Junctionmad Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Except that, Dude, you are completely ignoring the many lines of code in the PIC. Who supports it if there is a bug? It's a hobby. I'm all in favour of people using the lowest-tech solution that meets their needs. It's s hobby , I've seen layouts with enough automation and computer control to manage the Apollo moon launch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Programming a PIC easy? for whom? not only dealing with the code but design of the functions, software for the PC, leads, connection boards, power supplies. If so easy then publish a full description, of a working controller, with all steps to make it work, with full details of all parts needed. The bits and pieces may be cheap, but it is the whole package that gets cumbersome with digital solutions where an analogue circuit suffices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickertyclack Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 Gentlemen. ORDER ORDER! What, you can't code ? , programming a pic is easier then soldering ! You need to get with the 21st century. Everything " is soft" now Everything is soft now except programming a pic which is hard? Maybe for a good few of us. It's s hobby , I've seen layouts with enough automation and computer control to manage the Apollo moon launch Oh yes and it is obvious to many exhibition goers that this aspect of the hobby is of more interest to the owners than the train set hey have 'built'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickertyclack Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 So here it is, in true engineering fashion, being on the back of a fag packet, 'my' Gaugemaster U controller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickertyclack Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 It's s hobby , I've seen layouts with enough automation and computer control to manage the Apollo moon launch Briefly looked at one at an exhibition recently. They were having problems which they were obviously incapable of resolving with there jmri system. However to keep things moving they had a fall back of a analog contoller and loco to keep the public interested. I wasn't and moved on. CC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 It's s hobby , I've seen layouts with enough automation and computer control to manage the Apollo moon launch Yeah, but your average PIC is more powerful than the computer in the Lunar Module Everything is moving to the Cloud. We'll have MRaaS next (Model Railways as a Service). Pay your subscription, download the app and away you go... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted September 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2017 Programming a PIC easy? for whom? not only dealing with the code but design of the functions, software for the PC, leads, connection boards, power supplies. If so easy then publish a full description, of a working controller, with all steps to make it work, with full details of all parts needed. The bits and pieces may be cheap, but it is the whole package that gets cumbersome with digital solutions where an analogue circuit suffices. Here's "a full description, of a working controller" I did earlier! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53704-smart-power-board/ I like Jim Read's video of his controller. It looks like the kind of control I achieved with my controller. Simple and cheap, but for me, I wanted greater control plus computer control. (Many other features were added as I developed the controller. See Link above.) Any questions/requests for info/code/diagrams just ask. Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickertyclack Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 And here is the amended version.( nobody noticed mistakes then?) CC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickertyclack Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Edited September 22, 2017 by clickertyclack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 What, you can't code ? , programming a pic is easier then soldering ! You need to get with the 21st century. Everything " is soft" now :D I can code all you want. I discovered a design defect in the i8080 before Intel knew about it, but that's not my idea of a hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted September 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) Jim, Thanks for your kind words. I will take a look at your card constructions. I think you will find that Jonathon's controller does use a PIC MicroController. It uses the PIC16F684 which has 2k of ROM (Program space) 128 Bytes of RAM (for variables etc), has 12 I/O pins that can be configured is a variety of ways such as ADC inputs, PMW outputs and many more. It has plenty enough resources to implement lots of features including a software PID - (I don't know if he did though). Datasheet available here:- http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/41202F-print.pdf Although the schematic is not clear (16F604 or 16F684???) the datasheet marries up nicely with the schematic, if you assume a PIC16F684 has been used. Kev. Edited September 23, 2017 by SHMD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Most of the parts have arrived or been found from storage, just case and protoboard PCB to arrive. The case is an aluminium extrusion with screw on ends in black, no transformer inside unit, feed by a16 vac supply. Couple of extra LEDs to show state of controller, and possibly an electronic meter on one of the units. I have yet to try one of the module meters on a pulsed output, it may need a bit of smoothing to give a reasonable output figure. Two slightly different versions, and a CD discharge unit in the third box. Computer printed transfers can do the lettering and scales etc., easy on the black anodised finish. The two units plus the CD unit come to about £12-15 the lot. I also have a PWM type controller already, and that will be cased the same for comparison. Has anybody tied the very inexpensive ready to use Chinese PWM units? 12v to 24v in, 0 to 12 out, that are sold on Ebay, some under £3 or so? I assume they run at mains frequency, so may hum a bit with some motors. I will get one to try out , as they are difficult to duplicate at the price! including double sided boards and heatsinks etc. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Has anybody tied the very inexpensive ready to use Chinese PWM units? 12v to 24v in, 0 to 12 out, that are sold on Ebay, some under £3 or so? I assume they run at mains frequency, so may hum a bit with some motors. I will get one to try out , as they are difficult to duplicate at the price! including double sided boards and heatsinks etc. Stephen I've a had a couple for ages. One is even built into a control system that's nearly ready to install, but I haven't actually tried them yet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 The boards arrived in the post for the UF circuit, proto board 5x7 one side pads around the holes at 2.54mm pitch, which takes most standard components without bothers. SRBP based, not fibreglass, at 30p each. The only thing not too on these boards is have mains anywhere, connections far to close unless the copper pads are removed, giving insulation gaps, but best not to bother, put mains on separate isolated boards. this board only requires 16VAC A plug in breadboard can be used to work out the layout, but with a simple circuit just provide +/- and in / out and work along the circuit diagram direct on to the circuit board itself. I cut standard heat shrink sleeves for the components, and for the backside connections surplus component wire or copper wire in heat shrink or sleeves. As soon as all the bits are here, into production and testing. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 The boards arrived in the post for the UF circuit, proto board 5x7 one side pads around the holes at 2.54mm pitch, which takes most standard components without bothers. SRBP based, not fibreglass, at 30p each. You've been robbed. I paid 10p! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10PCS-Prototype-PCB-Tinned-Universal-Breadboard-5x7-cm-50mmx70mm-FR4/111754971744 I paid less than 30p for these. Much better quality, double sided, and very nice to work with. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5Pcs-Double-Side-5x7cm-Printed-Circuit-PCB-Vero-Prototyping-Track-Strip-Board-U0/282271957075 I haven't tried the 10p ones yet, but for a 20p saving I'm prepared to suffer a little inconvenience . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Yes, there are cheaper, if I waited weeks for FE delivery, and for controllers the through plated can give issues on current if the hole has no wire through it to bridge the pads between front and back. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I have several other sizes on order via ebay from mainland China, but they are listed as about a months delivery. They are the though plated glass fibre type, but as shown as delivery in November, whereas the bought ones came by return post from the UK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Nearly got all the parts for the UF clone, just a couple of items to come in the post. Any body got any ideas for a simple circuit to provide 0 volts to 3 volts max to go with the Busch Feldbahn? Regulators come to mind but the simple types of variable chips start the scale at about 1.3 volts, as the chip needs the power to operate. Anybody got any ideas for a controller for low voltage, I was mulling over an FET type two stage controller, straight DC. output, but it would need experiment to get the pot to extend the scale to a reasonable rotation, rather than having the scale cramped up near 0. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Nearly got all the parts for the UF clone, just a couple of items to come in the post. Any body got any ideas for a simple circuit to provide 0 volts to 3 volts max to go with the Busch Feldbahn? Regulators come to mind but the simple types of variable chips start the scale at about 1.3 volts, as the chip needs the power to operate. Anybody got any ideas for a controller for low voltage, I was mulling over an FET type two stage controller, straight DC. output, but it would need experiment to get the pot to extend the scale to a reasonable rotation, rather than having the scale cramped up near 0. Stephen. Your basic emitter follower regulator like the one in post 4 will go right down to zero. Clamp the top end of the pot to 4.7 volts with a zener diode. That will give you around 3 volts with the pot turned all the way up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The Zener is a good idea, so basically a LM 317 set to give a suitable voltage for the emitter follower transistor and the Zener to set the max. The LM 317 should act to protect from shorts...... All of this to stop the jerk as the Busch Feldbahn starts up, and give a tiny bit of extra speed control! Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Hi Stephen , if you want a non linear scale to the pot to give you more rotation angle at lower voltages , this application note might be useful http://notes-application.abcelectronique.com/003/3-4234.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Found the answer, a 2 pole 11 way rotary switch, which can be set to four forwards and for back, plus centre off..grand total of £2.04...plus some resistors........0 volts to a max of about 4 volts, exactly what's needed for the tiny Busch Feldbahn locos. An LM 317 can feed it with power (or batteries), and perhaps a capacitor to provide a small back up of power. The resistors should barely get warm at these low powers. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Found the answer, a 2 pole 11 way rotary switch, which can be set to four forwards and for back, plus centre off..grand total of £2.04...plus some resistors........0 volts to a max of about 4 volts, exactly what's needed for the tiny Busch Feldbahn locos. An LM 317 can feed it with power (or batteries), and perhaps a capacitor to provide a small back up of power. The resistors should barely get warm at these low powers. Stephen I was going to suggest you might also use the LM317 set up for variable voltage then just reduce the output further with a couple of 1A diodes in series with the output, but your switched resistors should work too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 According to some net postings on the lm317, if you put diodes in series it does drop the voltage, but not to the expected value as it introduces instability, dependant on the load current. Maybe it alters a graph of the exact output as the load alters. It barely matters for model moor controllers, one I did for a friend used the higher power version of the 317, and exhibited the same 1.25 bottom limit, cured by two diodes. It needed them as he wanted a digital voltage display on the output, which of course now showed it had a max voltage of 12v minus the 1.24Volts. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 With the resistors as a switched rheostat it may be best to daisy chain a lm317 as voltage source with another as current limiting control to prevent any shorting problems on the track. All the parts will fit on the back of the rotary switch, no board really required at all. If it was used for normal locos the resistors would get too darn hot! Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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