Simond Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 My tuppenceworth. Fill the smokebox door with solder (lots of aggressive flux and wash well afterwards!) and polish back, and use low-melt screw or glue to attach it. Synthetic fillers will work fine, it’s just my preference, but you’d definitely have to glue (or screw) it on. For the back of the smokebox, I’d cut a bit of fret waste to fit to the underside of the boiler, and then file it back to match the saddle. Again, personal preference, you could use plasticard & epoxy. HTH Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 My tuppenceworth. Fill the smokebox door with solder (lots of aggressive flux and wash well afterwards!) and polish back, and use low-melt screw or glue to attach it. Synthetic fillers will work fine, it’s just my preference, but you’d definitely have to glue (or screw) it on. For the back of the smokebox, I’d cut a bit of fret waste to fit to the underside of the boiler, and then file it back to match the saddle. Again, personal preference, you could use plasticard & epoxy. HTH Simon I'll go for the solder option with the blemish in the door I reckon. The more I work with it, the more I like the stuff! I actually soldered the door onto the front of the smokebox - I was fairly careful, and it did take a while, but after a bit of work with wet & dry paper, all looked good. I think the making of a new saddle might be the way forwards, but out of brass, not plasticard.....not going to find much of that out here, so I'll bring a stock back with me when I come home for Christmas. The profile of the curve isn't bad, it just needs to be higher up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Managed to get back to the workbench this weekend after a couple of busy weeks at work. Solved the smokebox saddle wrapper issue by adding a strip of brass to the bottom of the etch, which affectively pushed the curve up to the bottom of the smokebox. It's not the smoothest join ever, but it's out of sight unless you turn the body upside down and look for it. Some of the short tank Hudswell Clarke, had tank top extensions to cover the gap between the top of the tank and the boiler. My model is also to have these, and so I knocked some up from waste etch as they were not provided with the kit. These were soldered on with a deliberate 'join' visible, as on the prototype they were an additional plate, resting on brackets on the tank. Next, the boiler assembly was soldered to the footplate and up against the cab front. A bit of cleaning up was needed here. I was unsure whether to solder or Araldite the smokebox end to the footplate.....I knew that it would be difficult to solder cleanly from the front (there was no access from the back), but wasn't sure if Araldite would be strong enough in the long run, so soldered it on in the end. Still need a little more cleaning up, but I think it will look OK eventually. Not sure if this was the right way to go or not. Last job for the weekend was fitting the handrail. This is a one-piece rail that runs from the tanks, and curves round the front of the smokebox, following it's profile. It took me quite a long time and a couple of wasted pieces of wire before I got it right. These extra details as they are added to the basic structure are really starting to bring the model to life now. More detailing is next up - I had a look at the clack valves. Unfortunately, the castings in the kit are not the correct ones for the prototype. Even then, they are pretty poor quality, so I need to either source some others (which would mean waiting to complete this detailing until I return to the UK over Christmas), or attempt to make my own. I will probably plump for the latter option, as I'd like to get the bodywork done before then! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) Spent a bit of time 'pondering' yesterday evening, and cleaning up a few castings such as the chimney, dome and safety valves. I'm getting to the stage where I need to add all the pipework on top of the boiler & tanks. I'm very much looking forwards to this stage, but I'm not sure whether I should add all the pipework yet, or wait until it's painted. I like the idea of being able to solder everything in - it gives things a greater sense of permanence (in my mind, although I realise this is not necessarily true!), but this will make painting very awkward if I add it all at this stage. Alternatively, do I try and reign in my natural impatience, wait until after painting, and then epoxy them? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated Photo below is what I'm aiming for. Edited November 17, 2017 by jdb82 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted November 17, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2017 Spent a bit of time 'pondering' yesterday evening, and cleaning up a few castings such as the chimney, dome and safety valves. I'm getting to the stage where I need to add all the pipework on top of the boiler & tanks. I'm very much looking forwards to this stage, but I'm not sure whether I should add all the pipework yet, or wait until it's painted. I like the idea of being able to solder everything in - it gives things a greater sense of permanence (in my mind, although I realise this is not necessarily true!), but this will make painting very awkward if I add it all at this stage. Alternatively, do I try and reign in my natural impatience, wait until after painting, and then epoxy them? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated Photo below is what I'm aiming for. gothenburg copy.jpg It depends how experienced you are at painting and how pristine the finished model will be. If you want the model pristine and you are not very experienced at painting, I would leave off as much as you can, to avoid paint bouncing off the pipework and leaving a gritty or "fizzy" shadow on the boiler and elsewhere, where pipes and other features get in the way of applying a smooth coat. (This is assuming you use an airbrush.) There are ways round this, and Ian Rathbone's book details them, but as a mere mortal I tend to leave things like handrails and Westinghouse plumbing off until after painting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Handrails I would not worry about, but the sandboxes next to the smokebox will be challenging I cannot reasonably claim to stick to it but the maxim of "don't solder when you could screw and don't glue where you could solder" seems like good sense Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 It depends how experienced you are at painting and how pristine the finished model will be. If you want the model pristine and you are not very experienced at painting, I would leave off as much as you can, to avoid paint bouncing off the pipework and leaving a gritty or "fizzy" shadow on the boiler and elsewhere, where pipes and other features get in the way of applying a smooth coat. (This is assuming you use an airbrush.) There are ways round this, and Ian Rathbone's book details them, but as a mere mortal I tend to leave things like handrails and Westinghouse plumbing off until after painting. Unfortunately, not experienced at all ;-) This'll be my first one, so thanks for the advice. I would love to get everything on there first, but need to restrain myself! I'll get a copy of Ian Rathbone's book, as I have seen him mentioned before on other threads. Handrails I would not worry about, but the sandboxes next to the smokebox will be challenging I cannot reasonably claim to stick to it but the maxim of "don't solder when you could screw and don't glue where you could solder" seems like good sense Best Simon Mmmmm.....hadn't even considered the sandboxes! I could take them off, but risk making a bit of a mess if I do. I might just have to work around these somehow. I guess blindly following the instructions is not always the best way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Perhaps a bit "after the horse has bolted" but I try to solder boilers & fireboxes together, and cabs & footplates ditto. I then screw the cab to the firebox and the footplate to the smokebox, which means they can be separated for painting. The screws are hidden by the back head, which I build as a subassembly with the cab footplate (and crew) It's more difficult with a tank loco of course, and proved "impossible" with my latest, a dukedog, as the smokebox wrapper is integral with the footplate. Well, I'm sure it could have been done, but the cost in time and effort didn't merit it. In this case I think I would have tried to fit the sandboxes with screws rom below. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 Perhaps a bit "after the horse has bolted" but I try to solder boilers & fireboxes together, and cabs & footplates ditto. I then screw the cab to the firebox and the footplate to the smokebox, which means they can be separated for painting. The screws are hidden by the back head, which I build as a subassembly with the cab footplate (and crew) It's more difficult with a tank loco of course, and proved "impossible" with my latest, a dukedog, as the smokebox wrapper is integral with the footplate. Well, I'm sure it could have been done, but the cost in time and effort didn't merit it. In this case I think I would have tried to fit the sandboxes with screws rom below. Best Simon All good info for the next one! i knew when I started that I'd make mistakes - in fact that's why I started with this particular loco..... purely to teach myself the do's and don'ts before starting on something a bit more layout-specific. I'll definitely go for screwing various elements together next time. Makes total sense. Do you need to make many adjustments to the kit when doing this, or is it just a case of drilling a hole and soldering on a nut? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 You can drill & tap or solder on a nut. A set of small taps & dies is worth acquiring if you’re doing a spot of loco building. BA is traditional, metric is cheaper. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Just had a look, Tracy Tools do have loose carbon steel BA taps & dies, which will be fine for cutting brass, you can splash out on HSS when you’ve broken a few cheap ones! BA nuts & screws are widely available down to 10BA, and reasonably cheap. Smaller sizes (higher numbers) get pricy. HSS metric taps & dies are very expensive in the sub 2mm sizes, but the screws and nuts may be cheaper. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Just had a look, Tracy Tools do have loose carbon steel BA taps & dies, which will be fine for cutting brass, you can splash out on HSS when you’ve broken a few cheap ones! BA nuts & screws are widely available down to 10BA, and reasonably cheap. Smaller sizes (higher numbers) get pricy. HSS metric taps & dies are very expensive in the sub 2mm sizes, but the screws and nuts may be cheaper. Best Simon Actually, I think you'll find that the carbon steel taps and dies are rather better for our purposes, as we have no need for high speed steel - we'll always be tapping by hand, surely, so nothing is going to become that hot? The carbon steel taps and dies keep their edges well and, apart from 'snapping' them through misuse, they last a long time even with a fair bit of use (in brass). David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Thanks David, I didn’t see any taps other than HSS in sub 2mm, do you have preferred sources? Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I didn’t see any taps other than HSS in sub 2mm, do you have preferred sources? I also use Tracy Tools for taps and dies. However, as I am a bit of a tool-nut, I have been picking up such things from ME shows for over forty years now so it is rare that I need to buy a tap these days. I think carbon steel taps and dies are not so common now, especially in the smaller sizes. As an aside, for drills, I would definitely recommend buying decent offerings, rather than buying from a typical trader at shows, at a slightly higher cost. I thoroughly recommend The Drill Service. Visiting their website is a bit like going into a large city department store when you are more used to going into the village shop but, for drills, it's most likely 'HSS jobber drills' that we're after: www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=020080440000&Tool=394 Do not be frightened by the you-cannot-be-serious prices of the tiny weeny drills at the top of the list (The Drill Service are specialists in micro drilling); moving down the list, a 1mm diameter drill is £1.33, for example. These drills are sharp and hard, unlike cheaper drills (and sets) that are available, and will last without breaking off in the whole, if you treat them properly. The Drill Service does offer taps but they are expensive unless you are going into serious tapping on production: www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=180020000000&Tool=416 I keep my best taps for brass and then cascade them down for steel (not that I tap steel with small threads if I can help it). David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 I didn’t see any taps other than HSS in sub 2mm, do you have preferred sources? I also use Tracy Tools for taps and dies. However, as I am a bit of a tool-nut, I have been picking up such things from ME shows for over forty years now so it is rare that I need to buy a tap these days. I think carbon steel taps and dies are not so common now, especially in the smaller sizes. As an aside, for drills, I would definitely recommend buying decent offerings, rather than buying from a typical trader at shows, at a slightly higher cost. I thoroughly recommend The Drill Service. Visiting their website is a bit like going into a large city department store when you are more used to going into the village shop but, for drills, it's most likely 'HSS jobber drills' that we're after: www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=020080440000&Tool=394 Do not be frightened by the you-cannot-be-serious prices of the tiny weeny drills at the top of the list (The Drill Service are specialists in micro drilling); moving down the list, a 1mm diameter drill is £1.33, for example. These drills are sharp and hard, unlike cheaper drills (and sets) that are available, and will last without breaking off in the whole, if you treat them properly. The Drill Service does offer taps but they are expensive unless you are going into serious tapping on production: www.drill-service.co.uk/Product.asp?Parent=180020000000&Tool=416 I keep my best taps for brass and then cascade them down for steel (not that I tap steel with small threads if I can help it). David Mmmmmm.....I think this drill-service.co.uk might be providing some things to fill Santa's sack this year ;-) Thanks for the info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) Impatience won out, and I have started the pipework on top of the tanks and boiler - I'll post some photos when I've got a bit further with it. These are not provided with the kit, and the various lengths of nickel silver wire were all either too thick or too thin. So I've straightened out some electrical wire (thanks Peter - N15Class - for your uber-helpful scratch building thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100390-scratch-building-the-way-i-do-it/page-3 post #69), and used a few spares from the off-cuts box. Coming along nicely. The right hand side (as you look from the cab) will be fully detailed, but nowhere have I found any photos of the left of the loco. Not a clue what's up on top on the left hand side of the loco, so if anyone has any photos that can help, it would be much appreciated :-) Edited November 27, 2017 by jdb82 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted November 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2017 Thanks David, I didn’t see any taps other than HSS in sub 2mm, do you have preferred sources? Best Simon Hi I have this set http://www.bergentoolsdirect.co.uk/product/31pc-metric-tap-and-die-set-m1-m2-5-2545/ Cheers Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Well, nobody could argue with the cost. How would you rate them, Paul? David I have this sethttp://www.bergentoolsdirect.co.uk/product/31pc-metric-tap-and-die-set-m1-m2-5-2545 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted November 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2017 Well, nobody could argue with the cost. How would you rate them, Paul? David Hi I've not had them long but I have cut several threads with the M2 tap and die. Can't fault them on brass. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 2, 2017 Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 Progress! Lots of little bits over the last couple of weeks that individually, didn't seem worth writing about or photographing. The tank tops and boiler were all soldered together to the cab front The dome and safety valves were soldered on, as I still has access from below the boiler for these. The castings were a pretty large heat sink, particularly the dome, and so the temperature needed to be cranked right up on the soldering iron - perhaps a little too high as I could see the element starting to glow.... As I said in my previous post, patience is not always a strength of mine, and so I decided to add the pipework details at this stage, rather than wait until after painting. Connecting plates, and taps were all added using straightened out electrical wire, some waste etch and a spare casting to try and replicate the photo in post #54. Need a bit more cleaning up around where the pipes enter the tanks, but other than that, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome Next, I Araldited the chimney on to the smokebox, and bent & riveted the cab roof. Rain strips were carefully soldered on to the sides. Once I knew how far the roof overhung the cab, I soldered on the whistle to the front of the cab. The roof just placed on the cab in the photos, as obviously I still need to paint and fit all the cab details in place. Just the buffers & coupling hooks to add to the buffer plates, and then onto the chassis, which I've been putting off for a while now 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 Coupling hooks have been laminated and attached, along with the buffers. Also soldered in the bearings to the chassis sides. I have a master chassis jig from Hobby Holidays, and this is the first time I have used it. I won't be soldering the frames together until I have laminated the coupling rods, as these are used to determine the exact position of each of the dummy axels on the jig. Just out of curiosity, I tried to slide one of the frame sides onto the jig, but found it to be an extremely tight fit, to the point where the frame was wanting to bend.....I thought better of forcing it! No matter how much I adjusted the position, even by minute amounts, I couldn't seem to find a location where it slid on easily. I'm not sure if this a result of me not yet locating them using the coupling rods, inaccuracy in the etch, a tight bearing (I haven't reamed them yet), or a problem with the jig (highly unlikely....hopefully!). My plan is to do the rods sometime this week and take it from there. Hopefully I'll not need to unsolder the bearings, as I made quite a neat job of them (for me anyway!!). 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 If you don’t mind the suggestion, the coupling hooks would look finer and work even better if you file them to provide a rounded an inverted V, sort of /\, but not so sharp and with a wider, blunter point. This really is a rather nice Model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Worth looking at a few photos, coupling hooks are quite subtly shaped in both plan and front view. (Rant-mode / on) And they’re never brass coloured, despite appearing so on legions of otherwise beautifully finished models (Rant-mode / off) It’s also worth persevering with the axle bearing locations. They must match the rods, so if the rods fit the jig, and the frames don’t, you’ll have to unsolder and resolder. Not sure how your jig is made, but if you can somehow wangle the frames on, and then briefly touch the bearings with the blowlamp, to melt the solder, they might just nicely shift and settle with the right spacing. The trick here is to hit it very quickly with the heat, so the frames themselves do not expand, then contract after the solder has solidified, and thus make the centres too close. Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 If you don’t mind the suggestion, the coupling hooks would look finer and work even better if you file them to provide a rounded an inverted V, sort of /\, but not so sharp and with a wider, blunter point. This really is a rather nice Model. Thanks for the compliment, and thanks for the advice too..... been looking at so many photos of pipework recently that I must admit it didn't even cross my mind to look at the hooks. I'll jump onto it this week. Worth looking at a few photos, coupling hooks are quite subtly shaped in both plan and front view. (Rant-mode / on) And they’re never brass coloured, despite appearing so on legions of otherwise beautifully finished models (Rant-mode / off) It’s also worth persevering with the axle bearing locations. They must match the rods, so if the rods fit the jig, and the frames don’t, you’ll have to unsolder and resolder. Not sure how your jig is made, but if you can somehow wangle the frames on, and then briefly touch the bearings with the blowlamp, to melt the solder, they might just nicely shift and settle with the right spacing. The trick here is to hit it very quickly with the heat, so the frames themselves do not expand, then contract after the solder has solidified, and thus make the centres too close. Best Simon Simon, thanks for the advice. I'll see what happens once I've got the rods made up, but I like the idea of unsoldering/resoldering on the jig - hadn't thought of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdb82 Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 A packed diary and a 3 week trip back to the UK in a weeks time (via Dubai for a few days to take in some world class badminton) means that work on the Hudswell Clarke will most likely have to stop until after Christmas. Ever the impatient though, I can't quite stop myself planning ahead to the next few stages. First off, the coupling rods. I haven't yet laminated these, but I wonder whether it is best to articulate them on the centre wheel, or to solder them together to form a rigid coupling rod? I'm deliberately keeping the chassis very simple - no compensation or springing - just a rigid chassis. I'm perhaps jumping the gun a little here as I haven't yet sorted the chassis out (see my previous post). The next couple of questions are born out of necessity, as I need to buy paints and equipment in the UK, as I can't get them here in Brunei. I would like to invest in an airbrush - I've seen some good things written in the forums on RMweb about Harder & Steenbeck. Thanks to my birthday being quite close to Christmas, I have a top end budget of about £100-£120, which should be enough for a decent bit of kit. Even though I'm a Yorkshireman, I don't mind spending a bit more if it will be of benefit in the future. 'Tis a good incentive to develop my skills in airbrushing, as currently, I've never even help one before!! Apologies if I'm incredibly naive here, but I'd like it to be able to spray anything from a wide area for the primer coats, to fine lines for detailing. Does that exist?! Lastly, I need to buy paint to bring back with me. Which means I need to make my mind up what livery to choose. When I first started this, it was purely a kit that I was going to teach myself the basics of kit-building. However, the further I have got with it, the more I have found myself looking at photos to make sure it's 'right'. I could go for the green livery and model the preserved version of 'Gothenburg' below (although I believe it's currently in Thomas blue ready for the Christmas season, which I have no intention of recreating!). Another option, and perhaps one that I'm favouring at the moment, is to model an early 1900's working prototype to enable me to weather it....I do like a well-weathered loco. Is there anybody out there who knows much (anything) about the MSC Railway? Obviously all the photos are in black and white - I'm assuming that they were in black, but not sure what colour they were lined in....indeed it seems that some weren't lined at all, although this could leave the model looking very plain. Any thoughts on the above? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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