

 

 

[Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge]

Great thread!

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

Do my eyes deceive me, are the numbers in 'Gold' instead of 'Yellow' mind you with the amount of muck on the J3's you shouldn't be to worried. Nice J3.

 

manna

[Chuffer Davies]

G'day FolksDo my eyes deceive me, are the numbers in 'Gold' instead of 'Yellow' mind you with the amount of muck on the J3's you shouldn't be to worried. Nice J3.manna

Hi manna,

 

The main issue for me is that the 2 middle numbers are a smaller font than the outside numbers which is more evident in the picture below of the other side of the loco. As someone stilll finding his way around things LNER I will need advice on whether the numbers should be gold or yellow, or did the colour change at a point in time?

 

This is my first paint commission from this particular source in many years and I am slightly taken aback that he has done this so I need to go back to him and give him the opportunity to put it right. It’s a real shame because otherwise I’m happy with his work.

 

I’ll no doubt update the blog when I have this resolved.

 

Frank

[Woodcock29]

Hi manna,

 

The main issue for me is that the 2 middle numbers are a smaller font than the outside numbers which is more evident in the picture below of the other side of the loco. As someone stilll finding his way around things LNER I will need advice on whether the numbers should be gold or yellow, or did the colour change at a point in time?

 

This is my first paint commission from this particular source in many years and I am slightly taken aback that he has done this so I need to go back to him and give him the opportunity to put it right. It’s a real shame because otherwise I’m happy with his work.

 

I’ll no doubt update the blog when I have this resolved.

 

FrankIMG_0389.JPG

Hi Frank

Happy New Year.

 

Its now starting to seem like a long time ago that I visited Shipley - even though its only 7 months or so.

 

The J3 looks good but should definitely have yellow lettering. It does appear that gold has been used, although its difficult to be absolutely sure due to the weathering. LNER black locos always had yellow lettering - shaded up until the 1946 renumbering when plain yellow Gill Sans was introduced. However old shaded transfers were used up after this date so if one was modelling a loco post 1946 one would need a photo to be sure of what lettering the loco had, even if it had been shopped during this time. Given that Clayton is pre-war then virtually all your locos would have shaded yellow lettering as they are likely to all be black. Gold lettering was only used on green locos and I don't imagine there are going to be many, if any LNER green locos trundling through Clayton (I suppose a C1 might be possible?).

 

The other issue is size of numbers. Most ex GN locos had 7in numbers rather than the standard 12in because of their short cab sides. 7in have been used correctly on the J3. You would need to actually measure the height of the 'gold' part of the numbers to be sure that the font is smaller on the centre two numbers. There is an aberration with the number 7 on LNER locos, which can appear taller - this occurred with Hornby's J15 model but when measured it was actually the same height. Having now had a close look at the numbers blown up on the screen I think they are the same size. The other visual difficulty is caused by the shading of the foot of the 4 which has the white line in it whereas the 0 doesn't have this and therefore the shading doesn't catch the eye. Lastly its difficult to understand where your painter/letterer would have got a different size font number from.

 

The other issue not noted above is that the buffer housings should be black not red - this was standard LNER practice, other than on black locos shopped at Darlington, where the former NE practice of red buffer housings was continued. So Doncaster practice was black buffer housings.

 

I hope this advice helps.

 

Regards

Andrew Emmett

Edited January 1, 2018 by Woodcock29

[Chuffer Davies]

Hi Frank

Happy New Year.

 

Its now starting to seem like a long time ago that I visited Shipley - even though its only 7 months or so.

 

The J3 looks good but should definitely have yellow lettering. It does appear that gold has been used, although its difficult to be absolutely sure due to the weathering. LNER black locos always had yellow lettering - shaded up until the 1946 renumbering when plain yellow Gill Sans was introduced. However old shaded transfers were used up after this date so if one was modelling a loco post 1946 one would need a photo to be sure of what lettering the loco had, even if it had been shopped during this time. Given that Clayton is pre-war then virtually all your locos would have shaded yellow lettering as they are likely to all be black. Gold lettering was only used on green locos and I don't imagine there are going to be many, if any LNER green locos trundling through Clayton (I suppose a C1 might be possible?).

 

The other issue is size of numbers. Most ex GN locos had 7in numbers rather than the standard 12in because of their short cab sides. 7in have been used correctly on the J3. You would need to actually measure the height of the 'gold' part of the numbers to be sure that the font is smaller on the centre two numbers. There is an aberration with the number 7 on LNER locos, which can appear taller - this occurred with Hornby's J15 model but when measured it was actually the same height. Having now had a close look at the numbers blown up on the screen I think they are the same size. The other visual difficulty is caused by the shading of the foot of the 4 which has the white line in it whereas the 0 doesn't have this and therefore the shading doesn't catch the eye. Lastly its difficult to understand where your painter/letterer would have got a different size font number from.

 

The other issue not noted above is that the buffer housings should be black not red - this was standard LNER practice, other than on black locos shopped at Darlington, where the former NE practice of red buffer housings was continued. So Doncaster practice was black buffer housings.

 

I hope this advice helps.

 

Regards

Andrew Emmett

 

Hi Andrew,

good to hear from you.  I have looked again and you are absolutely right about the apparent difference in the size of the numbers, it is a visual aberration and the transfers are actually all the same size.  Whilst that is a good thing you are also correct in that the painter has used gold rather than yellow lettering so not only are the cab sides wrong the lettering on the tender sides are now also wrong so all in all there is a lot that needs putting right.  This is a lesson to me to do my research and give more precise instructions to whomever I commission to paint my models in the future and not to assume that they already have this knowledge.  

 

With regards the buffer housings does the black extend to the baseplate or is it just the barrel that is black?  I can certainly correct this myself but I am not so confident about removing the current transfers without damaging the underlying paintwork.  

 

Certainly a disappointment but its nothing that can't be corrected, its just the amount of rework that still has to be assessed.  If necessary I can strip the body back to bare metal and we can start again.   

 

Happy new year to one and all.

 

Frank

[Regularity]

Frank,

 

If you are concerned about removing the transfers, then don’t! Instead, try carefully over painting with yellow gouache or enamel. Have a few wooden cocktail sticks handy, cut to various shapes, to chisel/nudge any errant paint marks, and you should be OK.

With transfers already there, this approach to hand lettering is a lot easier!

 

Hope that helps, and Happy New Year to you,

 

Simon

[Woodcock29]

With regards the buffer housings does the black extend to the baseplate or is it just the barrel that is black?  I can certainly correct this myself but I am not so confident about removing the current transfers without damaging the underlying paintwork.  

 

Frank

Frank the whole buffer housing including baseplate was painted black. Your painter is not the only one to get the colour of the lettering wrong. Over the years I've seen many models with the incorrect colour lettering. In fact back in the 80s when I built a J6 I had to use gold numbers on the cabside because the 7in numbers were not available to me in yellow. As Simon says above(pun not intended)its not that difficult to over paint the gold with yellow and certainly worth a try first. Presumably the number on the front buffer beam is also the wrong colour but that is of course far less noticeable and can be hidden under grime.

 

One of the major RTR manufacturers always seemed to put gold lettering on its black LNER locos until I pointed this out to Simon K and starting with the J15 they got the colour correct but I've since noticed some of their other later issues of other classes of locos appear to still have gold lettering (eg the latest N2) - its a real pity.

Regards

 

Andrew

[Headstock]

Hi manna,

 

The main issue for me is that the 2 middle numbers are a smaller font than the outside numbers which is more evident in the picture below of the other side of the loco. As someone stilll finding his way around things LNER I will need advice on whether the numbers should be gold or yellow, or did the colour change at a point in time?

 

This is my first paint commission from this particular source in many years and I am slightly taken aback that he has done this so I need to go back to him and give him the opportunity to put it right. It’s a real shame because otherwise I’m happy with his work.

 

I’ll no doubt update the blog when I have this resolved.

 

FrankIMG_0389.JPG

 

Happy new year Frank,

 

I shall be down at the club on Tuesday night, I think it is quite possible that the transfer's can be removed without too much problems with the finish. If you have the loco handy I can have a look at it if you like.

[Chuffer Davies]

Happy new year Frank,

 

I shall be down at the club on Tuesday night, I think it is quite possible that the transfer's can be removed without too much problems with the finish. If you have the loco handy I can have a look at it if you like.

.

 

Hi Andrew,

I’ll bring it to club on Tuesday so you can have a look at it. I now have the correct transfers from HMRS but will need to remove the originals first.

Frank

[Worsdell forever]

.

 

Hi Andrew,

I’ll bring it to club on Tuesday so you can have a look at it. I now have the correct transfers from HMRS but will need to remove the originals first.

Frank

Very gently scrape with a no 20 Swann Morton blade and a gentle rub over with a soft fibreglass brush.

[Chuffer Davies]

Progress on Tuesday of this week was very limited as only one member braved the snow and made it into the clubrooms to work on the layout - well done Andrew, and my apologies for leaving it until after you'd got to club to make the decision that I wasn't going to risk attending in case I could not get back again.  Andrew and I are continuing to work on the spiral and I am currently about a third of the way through driving the spiral under the scenic boards so more of this when I can get the new boards from under the layout to photogaph them.

 

I did not waste my time on Tuesday and instead had a productive session on the computer continuing to work on the artwork for the J7 etches.  This for me is the only way I can realistically contemplate scratch building a loco with the added benefit that I can make additional etches available to other modellers in the future.

 

The exciting news (I'm easily excited these days) is that Russell attended the afternoon session  at club today and out of the blue installed his mockup of the station and footbridge.  Amongst the research material we have been provided with are drawings of Thornton station, and now we have aerial views of Clayton to cross reference them to we have determined that the station buildings at Clayton are/were identical to those of Thornton so we now know what Clayton should look like.  To mark the occasion I have taken some shots so that I can share them with you - enjoy:

 

View looking up the gradient (down line) towards Queensbury. Please note John's painting of the rails is shown to good effect in this picture.  John reports that he has at last finished painting both main lines and has made a start on painting the rail edges in the sidings.

 

View looking at the up platform from (what will become) the station approach road.

 

View from the station master's house looking under the footbridge.

 

A half attempt at recreating a published photo taken during an RCTS visit to the line.  The loco is an old Hornby 3 rail loco converted to 2 rail EM gauge which has become the test loco for the layout.

 

Frank

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

I take it, that the painting of the ballast, was done very slowly and with a small brush, as this is my next job. ?

 

manna

[Chuffer Davies]

G'Day Folks

 

I take it, that the painting of the ballast, was done very slowly and with a small brush, as this is my next job. ?

 

manna

 

Hi Manna,

The ash ballast has yet to be weathered and is still  in its initial condition as laid directly onto slow drying matt varnish.  

The painting I referred to is to represent rust on the sides of the bullhead rail.  John indeed used a small brush (probably several in fact) to achieve the task, and it took considerable concentration on his part to avoid getting paint onto the ash.

 

Best of luck with your labours...

 

Frank 

[Woodcock29]

Hi Frank

 

I reckon that footbridge is going to look spectacular when built. One of the guys who visited Shipley with me last May has been trying to get me to install a long footbridge on my layout but I have no interest at the moment! Maybe never?

 

Andrew Emmett.

[John Smart]

G'Day Folks

 

I take it, that the painting of the ballast, was done very slowly and with a small brush, as this is my next job. ?

 

manna

 

Hi Manna,

 

I am still painting the track, only one brush used so far. I am rather careful!

 

I will then think about weathering the ash ballast, very thin washes of grey and brown most likely.

 

Then the final washes on the sleepers too.

 

A lot still to do.

 

Cheers to you down under.

 

John

[Chuffer Davies]

Hi,

Our resident photographer (Derek Shore) brought his camera to club on Tuesday evening and took the following pictures which I thought you might like to see.

The following picture is yours truly working on one of three small boards that carry the spiral under the front scenic boards of the layout. The colleague assisting me is Bill (Wyatt Millington) who is responsible for the design of the digital control system for the layout. Bill is also the recently appointed chairman of the EM Gauge Society.

The next 2 pictures are further pictures of Russell's mockup of the station building and footbridge.

Regards,

Frank

Edited January 27, 2018 by Chuffer Davies

[Headstock]

Back in black, or should I say yellow. Almost ready for the local pick up goods.

[Chuffer Davies]

Back in black, or should I say yellow. Almost ready for the local pick up goods.

Hi Andrew,

My sincere thanks for taking up the challenge to sort out the shortcomings in the original paintwork. I can’t see the join which is amazing, and such a transformation as a result. Just the back head and a couple of other items and she’ll be ready to go into revenue earning service.

Frank