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Manning Wardle L Class 0-6-0 (Agenoria Kit)


jdb82
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Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0 canal tank

 

Many moons ago when I was in my teens, I built an N-gauge layout in my bedroom. Hours of quiet fun, inspired by my uncle's passion for railways and my dad's DIY and artistic skills, left me with many fond memories. Sometime during that period, I remember reading a Railway Modeller article about a model railway called Ivydale All-Hallows (December 1996), which featured a heavily weathered 7mm scale Manning Wardle. Not sure what it was, but something caught my eye with this diminutive little loco, which was beautifully scratch-built. I knew then that one day, I wanted to build something similar.

 

Whilst my modelling hobby faded somewhat, as university and then work and travel took over, the desire to one day get into brass kit modelling, and eventually produce something of the standard I saw in RM over 20 years ago, burned strong in the mind. 

 

Needing to start off with something relatively simple, I recently purchased a 7mm Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0 (short tank, that would have worked on the Manchester Ship Canal) from the old Agenoria range. This was recommended as a decent starting point for someone with no brass kit building experience, and I intend to 'teach' myself (hopefully along with the teachings of the many experienced modellers using this forum) the art of brass kit building using this kit. 

 

Not expecting it to be all plain sailing, and I'm sure I'll make a complete mess of things many times throughout the build, but I guess that's all part of the learning process. I'll attempt to post regularly, as I love following other people's workbench projects on RMWeb, and have gleaned many a helpful tip whilst researching before buying the kit.  

 

Currently living & working in Brunei, finding everything (or indeed anything!) I need is somewhat challenging! So after a summer of purchasing tools, supplies, equipment and a certain amount of excess luggage, I'm now ready to begin :-)

 

Any words of advice, constructive criticism (be gentle!) or thumbs up are welcome  :) 

 

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The brass and nickel-silver etches

 

post-32089-0-99775300-1504792250_thumb.jpg

Edited by jdb82
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Some general pointers:

 

1.) Take your time to get each part right.

 

Parts will take a certain amount of test-fitting and fettling to get right. Etches have a cusp on the etched edges which will need to be cleaned up. Lots of files of various sizes and types, wet-and-dry sandpaper, etc.

2.) Clean everything

 

Etched metals need to be clean, free from oxide, grease, oil or any residue even skin oils.

 

3.) Use Flux

 

Don't bother trying to solder anything without flux

 

4.) Use good solder

 

Best thing to do is to use solder with a higher melting temperature for the major assembly points and progressively use lower-melt solder to add smaller parts. That way, when you go to add a boiler-band, the boiler doesn't suddenly pop open the join seam!

 

5.) Assemble in sections

 

It is better to assemble things so that the major sections can be taken apart of painting, maintenance and trouble-shooting. I learned this the hard way when trying to paint a side-tank loco when I had already fixed the boiler, cab, tanks and footplate all together.

 

I reiterate, take your time to do it section properly. Test fit (ie dry-fit) everything before you add any solder or glue. It is far easier to get it right the first time instead of going back to make "adjustments."

 

Oh, and as far as possible, work from scale drawings, and keep photos of the prototype in front of you - preferably pinned onto a cork board on the wall in front of you. This will help you realise any mistakes that might occur.

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Thanks for the advice Martin - got most of those things in my mind now; just need to get my hands on some scale drawings.

 

Was a bit undecided as to what to start with. The instructions say to begin with the footplate, however I've read a fair bit of advice which suggests starting with the chassis. Given my novice status though, I thought I'd better start with something more simple and less crucial (?) than the chassis, and opted to follow the instructions. First job was to solder on the front buffer beam. Made a bit of a mess on top where it joined the footplate. I think I'm using too small a tip on my soldering iron (2.3mm) for the larger parts such as this - it seemed to take a fair bit of persuasion to get the solder (145) to flow. It seemed to partly solidify at first, before melting again and then eventually flowing. 

 

Also learnt I need to be very careful where the flux ends up; it turns out that solder and rivets are not friends ;-) A bit of cleaning up with the craft knife, files and fibreglass pen sorted this out though.

 

Next came the valances, which to my surprise, I made a relatively neat job of! The rear buffer beam was attached next. That was the nice 'easy' stuff done - now onto the more fiddly parts of laminating the leaf springs. Maybe I'll stick to my small iron tip for this bit!

post-32089-0-83402900-1504923655_thumb.jpg

Was quite pleased with this - I think I'm using way too much solder, but I guess I'll learn to judge this better with experience

 

post-32089-0-80632900-1504923830_thumb.jpg

 

post-32089-0-55219900-1504923924_thumb.jpg

 

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The advantage of a small gas torch is that disassembly becomes much easier.

Remember anything that can be soldered can be unsoldered.

If it doesn't look right, or isn't on square take it off, clean it up and redo.

Doesn't take long.

 

Learning to tack solder first can save a lot of simple errors.

Also in future always build the chassis first to ensure good runnning. This is not to make life more difficult, but sometimes adjustments are required concerning wheel/motor clearances and it is much easier to do when unassembled.(Don't ask how I know).

 

A final note, there are lots of postings on this website by talented builders with copious photographs.

Just do a search for Sandy, Jazz, N15 etc. Worth any number of text books.

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The advantage of a small gas torch is that disassembly becomes much easier.

Remember anything that can be soldered can be unsoldered.

If it doesn't look right, or isn't on square take it off, clean it up and redo.

Doesn't take long.

 

Learning to tack solder first can save a lot of simple errors.

Also in future always build the chassis first to ensure good runnning. This is not to make life more difficult, but sometimes adjustments are required concerning wheel/motor clearances and it is much easier to do when unassembled.(Don't ask how I know).

 

A final note, there are lots of postings on this website by talented builders with copious photographs.

Just do a search for Sandy, Jazz, N15 etc. Worth any number of text books.

 

 

Sound advice. In future, I will start with the chassis. The only reason I didn't this time was because I hadn't really soldered anything other than wires before this, so thought it would be a good idea to start with something that didn't matter quite as much if it all went wrong!

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Nice job so far Martin.

My preferred starting point is the coupling rods. It is from there that everything else on the chassis depends but there is nothing wrong in building the basic foot plate first as well. On my latest build (A3) you will see that it was necessary to bend up the basic footplate early to ensure that clearance issues with the cylinders and motion parts were maintained during the chassis build.

 

From your description of your solder flow problems, it sounds to me that your soldering iron may not be producing enough heat to keep the solder melted enough to allow it to flow. In my experience a minimum of a 50w iron and 4mm tip are needed. The Antex 50w TCS with a 4mm tip is about the smallest iron I would consider using but if you can lay your hands on a 80w temperature controlled solder station, you will have a tool that should cope with anything you want it to do.

I am looking forward to seeing the rest of your build.

 

Kind regards

Sandy

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Nice job so far Martin.

My preferred starting point is the coupling rods. It is from there that everything else on the chassis depends but there is nothing wrong in building the basic foot plate first as well. On my latest build (A3) you will see that it was necessary to bend up the basic footplate early to ensure that clearance issues with the cylinders and motion parts were maintained during the chassis build.

 

From your description of your solder flow problems, it sounds to me that your soldering iron may not be producing enough heat to keep the solder melted enough to allow it to flow. In my experience a minimum of a 50w iron and 4mm tip are needed. The Antex 50w TCS with a 4mm tip is about the smallest iron I would consider using but if you can lay your hands on a 80w temperature controlled solder station, you will have a tool that should cope with anything you want it to do.

I am looking forward to seeing the rest of your build.

 

Kind regards

Sandy

 

 

A temperature controlled soldering iron which actually gives you the temperature of the tip (and not just some random number) would be ideal - not cheap, but if you do loads of soldering, it would be a worthwhile investment in tools.

 

 

I bought a second hand Antex 660TC with a 50W iron over the summer - I tend to have it at about 350 degrees for most work. I'm using a 2.3mm tip at the moment, which whilst fine for the smaller parts, I don't think it was big enough to retain the require head for the thicker parts such as the buffer beams (these were made from 2 lengths of laminate brass etch). I have a 4mm tip now, so I'll have a play around with that.

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First go at laminating today - the leaf springs are made up of 3 brass etches, with a fourth half-etch adding the detail. Not sure if I went a bit overkill with the solder; I tinned each surface first, before applying more flux and soldering round the edge of each layer. Seemed to work though, although it looks a bit clumsy in parts. Needs a bit more cleaning up with the file.

 

On question though: whilst cleaning up the solder on the footplate, the needle file causes some light scratching to the surface of the brass. You can see them on the photo below. They appear to be very shallow, but will it be noticeable after it's all been painted up, or should I try and smooth them out with various grades of wet&dry paper?

 

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post-32089-0-79343900-1505054021_thumb.jpg

 

post-32089-0-79070900-1505053801_thumb.jpg

Edited by jdb82
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This is a nice loco to build. I have done one the short tank version, I have a few build photos if you need a hand.

 

These were built with a flange less centre wheel. Don't know if you are going to bother with yours but I turned the flange off not sure if Slater's do one for it.

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This is a nice loco to build. I have done one the short tank version, I have a few build photos if you need a hand.

 

These were built with a flange less centre wheel. Don't know if you are going to bother with yours but I turned the flange off not sure if Slater's do one for it.

 

 

Hi Peter, any photos you have would be appreciate! Having some reference points would be really helpful. I have a few photos of the real thing found online, but not found much by way of kit pictures. 

 

I hadn't really thought about removing the flange....I need to keep things relatively simple on this one, but I'll definitely look to see if Slaters do one or not. Would be a good excuse for me to get a lathe though ;-)

Edited by jdb82
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First go at laminating today - the leaf springs are made up of 3 brass etches, with a fourth half-etch adding the detail. Not sure if I went a bit overkill with the solder; I tinned each surface first, before applying more flux and soldering round the edge of each layer. Seemed to work though, although it looks a bit clumsy in parts. Needs a bit more cleaning up with the file.

 

On question though: whilst cleaning up the solder on the footplate, the needle file causes some light scratching to the surface of the brass. You can see them on the photo below. They appear to be very shallow, but will it be noticeable after it's all been painted up, or should I try and smooth them out with various grades of wet&dry paper?

 

attachicon.gifIMG_5621.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_5632.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_5629.JPG

Minor scratches will usually not be seen once the undercoat is applied but they can be removed in a variety of ways. Wet and dry is the most obvious but also carborundum impregnated 3M scratch pads, Cardboard nail files (ask the wife first or buy your own!), rubber discs in the Dremel, but go carefully as they can remove quite a bit of brass if you use too much pressure.

Sandy

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First go at laminating today - the leaf springs are made up of 3 brass etches, with a fourth half-etch adding the detail. Not sure if I went a bit overkill with the solder; I tinned each surface first, before applying more flux and soldering round the edge of each layer. Seemed to work though, although it looks a bit clumsy in parts. Needs a bit more cleaning up with the file.

 

On question though: whilst cleaning up the solder on the footplate, the needle file causes some light scratching to the surface of the brass. You can see them on the photo below. They appear to be very shallow, but will it be noticeable after it's all been painted up, or should I try and smooth them out with various grades of wet&dry paper?

 

attachicon.gifIMG_5621.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_5632.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_5629.JPG

 

You shouldn't be using a file here, these scratches will be visible even after painting. If you have solder on a flat surface like this clean it off with a curved scraper, easily made from a piece of hacksaw blade ground square at the end with a slight curve. The curve is essential to avoid the corners digging in and making even deeper scratches.

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Spent quite a while trying to remove some of the scratches I'd foolishly put onto the footplate - now it looks much better. To speed the process up a bit, I, probably very unconventionally to the purist, adapted a sanding drum on my mini-drill and wrapped a strip of wet&dry paper to it, secured with a small blob of super glue. Set at about half speed, this took the tiniest amount of brass off the footplate, just about removing most of the scratches. Worked very nicely :-)

 

Next question is probably quite basic for someone with more loco knowledge than myself. At the bottom of the leaf springs, the instructions say to fit the rectangular bases. However it's not clear whether the flat surface goes at the top, or the bottom to form a kind of tray. Hopefully the photos below will help explain.....

 

post-32089-0-54415300-1505531784_thumb.jpg

These are the base plates for the leaf springs

 

post-32089-0-45396300-1505531851_thumb.jpg

​Should they go this way up........

 

post-32089-0-98139400-1505531883_thumb.jpg

Or this way?

 

Obviously nothing soldered yet! Look forwards to receiving your wise words of wisdom  :)

John

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Good work so far!

 

I guess they go the way of your second photo, i.e. Convex, but the answer has to be on a photo somewhere.

 

I do think your springs need a wee bit more attention on top. The problem with laminated springs is that they are typically laminated "the wrong way", in that the real spring comprises a series of more-or-less horizontal strips, but the typical model comprises a series of vertical "silhouettes". The trick is to make the latter look like the former, and that means that, in particular, the tops have to be really quite smooth, and I'd suggest that it's more important to polish out the edges of the laminations than to maintain the size, though you'd want to keep the shape as best you can.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Best

Simon

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Good work so far!

 

I guess they go the way of your second photo, i.e. Convex, but the answer has to be on a photo somewhere.

 

I do think your springs need a wee bit more attention on top. The problem with laminated springs is that they are typically laminated "the wrong way", in that the real spring comprises a series of more-or-less horizontal strips, but the typical model comprises a series of vertical "silhouettes". The trick is to make the latter look like the former, and that means that, in particular, the tops have to be really quite smooth, and I'd suggest that it's more important to polish out the edges of the laminations than to maintain the size, though you'd want to keep the shape as best you can.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Best

Simon

 

Very definitely helpful! I was thinking the same - they are attached quite well, so some polishing shouldn't be a problem :-) As for a photo, all the photos I have managed to find so far are all taken from below the level of the footplate, and therefore I can't tell which way up the base plates need to be :-( I'll keep looking

Edited by jdb82
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Don't be afraid to use sandpaper.

It's probably an anathema to engineers but damned useful as a flexible file.

 

I started using 320 grit wet & dry since I had several rolls in the workshop.

Rough enough to cut, yet fine enough to avoid serious scratching.

A quick wipe with a garryflex block will remove any marks it leaves.

 

Also watchmakers screwdrivers make good solder scratchers if you don't have any scrapers yet. ;)

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Don't be afraid to use sandpaper.

It's probably an anathema to engineers but damned useful as a flexible file.

I started using 320 grit wet & dry since I had several rolls in the workshop.

Rough enough to cut, yet fine enough to avoid serious scratching.

A quick wipe with a garryflex block will remove any marks it leaves.

Also watchmakers screwdrivers make good solder scratchers if you don't have any scrapers yet. ;)

 

Old needle filles, even the cheap ones, with the teeth ground off either on a stone or on wheel make excellent scrapers to peel excess solder off. I have a selection with different shapes on the end and sides to access even quite difficult areas.

However if you are going to paint the loco, and why not, you don't need to remove all the solder, just the lumps and fillets where you have been overgenerous.

 

Ian.

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Done a few bits of detailing this weekend - spent a bit of time on the springs, as suggested by Simon, and although you can't really tell from the photos below, they now look much better. Bit of solder from the front that needs removing, and then they'll be done. 

Constructed the oil pots and attached them to the running plate without any problems. The sand boxes were next - simple job of folding up and soldering together. All was very satisfying, until I came to solder these onto the running plate, and then I used way too much solder, which has left me with lots of cleaning up to do. 

Might need to do a different part of the build first though.....seem to have done a lot of cleaning up recently! I think it's fair to say I didn't give enough credit before starting this build, to how long this process takes! Lets say I'm learning to  be more careful to start with, to save myself time later.... Still, this model is all about teaching myself how to do things, and better to make the mistakes now than a couple of models down the line!

 

post-32089-0-57020900-1506223854_thumb.jpg

 

post-32089-0-64731400-1506223914_thumb.jpg

 

post-32089-0-95916600-1506223996_thumb.jpg

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Cleaning up...

 

The ideal solution is not to need to, by using only enough solder to fill the joint, plus whatever you need to wet the iron, and to apply it from a hidden surface.

 

This is a counsel of perfection, which despite a dozen or so brass locos, and similar numbers of coaches and wagons, I have yet to achieve, but towards which I strive... if you want to see "bl00dy h3ll, that's good", look for the Finney 7 threads on here and Western Thunder. An example here:- http://westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-next-project-b1.5991/page-7#post-153734

 

So what can we mere mortals do? A few suggestions, all of which I've tried over the years:

 

Firstly, put on as little as possible;

Cut small lengths of solder (say 1mm) and lay these against the joint, rather than using the reel

Use solder paste where it is appropriate

Apply the soldering iron from behind, whenever possible.

Good flux, clean metal, clean solder, hot iron.

Iron with lots of heat capacity. Decent size bit, ideally sharp, chisel edge.

 

Secondly, alternative heating;

Micro flame blowtorch / cook's blow lamp. Very effective when used with the short lengths of solder. Be careful of uneven heating causing buckling. Don't panic if it does. Unsolder (very quick!), clean up & try again.

RSU - resistance soldering unit. Allows you put huge heat into a very small area very quickly. Works well with short lengths of solder and solder paste. Also allows you to use the electrode to hold the item in place whilst the solder cools. Brilliant for lamp irons & similar fiddly bits.

 

Thirdly, getting it off;

Desolder braid - basically woven copper mesh, coated in flux. Apply with a hot iron, solder comes off the joint and into the braid, cools, cut it off & throw it away. Very effective, rather expensive, very easy to singe your fingers!

Desolder pump, apply to hot solder, trigger the pump, excess is drawn into the pump. Great if you've got a blob!

Fluxed bit of fret waste. You can sometimes draw off excess solder onto another piece of metal. Cheaper version of solder braid.

Fluxed surface of kit. You can draw a thick fillet of excess solder onto a flat part of the kit, it turns it silvery, but it's only a few atoms thick, and won't show through the paint.

 

Fourthly, cleaning up;

Scrapers are better than files. Files clog and mark the work, Scrapers can be bought (dental tools are perfect) or ground up from any hard metal, such as a broken needle file (safety glasses!), old hacksaw blades, etc. Even a "sharpened screwdriver" will work pretty well as solder is very soft. Curved scalpel blades work well too.

Glass fibre pen/pencil. Brilliant. But do it outside, otherwise you'll have shards of glass on your workbench, and in your hands, and it hurts. Don't breathe the broken glass dust either. Ideally, wear a space suit...

Toothbrush & Shiny Sinks (or Vim, any scouring cream / powder of your choice) & rinse in hot water.

Ultrasonic bath, expensive. Effective.

 

Hope this helps

Best

Simon

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Cleaning up...

 

The ideal solution is not to need to, by using only enough solder to fill the joint, plus whatever you need to wet the iron, and to apply it from a hidden surface.

 

This is a counsel of perfection, which despite a dozen or so brass locos, and similar numbers of coaches and wagons, I have yet to achieve, but towards which I strive... if you want to see "bl00dy h3ll, that's good", look for the Finney 7 threads on here and Western Thunder. An example here:- http://westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-next-project-b1.5991/page-7#post-153734

 

So what can we mere mortals do? A few suggestions, all of which I've tried over the years:

 

Firstly, put on as little as possible;

Cut small lengths of solder (say 1mm) and lay these against the joint, rather than using the reel

Use solder paste where it is appropriate

Apply the soldering iron from behind, whenever possible.

Good flux, clean metal, clean solder, hot iron.

Iron with lots of heat capacity. Decent size bit, ideally sharp, chisel edge.

 

Secondly, alternative heating;

Micro flame blowtorch / cook's blow lamp. Very effective when used with the short lengths of solder. Be careful of uneven heating causing buckling. Don't panic if it does. Unsolder (very quick!), clean up & try again.

RSU - resistance soldering unit. Allows you put huge heat into a very small area very quickly. Works well with short lengths of solder and solder paste. Also allows you to use the electrode to hold the item in place whilst the solder cools. Brilliant for lamp irons & similar fiddly bits.

 

Thirdly, getting it off;

Desolder braid - basically woven copper mesh, coated in flux. Apply with a hot iron, solder comes off the joint and into the braid, cools, cut it off & throw it away. Very effective, rather expensive, very easy to singe your fingers!

Desolder pump, apply to hot solder, trigger the pump, excess is drawn into the pump. Great if you've got a blob!

Fluxed bit of fret waste. You can sometimes draw off excess solder onto another piece of metal. Cheaper version of solder braid.

Fluxed surface of kit. You can draw a thick fillet of excess solder onto a flat part of the kit, it turns it silvery, but it's only a few atoms thick, and won't show through the paint.

 

Fourthly, cleaning up;

Scrapers are better than files. Files clog and mark the work, Scrapers can be bought (dental tools are perfect) or ground up from any hard metal, such as a broken needle file (safety glasses!), old hacksaw blades, etc. Even a "sharpened screwdriver" will work pretty well as solder is very soft. Curved scalpel blades work well too.

Glass fibre pen/pencil. Brilliant. But do it outside, otherwise you'll have shards of glass on your workbench, and in your hands, and it hurts. Don't breathe the broken glass dust either. Ideally, wear a space suit...

Toothbrush & Shiny Sinks (or Vim, any scouring cream / powder of your choice) & rinse in hot water.

Ultrasonic bath, expensive. Effective.

 

Hope this helps

Best

Simon

 

Thanks Simon, I love this forum! A wealth of information everywhere you turn! 

I'll definitely get some scrapers - I've been using a curved craft knife blade, but I'm still finding that I'm scratching the brass. De-soldering braid sounds like a must too, so I'll get some when I'm back in the UK next. I will also endeavour to use less solder! I've kept telling myself that from the start, but not following my own advice!

 

The back of the cab and the tank sides are next on the instruction list, although it will probably be the weekend before I get my hands on it again......work gets in the way!

John

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