16T Mineral Wagons in O Gauge

[Focalplane]

While chatting to Dapol staff on Saturday Sept 2nd, I picked up a one page flyer for proposed 16 ton mineral wagons.  But I can find nothing about them on Dapol's website nor on Tower Models website.  And a search on RMWeb has not turned up anything either.

 

The flyer lists 12 variants and says that the models are expected Q1 2018.  Sales price is £45.00

 

This is indeed good news for BR modellers in O Gauge.  Does anyone have more information they can share?

[DavidM]

It Looks like the old Lionheart ones now under Dapols brand. They're on Hatton's and a few other websites

[gardenwall]

While chatting to Dapol staff on Saturday Sept 2nd, I picked up a one page flyer for proposed 16 ton mineral wagons.  But I can find nothing about them on Dapol's website nor on Tower Models website.  And a search on RMWeb has not turned up anything either.

 

The flyer lists 12 variants and says that the models are expected Q1 2018.  Sales price is £45.00

 

This is indeed good news for BR modellers in O Gauge.  Does anyone have more information they can share?

I imagine that this will be a re-issue of the Lionheart 16t mineral wagons, good models.  Some info here http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/2307_1_108142369.html 

[Focalplane]

Having bought a Lionheart B Set I should have thought about that possibility!  Thank you.

[Great Western]

Listed on the hattons website, hopefully they'll have there three links attached to the draw hock rather than lose in the box like 10 of my 12 I brought last year.

[The Ghost of IKB]

Putting couplings onto the hook! What an outrage! Surely beyond most of us average modellers, who dont have the benefit of specialist equipment.

Sorry to be so sarcastic, but is that really worth moaning about? Good God.

[Dava]

Good to see them but expensive in my opinion if you want several. I've collected 3 assorted kits and a built brass one at GOG events for GBP 15-25

Each to his own.

 

Dava

 

[delticfan]

The ones in the hattons pics look of riveted construction, is that correct or just a random photo which has been used. I was hoping for the welded construction to match the lionheart ones.

[Hal Nail]

Lionheart did riveted and welded variants

Edited September 30, 2017 by Hal Nail

[brossard]

Riveted are dia 1/109.  About 25,000 were built by contractors who weren't any good at welding.    There were around 250,000 welded dia 1/108 built.  I just made 1 of each using a MMP body and Peco chassis.  The LH/Dapol products would have been a darn sight easier.

 

John

[Focalplane]

I am slowly coming to realize that the additional cost of a Dapol/Lionheart wagon is well worth it as a time saver.  I have to scratch build all the structures on my layout as nothing RTP comes close to the prototype, whereas a mineral wagon is basically a mineral wagon (welded or riveted) and all I have to do is weather the wagons straight out of the box.

[brossard]

I agree Paul, RTR is a great time saver (and when you get to a certain age, time is priceless).  There are a surprising variety of steel minerals though.  I made a LMS dia 2134 from the Parkside 1/108 kit and a LMS dia 2109 from an MMP body and Peco chassis (these are really quite good BTW).  Neither of these are otherwise available AFIK.  The thing I wanted to do was to represent the scrofulous finish that most steel wagons had and I thought that was best achieved by painting the bodies from scratch.

 

P1010001-007 by John Kendall, on Flickr

 

John

Edited September 30, 2017 by brossard

[delticfan]

Riveted are dia 1/109.  About 25,000 were built by contractors who weren't any good at welding.    There were around 250,000 welded dia 1/108 built.  I just made 1 of each using a MMP body and Peco chassis.  The LH/Dapol products would have been a darn sight easier.

 

John

I think the hattons ones are pictured riveted but are described as 108. I agree either version much easier / cheaper to buy ready made, gives you more time to build other things. Thanks for the info on the different diagrams.

[9430]

You are all now probably aware that they are on Tower's website.

 

Listed at £38.50 and with the Peco/Parkside one at £33.00 it really is a no brainer.

 

Regards Tim.

Edited February 17, 2018 by 9430

[Western Star]

There are photos of all of the recent releases on the Tower Models website and the descriptions for the welded body versions list several shades of grey:-

 

* BR blue-grey;

* BR grey;

* BR later grey;

* BR lighter grey.

 

Assuming that these descriptions are close to being accurate, what is the most likely order of introduction of the different colours? If possible, what is the earliest date for each of the model options?

 

Thank you, Graham

[Hal Nail]

There are photos of all of the recent releases on the Tower Models website and the descriptions for the welded body versions list several shades of grey:-

 

* BR blue-grey;

* BR grey;

* BR later grey;

* BR lighter grey.

 

Assuming that these descriptions are close to being accurate, what is the most likely order of introduction of the different colours? If possible, what is the earliest date for each of the model options?

 

Thank you, Graham

There are whole threads on this which usually get heated! Wagon grey may, or may not, have changed in the early 60s. The larger more comprehensive data panels are definitely the later type though! Edited September 21, 2018 by Hal Nail

[JelleJan]

I noticed that both Lionheart and Dapol made the wagons without top flap only in a post steam era lettering. However, railway photographs incidently show wagons without top flap between 1960 and 1965. Are these early ones different in details? Otherwise it would be nice to have one or two in my mineral rake...

 

Jelle Jan

Edited December 16, 2018 by JelleJan

[Fat Controller]

I noticed that both Lionheart and Dapol made the wagons without top flap only in a post steam era lettering. However, railway photographs incidently show wagons without top flap between 1960 and 1965. Are these early ones different in details? Otherwise it would be nice to have one or two in my mineral rake...

 

Jelle Jan

There were some of the original Diagrams that didn't have top flaps (sometimes known as 'London Merchants' Doors'); these were various builds for the MoS, MoWT and others. generally they had bottom doors and independent brakes, unlike the Morton brake fitted to later builds. The ones with post-1964 lettering would be rebuilt wagons  on older chassis; the bodies only had a design life of 20 years, the underframe twice that. I think the rebuilding programme started in the late 1960s, but precisely when, I couldn't say. The rebuilds often had a rounded bottom to the sides, and the orientation of end door, and the side fitted with brakes , was random.

[JelleJan]

Thanks for the information, Brian, everything clear now.

 

Jelle Jan

[Hal Nail]

I've just bought a couple of the fitted types and the brake cylinder arrangement looks backwards to me - it would pull the brakes off, not crank them on? Anyone able to verify if they are correct as modelled?

[brossard]

I don't know the wagon in question and if it is Dapol's Dia 108 vac fitted model, the photos on Hatton's website aren't very clear as to the underframe/brake arrangement.  Perhaps a picture of the model's U/F would help.  I have a very old Precision kit that I'm going to start soon and found some good pictures on Paul Bartlett's website.  This one in particular may be very useful:

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralclaspvb

 

John

[Hal Nail]

Thanks, interesting as those photos of the 1950s builds are the clasp type. I'll post some photos later but the Dia 108 fitted model is the same type as the 10 ft Dapol underframe with one simple lever attached directly to the crank to turn it clockwise and one with the double crank to turn it anti clockwise - but the cylinder is unusually on the double crank side and would rotate the main shaft the wrong way.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Hal Nail

[Fat Controller]

54 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Thanks, interesting as those photos of the 1950s builds are the clasp type. I'll post some photos later but the Dia 108 fitted model is the same type as the 10 ft Dapol underframe with one simple lever attached directly to the crank to turn it clockwise and one with the double crank to turn it anti clockwise - but the cylinder is unusually on the double crank side and would rotate the main shaft the wrong way.

The wagons fitted from new in the 1950s almost invariably had 8 shoe brakegear with a lifting link (as well as two vacuum cylinders) The exception was a Lot of 100 or so, built for trials by Westinghouse, which had something resembling the LMS fully-fitted style.

From the early 1960s, there was a drive to fit unfitted stock with vac brakes; vehicles had tie-bars between axleguards, as well as extension collars welded to the buffer stocks.

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

The wagons fitted from new in the 1950s almost invariably had 8 shoe brakegear with a lifting link (as well as two vacuum cylinders)

Thanks, that helps. I actually wanted unfitted really but since Rails had these ones at a such a good price, I thought the bauxite was a useful base for rust patches. I'll modify them back to one sided unfitted.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Hal Nail

[brossard]

I'm surprised that Dapol got this wagon so wrong.  You don't have to look far to find the right information.  If I can find it, surely Dapol can.

 

John