TTS steam decoders

[JaymzHatstand]

Best option is to fit a Sugar cube speaker. Much easier and better sounding. I'm doing that on all my TTS locos.

More 'chuff' than 'chiff'

What sort of rating sugar cube is suitable for use with the decoders? I've had a quick look and got lost in various Ohms and such, the most common being 8 I think. TTS for me is probably exactly what it's intended to be, an entry level into digital sound so I'm not really clued up on what I can use with what yet!

 

I'm sure I've read of people also using iPhone speakers to good effect, would that be a good solution for the space starved perchance?

 

Cheers

 

J

[7013]

I am by no means a 'chuff counter' but when I saw a DCC fitted WC doing only three chuff per wheel revolution, and knowing it should do six I bit the bullet and bought a Locoman decoder. Much more expensive but superbly executed. I must confess not being a Southern aficionado I did not know how many 'Chuffs' was normal until a friend went through it with me. Of course as with most things once one knows what is correct it is sometimes difficult to live with compromise. However there are other considerations and price is one, diesel decoders appear to be more tolerant regarding synchronisation than steam. I would certainly consider steam decoders from Hornby if what is certainly a basic requirement (chuff rate) was sorted out, after all it should be simple at the programming stage. I am not sure if Hornby decoders like Zimo can have the chuff rate changed, I suspect because of their price there is a limit to what can be changed, but I may be wrong. I know Hornby are much better at engaging with the public now, perhaps this is something that could be discussed with them?

[Izzy]

With the diesel class 31 decoder - I don't know about the other diesel types - you can change the notch level increments via cv's and details of the cv's and default settings are given. I assume they are set in relation to the gearing ratio a loco has and thus it's speed at any given setting. I understand you cannot alter the steam decoder chuff rates, which i guess mean they don't have a similar option.

 

Izzy

[BMS]

The previously mentioned Hornby Mag article is fine; but is about diesels with TTS and includes speaker enhancements.

 

My problem is that I have a current King, with dcc socket, and speaker hole in the tender; ideally I would like to simply fit the King TTS as if I'd bought it so equipped; however the bits I have for the speaker don't fit in the tender according to my understanding! Obviously I could mod the parts but am reluctant to do that. I'm hoping that my TTS will be say a v2 with better chuff rate at low speed; I find the on-line youtube  Flying Scotsman managing one puff approx per wheel revolution rather poor!

 

Regards

 

Basil

[Foo]

Here's a pic of the speaker arrangement inside my tts king George I

 

Hope it helps.

 

Why it's upside down I have no idea.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Foo

[RAF96]

To get a reasonable sound that speaker needs to be sealed to keep the sound underneath from getting on top. That is what the ring/enclosure is for but obviously it doesnt fit under that chassis weight. You could possibly fit a cap over the weight and blu/blak tak stuff round the edges to seal the speaker in.

 

Picture upside down - did you post from an iPad, if so you need to turn it round before posting or when taking the picture. I'm always getting it wrong being left handed.

Rob

Edited September 14, 2017 by RAFHAAA96

[JSpencer]

I recently recieved the newly released TTS A1 Tornado chip. This to fit in my Bachmann A1 which I brought on the 15th February 2007 for £87 and has been one of my favourite reliable locos ever since.

The model has an 8 pin socket in the loco and is not designed for sound. There is plenty of real estate inside though and I may add working lights to it yet.

I decided to install the chip in the loco (which will make any DCC lighting fitted later easier) and run wires to the tender and fit the speaker there. I am surprised manufacturers do not put chips in locos and speakers in the tenders, instead placing the whole lot in the tender, meaning if you wish to add lights, firebox glow etc, you then have to run additional wires back. My C class for example (admittedly a small loco) has 6 wires between tender and loco, 4 as made plus 2 for firebox glow. Good job the southern used discs (though I gave the tender a working lamp for when running in reverse).

 

The conversion of the A1 is quite easy overall thanks to the space. First unclip the lubricator (bit of wire running along the lower right body side attached also in the middle of the top chassis, I unclipped from the chassis), then remove three screws, 1 just behind the leading bogie, 2 just behind the rear truck, lift off body from the back, slide out draw bar.

To remove tender body, there is also 3 screws, 2 just below the footplate, 1 towards the rear just under the last axle in, and in a really awkward place. Being a 10 year old model and as plastics can get brittle with age, I decided not to remove the axle first.

 

This pick shows the TTS chip and loco apart

 

 

 

Drill holes in the top of the tender chassis. Now the middle is quite thick so avoided that, the dips near the sides miss the wheels underneath completely, are thin and will not affect rigidity, so I drill and enlarged holes here with a 3 mm drill. The steel plates ( there is space in the tender body above) have had 2 5 mm holes drilled. The weights clear the tender sides by 2 mm, so sound should escape, if not, I, ll drill extra grooves later.

 

 

Reassembled

 

 

 

 

 

Drill 3mm hole for wire, there is a tender holding pin not far from here so be carefull not to drill this out in error! Note that I also cut out a groove in the back of the firebox face of the loco, this is where the extra wires will enter the loco.

 

 

Unsolder the two wires to the TTS speaker. As supplied the wire is not long enough, we,ll add more.

 

 

New wire soldered in, glue lightly with neoprene into the supplied plastic TTS sound box, this is to help improve sound quality and avoid the speaker wanting to stick the steel weights a good few mm below of the eventual fitting place.

 

 

Fit speaker into tender roof by blue tack,

 

 

Reassemble the tender ensuring the wire pops out of the hole.

 

 

thread the wire through the hole , then through a gap in the loco chassis just behind the trailing wheels and the solder onto the original 2 speaker wires (isolate them with tape afterwards). Now everything is connected, there is a space in front of the motor of the loco body boiler specially designed by Bachmann to hold a chip, cover the chip in tape and pop the chip into there. Now gently reassemble the loco, ensuring the umpteen wires do not foul anything, make sure the speaker wires from the tender go into the groove on the firebox you made earlier, once fit screw it all together.

 

 

Push spare wire back into the tender.

 

 

I glued the wires onto the underside of the chassis, and painted them black.

 

 

Next step - DCC testing!

Edited September 17, 2017 by JSpencer

[John Tomlinson]

The fitting of the TTS sound into 60114 is a really helpful post, thank you.

 

John.

[JSpencer]

Under DC control, the A1 loco direction remains un-reversed (it still goes the correct direction when I turn the control knob). I say this because the Bachmann 8 pin socket has no indication of pin 1. Of course under DCC, that may still be different as 8 pin sockets are fairly symmetrical and the chip probably does not care what sense it is placed when running in DC mode.

Before being chipped, this loco was an excellent runner and would move off at very low voltages, barely creeping along. Under DC with the chip, it does not move at all until a certain point is reached and then moves off slowly. It is still slow, but not quite as slow before. The loco remains a smooth runner however.
Overall it acts like a DC loco with no noise just as a non sound chip would when on plain DC.

Next test DCC....

Edited September 18, 2017 by JSpencer

[STRAT'71]

What sort of rating sugar cube is suitable for use with the decoders? I've had a quick look and got lost in various Ohms and such, the most common being 8 I think. TTS for me is probably exactly what it's intended to be, an entry level into digital sound so I'm not really clued up on what I can use with what yet!

 

I'm sure I've read of people also using iPhone speakers to good effect, would that be a good solution for the space starved perchance?

 

Cheers

 

J

I use the YouChoos Flame 12  but there is a good choice.

http://www.youchoos.co.uk/Index-Shop.php?L1=Speakers

[JSpencer]

Tested the A1 under DCC, perfect running, no stutter. Sound quality is very good and quite loud.

 

Two points to note. Chip goes off in reverse instead of forwards, so plug yours in opposite to the way shown in my photos above.

It did stall on one set of points at low speed so I will need to see if a stay alive can be added at some point.

 

Overall a successful of a Bachmann A1 with a TTS chip.

 

16 sound functions, 6 of them whistles split evenly between chime and 'screech', one of the latter can be turned on and off.

Edited September 19, 2017 by JSpencer

[JSpencer]

The Hornby TTS sound decoder for the Castle is out. Of the 3 chips I have had to date (31 chip in a full fat detailed 31, Tornado chip in a Bachmann A1 see above), this was by far the most straight forwards conversion.

The current Hornby Castle tooling are all designed with sound in mind, while the previous former Dapol tooling was not. What follows is the latest tooling.
The loco chosen has Hawksworth tender, double chimney in BR colours, though technically as preserved.

The hardest part of the conversion was removing the tender top, after undoing the 2 screws and lifting out the front of the chassis, itself needing a little persuasion, the instructions say pull the chassis forwards to release the rear. In practice that does not work as the rear is held by a peg, likewise the vacuum pipe on the rear buffer beam blocks any forwards movement. I found wiggling the top side to side was the best method to release it. Once done the rest is straight forward as the photoes show below.

 

EDIT: in last pick, the plug has been put in the wrong way around (loco runs in  reverse instead of forwards). Wires should face inwards (I have since corrected on my model).

Edited October 18, 2017 by JSpencer

[RAF96]

The speaker must be enclosed to get half decent sound out of it. That is why Hornby supply the enclosure.

I use a Humbrol plastic paint tin with the lid part cut off for 28mm round speakers.

You can stand this on top of the tender chassis weight or invert and place the speaker on the chassis moulded mount.

 

 

Edit - having problems posting a picture from my gallery on this site. - here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/71888-r2339-mallard-tts-conversion/

Edited October 28, 2017 by RAFHAAA96

[Izzy]

I do hope Hornby will release more chips in due course. Although they may not be to all tastes cost wise they are just so much more affordable and I would love to install some basic sound in my lovely little J15 without the current cost involved with a Zimo version. The tender has been designed to fit a speaker easily as per the King/Castle so I'll keep my fingers crossed!

 

Izzy

[BMS]

I had similar challenge. My King had the DCC socket in the loco. Tender needed modification, weights removed and the speaker could be fitted using the weight screws where the weights were. The fixing spigots needed trimming / removing to allow the tender top to go on. I used a sticky pad to fix one weight above the speaker. Tender body relies on the front fixing screw alone. The speaker leads had to be extended to reach the decoder fitted in the loco, There seems to be plenty of room for the decoder and leads in the loco body. Reassembled loco and it runs OK. Not sure about sound quality, a better speaker may well improve the quality.

 

Trevot

My solution was different helped by Mike Wild, Hornby Magazine. The speaker plastic enclosure is a push-on fit and can be easily removed - don't twist to avoid damaging the connections. This reveals the speaker which fits the  location- after removing the tender weight; position the speaker  connections s at the front of tender. The speaker needs to sealed in place with a thin ring of sealant; I used builders caulk - alternative bath sealant. I used a wooden plastic coffee stirrer to control the amount. Re-position and secure the tender weight; I sealed the speaker against the weight as before. I put insulated tape over the speaker soldered joints and secured the decoder using a double sided plastic pad. Unused were the spacer ring, speaker enclosure, supplied screws. 

[Lenny]

Here's a pic of the speaker arrangement inside my tts king George I

 

Hope it helps.

 

Why it's upside down I have no idea.

Hi I have the King James 1st, R 3331-35-078 with the same tender fitting, I tried to fit the TTS last night and got lost then frustrated, I didn't think of turning it upside down which seems simple enough.  So wrt the fitting did you have any other issues, and did you have to modify the tender.  

 

So I went to the Hornby forum, however the fitting instructions came up with error 440, and this appears on all there TTS steam chips. 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[JSpencer]

Hi I have the King James 1st, R 3331-35-078 with the same tender fitting, I tried to fit the TTS last night and got lost then frustrated, I didn't think of turning it upside down which seems simple enough.  So wrt the fitting did you have any other issues, and did you have to modify the tender.  

 

So I went to the Hornby forum, however the fitting instructions came up with error 440, and this appears on all there TTS steam chips. 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

 

The King and Castle have both the same speaker arrangement. I would assume that the TTS speaker is the same as my Castle fitting post above. If not, it may be the same as the A1 fitting post before that, in which case you will need to leave the plastic sound box off when fitting to a King.

 

Speaker should face downwards (that is where the holes to allow sound to escape are) with speaker wires facing towards the front. IF it is an older version King with the chip holder in the loco instead, then a Bachmann A1 type sound fitting (like my A1 sound conversion post above) will be required.

 

If the speaker is nothing like the A1 or Castle picks I posted above, then it will need to be replaced with a round one (easy enough to solder the wires). 

[JSpencer]

This year, Hornby have announced more TTS chips.

 

S15,

Crosti 9F

Merchant Navy

Princess Coronation,

with others...

 

Now I guess the Merchant Navy can equally be used on the light pacifics as they sound identical in videos I have seen.

 

But I cannot find an original sounding Crosti 9F to compare with a plain 9F.

My guess is that both probably sounded the same except for chuff which - to be polite - is not the strong point of these chips anyway. There is an on-line Railroad TTS Crosti video which looks to me possibly like a generic chuff. Though I would like to know what others think.

 

I have a Crosti non sound fitted one. The chip holder is in the loco, no devils plug to the tender but there are holes for a speaker. Conversion will probably be like my A1 above, chip in the loco, with wires to the speaker in the tender. And if a Crosti and plain 9F sound the same, then why not use it a plain 9F as well?

[Downer]

Unless I’m having a very senior moment, none of these decoders are mentioned in the new catalogue.

[Islesy]

Unless I’m having a very senior moment, none of these decoders are mentioned in the new catalogue.

 

Page 140 for the decoders...

[DonnyRailMan]

Just been looking to see if there is a video on YouTube showing TTS Decoder being fitted.

[RAF96]

There are so many loco types that watching a tube vid would be broad brush guidance only unless you have the specific type being worked.

 

Essentially fitting TTS is the same as any other 8-pin decoder, virtually plug and play, except finding room for the 28mm diam speaker and maybe extending the speaker wires or replacing it with a cube type speaker.

 

The only other thing you may consider is relocating the decoder socket if in the loco to the tender with the speaker. Railroad type diesels are the easiest to install to as there is usually bags of room to play with, whereas centre motored types are much more limited on space and it boils down to finding space for a suitable speaker.

 

Rob

[DonnyRailMan]

I recently recieved the newly released TTS A1 Tornado chip. This to fit in my Bachmann A1 which I brought on the 15th February 2007 for £87 and has been one of my favourite reliable locos ever since.

The model has an 8 pin socket in the loco and is not designed for sound. There is plenty of real estate inside though and I may add working lights to it yet.

I decided to install the chip in the loco (which will make any DCC lighting fitted later easier) and run wires to the tender and fit the speaker there. I am surprised manufacturers do not put chips in locos and speakers in the tenders, instead placing the whole lot in the tender, meaning if you wish to add lights, firebox glow etc, you then have to run additional wires back. My C class for example (admittedly a small loco) has 6 wires between tender and loco, 4 as made plus 2 for firebox glow. Good job the southern used discs (though I gave the tender a working lamp for when running in reverse).

 

The conversion of the A1 is quite easy overall thanks to the space. First unclip the lubricator (bit of wire running along the lower right body side attached also in the middle of the top chassis, I unclipped from the chassis), then remove three screws, 1 just behind the leading bogie, 2 just behind the rear truck, lift off body from the back, slide out draw bar.

To remove tender body, there is also 3 screws, 2 just below the footplate, 1 towards the rear just under the last axle in, and in a really awkward place. Being a 10 year old model and as plastics can get brittle with age, I decided not to remove the axle first.

 

This pick shows the TTS chip and loco apart

 

 

image.jpg

 

Drill holes in the top of the tender chassis. Now the middle is quite thick so avoided that, the dips near the sides miss the wheels underneath completely, are thin and will not affect rigidity, so I drill and enlarged holes here with a 3 mm drill. The steel plates ( there is space in the tender body above) have had 2 5 mm holes drilled. The weights clear the tender sides by 2 mm, so sound should escape, if not, I, ll drill extra grooves later.

 

image.jpg

 

Reassembled

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

 

Drill 3mm hole for wire, there is a tender holding pin not far from here so be carefull not to drill this out in error! Note that I also cut out a groove in the back of the firebox face of the loco, this is where the extra wires will enter the loco.

image.jpg

 

 

Unsolder the two wires to the TTS speaker. As supplied the wire is not long enough, we,ll add more.

 

image.jpg

 

New wire soldered in, glue lightly with neoprene into the supplied plastic TTS sound box, this is to help improve sound quality and avoid the speaker wanting to stick the steel weights a good few mm below of the eventual fitting place.

 

image.jpg

 

Fit speaker into tender roof by blue tack,

 

image.jpg

 

Reassemble the tender ensuring the wire pops out of the hole.

 

image.jpg

 

thread the wire through the hole , then through a gap in the loco chassis just behind the trailing wheels and the solder onto the original 2 speaker wires (isolate them with tape afterwards). Now everything is connected, there is a space in front of the motor of the loco body boiler specially designed by Bachmann to hold a chip, cover the chip in tape and pop the chip into there. Now gently reassemble the loco, ensuring the umpteen wires do not foul anything, make sure the speaker wires from the tender go into the groove on the firebox you made earlier, once fit screw it all together.

 

image.jpg

 

Push spare wire back into the tender.

 

image.jpg

 

I glued the wires onto the underside of the chassis, and painted them black.

 

image.jpg

 

Next step - DCC testing!

................................................................................................

 

Going to have a go at that my A1 Bachmann Tornado.

I have even speaker cable in black already.

[JSpencer]

Ok, the Hornby 9F TTS chip is out (called Crosti chip in the online catalogue but marked just 9F on the box).

 

Now I have a Hornby Crosti 9F from the first batch. The tender is designed to hold a speaker but there is no devils plug between loco and tender (the hole in the tender exists for it) while the chip holder is in the loco. I cannot comment for later crosti batches, maybe they sited the DCC chip holder in the tender or maybe only the TTS version has the DCC gubbins in the tender. But overall, it looks like TTS fitting in any 9F is not going to be plug and there will be some decisions to make.

 

My Crosti 9F will remain plain, but my oldest Bachmann 9F is a favourite of mine and therefore chosen for conversion.

 

If the Hornby Crosti 9F is considered missing some elements for conversion, the Bachmann 9F (or at least mine is, which is not a recent version) is even less sound ready. The tender has space but there are no plugs or wires between loco and tender and no holes ready to receive them. There is also no speaker fittings nor holes for sound to escape. Conversion of the tender - if chosen as the speaker spot - will be like the A1 above.

The loco itself has internal space for the chip and wires. Indeed even a couple of sugar cube type speakers if required. Running wires to the tender though is not as easy as the A1. After much thinking, I concluded that a thin slot would have to be cut into the rear part of the chassis, offset to one side in order miss all those retaining screws. It would then come out the back above the drawbar and would need to swing under it before entering a drilled hole in the tender.

The sugar cube alternative presents some challenges as well. Firstly there are no holes in the loco for sound to escape. Now I could drill holes under the boiler (like my J94) but the gap between the top of the chassis and the boiler lower edge is huge, therefore the holes are likely to look like block splotches on the underside of a weathered loco. The alternative is to replace the chimney (actually the worst aspect of this model) and have a hole there (why Bachmann did not put a hole there in the first place is beyond me). Again the loco is weathered so while matching black is easy enough, matching Bachmann's weathering presents other challenges.

 

Decisions decisions!!!!

 

[brenn]

Hi all

 

I just brought a class 47 TTs chip to try in a Heljan 47....anybody got fitted advise.....links to pictures....how best to fit round speaker?

 

thanks

B